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A Question for Creationists

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Loudmouth

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The explanation of ERV's is above my scientific pay grade, so I always start with the basics. One thing I did read abut them was the word "supposed." That alawys tells me, everthing is not set in cement yet.

I inserted "supposed" so you don't have to accept common ancestry as true as part of the question.

One basic for me is how does an offspring acquire a trait for which neither parent had the gene for.

I have given you the basic answer multiple times now.

The answer is mutations. Changes in DNA sequence can and do result in changes in phenotypic traits. The reason that humans and chimps are different is because the DNA sequence of our genomes is different. Mutations produces DNA sequences that differ from that of the parents.

I have also cited numerous papers that discuss both observed mutations in children as well as changes in traits due to mutations.

What more do you want?
 
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Loudmouth

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Are dogs and cats the same kind?

Yes, they are both in the Carnivora kind:

Carnivora


It seems you evos are always reluctiant to produce the evidence for wht you say.

And yet when presented with the evidence you claim that it is over your head, and then you ignore it. Even more, you refuse to accept any fossil as evidence of anything, and use the ad hoc claim that DNA can not be used to determine common ancestry between species for no apparent reason (other than DNA evidence is inconvenient for your beliefs).

What genetic evidence do you have that apes and humans belong to t he same kind??[/quote[

Already presented. The ERV and GULO pseudogene evidence has been presented and you ignored it.

DNA, which is evol worst enemy, will show they ar not the same kind. Not being able to mate and reproduce will confirm what DNA has verified.

"Arguments against macroevolution, based on so-called gaps in the fossil records, are also profoundly weakened by the much more detailed and digital information revealed from the study of genomes. Outside of a time machine, Darwin could hardly have imagined a more powerful data set than comparative genomics to confirm his theory."--Dr Francis Collins, "Faith and the Human Genome"
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2003/PSCF9-03Collins.pdf

Why is it that you keep making these claims that are blatantly false? Genetics holds smokin-gun evidence that common ancestry is true. The guy who makes that quote right above this paragraph, he was the guy in charge of the NIH funded Human Genome Project. He is now head of the NIH. Moreoever, he is an outspoken evangelical christian. Do you think he is lying? Do you really think that Genetics is a problem for evolution, especially when you can't even handle simple examples of how genetics evidences evolution?
 
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Loudmouth

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Tell you what. You explain how an offspring can get a trait it parents did not have the gene for and I will discuss anythign you want to. I keep asking the evos this and not one has responed yet. I wonder why.

They are called mutations. You have been told this multiple times now.
 
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Loudmouth

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If they were the same kind, they could breed and produce offspring.

Then why do people claim that birds are a kind, or whales are a kind, when there are species of birds and whales that can not produce offspring together? Have you ever seen the offspring of an ostrich and a hummingbird?

I will be concerened about your opinion of me when you can explain how an offspring can acquire a trait for which its parents did not have the gene for.

Like we have said, it is due to mutations.
 
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AV1611VET

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“Theology . . . is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn’t there." - Robert A. Heinlein
Now you're getting it! :thumbsup:

Then God spake ...

It's called creatio ex nihilo.

One minute NOTHING is there, the next, there's the earth!
 
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OllieFranz

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It can be inheriterd but blood is not a new trait. Both the albino and the hemiphilliac were going to get blood. The mutation only altered the blood they received.

That's what we'd already established you accept. The gene is not new, it is just a new allele of an existing gene.

I am not convinced what you have posted is accurate. How about a source. If this new gene causes a change in the species, you might have leg to stand on but it won't. The offspring will not only be the exact same species as its parents, its offsprisngs will be the same species as well.

What I hear you saying is that (even though you admit below that you don't understand the research) you know better than the researchers what the research shows, or should show. What I see is the incredulity fallacy ("I can't understand it, so it must be false.")

If the Wiki article is "above your pay grade," then an original source, written by the researcher, will be even less comprehensible to you.

Yes, the first several generations are the same species, or the new gene cannot be passed on. But if one sub-population gains a number of new genes over a thousand generations or more, and loses an equal number of old ones, and another sub-population gains and loses a completely different set of genes, the two sub-populations become different enough that a salamander from sub-population A cannot breed with a salamander from sub-population B. But both sub-populations are active, and genetically fertile within their own herds.

It is a gradual process. Enough genetic differences have to build up that the sub-populations will have become quite different. No one mutation can acheive speciation.

Okay, but does it ever resuslt in a change of species?
As I explained above.

Over time, as more of the differences accumulate, yes. Ring species show it happening.

It seems to me links in the message do nor link. At least I can never get them too. I will go back to the notification and see if I can get it to link. If I can, I will get back to you.

Most of that article was over my science pay grade. What I read did not mention a new trait reulting fromwhat they sai and they did not mention the off springwould or could evolve into a different species and to me, that is the bottom line.

To get more technical would not serve any purpose. If you believe all of what they said will result in evolution into a new species, that's fine. I just don't believe it is genetically possible. If it was, why don't we see new species today?

New species do not come from nowhere. We see speciation occuring in Ring Species. We see evidence of recent speciation in equines and panthers.
 
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KWCrazy

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Then men wrote stories pretending to speak for God . . .
Of course they did.
When they were given the choice between recanting these stories or suffering torture and death, they chose the latter because their made up story was just too good.

It all makes (im)perfect sense. In the words of Tom Petty, "It don't make no difference to me, 'cause you believe what you wanna believe."
 
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Smidlee

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Which is again, a metaphor. You could also say that the universe is a canvas on which God paints. The canvas is the universe, matter is the paint and God's brush strokes are the information. That doesn't tell me how deities create universes, it merely refurnishes the claim that they do in the form of a metaphor.
It's a lot better explanation than atheist that tries to explain origins by matter and energy only. Living cells also requires matter , energy and information.
 
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AV1611VET

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Of course they did.
When they were given the choice between recanting these stories or suffering torture and death, they chose the latter because their made up story was just too good.

It all makes (im)perfect sense. In the words of Tom Petty, "It don't make no difference to me, 'cause you believe what you wanna believe."

I have a feeling martyrdom means nothing to these guys.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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It's a lot better explanation than atheist that tries to explain origins by matter and energy only. Living cells also requires matter , energy and information.

How is it better? You are postulating, as an explanation, the existence of a supernatural entity, without bothering at all with how you know that such an entity exists or how it brings universes into being.
 
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AV1611VET

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No you didn't.
Whew! I'd hate to break the mold!

(Actually the Bible says you won't understand, and you guys are prime examples of Its accuracy.)
 
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