A Question for Atheists...

[Araith]

Do Atheists believe that suffering is wrong. When I say that, I mean, do you see a starving, diseased, much help needed community in a third world country and not like it?
Is rape and murder a bad thing?
Are there things that just shouldn't be done by humans?

Please answer that, but tell me why, as best you can.

 

[flicka]

The athietists morality seems to be a hot topic this week. I guess I'd have to ask you why you think athiests would feel different about those things than you do? I mean I'm sure you know some athiests, or at least strong agnostics/non christian folk...do they give you the impression they are ok with rape and murder and human suffering?

There are thing's that shouldn't be done by humans. Why? Because society demands it or it wouldn't survive.

 

[Araith]

That's saying it's not really wrong or at least not openly saying that. You're only saying it's wrong because it would disrupt society, but is it wrong?

 

[James T]

Do Atheists believe that suffering is wrong. When I say that, I mean, do you see a starving, diseased, much help needed community in a third world country and not like it?
Is rape and murder a bad thing?
Are there things that just shouldn't be done by humans?

Please answer that, but tell me why, as best you can.

Kant's universalism is a useful base. If everyone thought it OK to kill there'd be nobody. So that's bad. If every man raped women, women would be no better than property, in a creepy way there is no absolute reason why this is a problem and it's been essentially the rule in many societies, as an atheist I simply make a choice that it is wrong, it is my choice because I want it to be. A starving third world country ... if they starve every year and it is lack of planning ... let 'em starve, there is no fixing that. If they are starving after a drought and they normally make it themselves ... help! I also consider it necessary to care for our children, "our" in the wider community sense, but I'd let 'em starve per the above I've already noted.

 

[Araith]

Hmmmm...Again, you aren't addressing the issue...WHY! If it is only bad because society couldn't function or humanity is threatened, then is it really wrong? Why do you make that choice that rape is bad, who says it's a bad thing? Why shouldn't it be allowed?

 

[James T]

It's worthwhile having a set of rules that allows us to exist beyond the present generation.

 

[mutantleader]

Morality does not equate to religion. Personal values do not equate to religion.
The absence of religion does not equate to chaos. We learn right from wrong from our families and society. A good word to google to see nonreligious moral values is : HUMANISM

 

[peepnklown]

Do Atheists believe that suffering is wrong. When I say that, I mean, do you see a starving, diseased, much help needed community in a third world country and not like it?
Is rape and murder a bad thing?
Are there things that just shouldn't be done by humans?

Please answer that, but tell me why, as best you can.

I got a speedy question for you. Do you believe murder is wrong only because your God says so?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Do Atheists believe that suffering is wrong. When I say that, I mean, do you see a starving, diseased, much help needed community in a third world country and not like it?

I feel compassion and goodwill for such people.

While I'm not a philosophical altruist who believes that we must place their personal goods above our own, I think it is in our best interests to at least make some attempt to understand what their problem is and see if there is something that we could do in a spirit of generosity to help them get on a better course.

Is rape and murder a bad thing?

Yes, very much so. It's an evil not only to the people who are harmed, but to the perpetrator of the crime. We, as human beings, need to be in alignment with what is good for us, and one very important thing we need is positive and rational relations with other people who are themselves pursuing their good, and to be aligned with feelings of goodwill and friendship necessary to achieve such relations. When someone rapes or murders someone, they are simultaneously raping or murdering their chances of a happy and fulfilling life.

 

[ChrisLockhart]

Atheism is not a belief system, but rather a single belief (or lack there of).
so this question is an illogical one.

 

[LemmingLord]

Do Atheists believe that suffering is wrong. When I say that, I mean, do you see a starving, diseased, much help needed community in a third world country and not like it?
Is rape and murder a bad thing?
Are there things that just shouldn't be done by humans?

Please answer that, but tell me why, as best you can.

The empathy found amongst the Atheists and Christians I've met seem to be about equally diverse. I wonder if research has been done on this.

