A Question for Creationists

[Loudmouth]

Right but the DNA identifies them as the same species.

Our DNA identifies us as an ape, as a primate, as a mammal, and as a vertebrate in the same way.

The DNA from a chimp will identify it as a differen species.

Why can't DNA be used to determine if two species share a common ancestor?

You don't seem to understand that DNA identifes "kinds" of the same species and it also identifies species that are a different "kind." It cleary tells us the cats and dogs are different kinds. Plants also have DNA, are we descended from them also?

How does DNA show that cats and dogs are different kinds?

Also, we are are no more descended from plants than you are a descendant of your 2nd cousins. We share a common ancestor, but are not descended from plants.

 

[lasthero]

What evidence do you have for the BB?

Cosmic microwave background radiation.

Remember, in another topic, that you said the Nobel Prize was given to scientists who 'proved' something? Well, that's not how it works, but assume it does, for a moment. Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson discovered an omnidirectional signal in the microwave band - radiation that was found to be consistent with an almost perfect black body spectrum in all directions.

This was a prediction of the Big Bang model. Discovering it earned Penzias and Wilson a Nobel Prize.

 

[mzungu]

The problem is you can not get a perfecdt vacuum.

First of all define what you mean by perfect vacuum. If you mean an airless medium then you are wrong. All you need to do is take a glass tube that is sealed on one end, and fill it with mercury then quickly tip the open end into a basin with mercury. The mercury in the tube will drop to the point where the space created will be a perfect vacuum as there was no air inside to begin with. As for a perfect vacuum without particles then this is impossible unless you can shield the container but neutrinos will still be able to pass through.

Irrelevant until you can prove something can come intoeistenc from nothing



Do you ever provide the source so we cn check it for accuracyd?



Why is it relevant. You cna' prove it is a mechanim for evolution.

It is obvious that no matter what evidence is brought forth you will dismiss it without giving it a thought. This is common with people who do not have the pertinent knowledge of the subject at hand. There is a Christians only section in CF where you can preach all you want amongst like minded people.

 

[Loudmouth]

Those are inferences of the data and mistaking full ape fossils to hybrid human/ape fossils. Not evidence.

What features would a fossil need in order for you to accept it as being transitional between humans and a common ancestor with chimps?

I am not running away from anything. Just disagreeing with it. Like that is some sort of taboo or something.....

You are giving no reason for the disagreement other than the facts contradicting your beliefs.

 

[Loudmouth]

Do you have any evidence that everything we see did?

What evidence do you have that God designed anything?

 

[OllieFranz]

How arerogant, insulting and self serving. We do analogies probabaly better than you do becaue the Bible has many type of figurative language and we put soem tgiem in studyidng wha they mean. The problem is that evo, mix apples and oranges with the attempt with analogies.

Right back at you. I can point to specific posts where Creationists or other conservative/fundamentalist Christian posters mistook metaphors so common as to be practically cliches. Can you?

And speaking of arrogant, insulting and self-serving, many of those same posters assume that criticsm of their debate style and lack of adequate training (for example, pointing out classic logical fallacies that they committed) is nothing more than a personal insult, and so they start throwing around technical debate terms as insults, regardless of whether or not the meaning of those terms fits their use of the term.

It seems strange that in a Christian forum anyone would object to you quoting a Bible verse. I see it done many times here. There must be more to it than that. Is there any way you could allude what it was to me? Mabye just book, chapter and verse would get past the staff.

Matthew 7:1-5

I was comparing it to Romans 2:1-3 and Ephesians 2:8. To make a point about something we are specifically told we are not qualified to judge.

Based on the rule the mod quoted, the best I can figure is that the post was reported by someone convinced I only quoted it for the first part of verse 5

 

[bhsmte]

What features would a fossil need in order for you to accept it as being transitional between humans and a common ancestor with chimps?


You are giving no reason for the disagreement other than the facts contradicting your beliefs.

Disagreeing because it goes against their beliefs, is a quite powerful reason to disagree, for some.

 

[Loudmouth]

The cause is the evidence.

God is the cause. The cause is God. Therefore the cause is the evidence of God.

Joe is the plumber. The plumber is Joe. Therefore the plumber is the evidence of Joe.

Find the plumber and you will find Joe.

I found fossils, but lo and behold no deity.

 

[OllieFranz]

Right but the DNA identifies them as the same species. The DNA from a chimp will identify it as a differen species.

You don't seem to understand that DNA identifes "kinds" of the same species and it also identifies species that are a different "kind." It cleary tells us the cats and dogs are different kinds. Plants also have DNA, are we descended from them also?

Do you have any documentation to back up these claims? If you do, then you should be able to answer these questions.

Are Herring Gulls and Black-backed Gulls one kind or two?

Are Eastern Greenish Warblers and Western Greenish Warblers one kind or two?

Are Abert's Squirrels and Kaibert Squirrels one kind or two?

Are horses and donkeys one kind or two?

Are lions and leopards one kind or two? If they are one kind, are African leopards and snow leopards one kind or two? If lions and leopards are two kinds, are African lions and Asian lions one kind or two?

Are camels and llamas one kind or two?

 

[Doveaman]

That is really bad reasoning.

I think it’s pretty good, actually.

I could find a plumber that happens not to be Joe. I could find a Joe who isn't a plumber. The evidence for Joe being a plumber or a plumber being called Joe comes from elsewhere, not from some intrinsic connection between the concepts 'Joe' and 'plumber'.

There is only one “Joe the plumber”.

 

[Doveaman]

I found fossils, but lo and behold no deity.

You need to find the cause of matter/energy.

Find the cause and you will find God, because God is the cause.

 

[CabVet]

You need to find the cause of matter/energy.

Find the cause and you will find God, because God is the cause.

And since everything needs a cause, the cause of God is... Oh, wait.

 

[Loudmouth]

You need to find the cause of matter/energy.

Find the cause and you will find God, because God is the cause.

Where is your evidence that God is the cause?

 

[bhsmte]

Where is your evidence that God is the cause?

The bible.

All of it's assumptions have been rigorously tested.

 

[CabVet]

The bible.

All of it's assumptions have been rigorously tested.

And why do you trust the Bible? (let the circle begin).

 

[bhsmte]

And why do you trust the Bible? (let the circle begin).

Because it says to, or I will be doomed for eternity.

 

[Split Rock]

You need to find the cause of matter/energy.

Find the cause and you will find God, because God is the cause.

And since everything needs a cause, the cause of God is... Oh, wait.

You forget the Special Pleading argument that God is the one exception.

 

[EternalDragon]

You forget the Special Pleading argument that God is the one exception.

Wait...did matter and energy always exist or was there a time before the big bang that nothing existed?

What if matter and energy are part of God?

 

[bhsmte]

Wait...did matter and energy always exist or was there a time before the big bang that nothing existed?

What if matter and energy are part of God?

Or, maybe George Carlin has it right and everything is driven from; The Big Electron

 

[Split Rock]

Wait...did matter and energy always exist or was there a time before the big bang that nothing existed?

What if matter and energy are part of God?

What if matter and energy are part of Vishnu?