I'm only a sometime atheist, but I would say I do not like the mass needless suffering that goes on in the world.

Rape and murder are bad for people and society.

"Should" is an interesting word; by its definition, there are some things that are universally "better" to do than others; likewise, "shouldn't" means that there are some things universally "worse" to do then others. I like to use the philosophy of hedonism as a framework for what is "better" and what is "worse," let us define better as that course of action which means more happiness and less unhappiness for the most people over the longest period of time then another course of action.

Yes, I would agree that there are some things humans shouldn't do in most circumstances. I'm not sure there are many things that I would say a human shouldn't do under any circumstances (but rape is in there).

I don't believe people should murder or rape under most situations. Rape is probably more universally evil then murder; and by that, I mean there are many more situations where murder can be justified as being "good" for people and/or society. In fact, I've never heard a good argument for why it is ok to rape someone.

From the hedonistic frame work I'm working with, murdering a mass murderer or rapist might very well produce more happiness for more people over a longer period of time then other methods of ending the unhappiness causing offender's acts.

I suppose from the hedonistic frame work, you would need to really strain your brain to come up with reasons why raping someone would lead to more pleasure to more people over a long period of time. (I suppose rape is a form of torture - torture can be used to extract information about a terrorist attack - perhaps it could be used in the same way? Eww. )

 

[The Seeker]

Do Atheists believe that suffering is wrong. When I say that, I mean, do you see a starving, diseased, much help needed community in a third world country and not like it?
Is rape and murder a bad thing?
Are there things that just shouldn't be done by humans?

Please answer that, but tell me why, as best you can.

Personally, I'm a pragmatist when it comes to morality, it doesn't matter whether something is "wrong" in a vague, undefined, abstract sense (and hence "why" is not a coherent question), it matters that we as a species and as a society protect our life, liberty and happiness. But that's humanism for you

 

[LemmingLord]

Atheism is not a belief system, but rather a single belief (or lack there of).
so this question is an illogical one.

It is somewhat misguided in that it may be said to presuppose a moral framework under which all atheists can attest.

I think it is a great topic though; why do any of us feel that rape and murder are good or bad?

The bible shows several examples of God asking men to rape. There is no laws brought down by Moses that men shalt not rape (as long as men don't rape men and women don't rape women...); yet men and women of the Jewish faith appear to have the same belief that rape is wrong.

Although culturally rape is common, there are typically laws on the books against it wherever you go (at least that's my understanding). In some places, the law doesn't prosecute some people who rape under certain circumstances (it used to be the case in the US, and it probably still is in some jurisdictions, that the law wouldn't prosecute a husband who had raped his wife.).

 

[Green Man]

Do Atheists believe that suffering is wrong. When I say that, I mean, do you see a starving, diseased, much help needed community in a third world country and not like it?
Is rape and murder a bad thing?
Are there things that just shouldn't be done by humans?

Please answer that, but tell me why, as best you can.

Why do some people seem to think atheists see things like this any differently than anyone else?

 

[levi501]

because I've been taught to empathize with other peoples suffering...
because society will be more successful when it's members subscribed to the idea of the golden rule.

 

[levi501]

It is somewhat misguided in that it may be said to presuppose a moral framework under which all atheists can attest.

It could be said, but it would be wrong.
Atheism doesn't mean lack of religion or spirituality it means the lack of belief in god(s). Because of this there isn't some "moral framework to which all atheists can attest." If you're trying to pigeon hole their beliefs into some label by saying it doesn't involve god, that's so broad as to be meaningless.

 

[LemmingLord]

It could be said, but it would be wrong.
Atheism doesn't mean lack of religion or spirituality it means the lack of belief in god(s). Because of this there isn't some "moral framework to which all atheists can attest." If you're trying to pigeon hole their beliefs into some label by saying it doesn't involve god, that's so broad as to be meaningless.

Exactly! Like I said, it is misguided to think atheists have a singular culture or moral framework.

Each sect of Christianity has a set of common beliefs; one of those beliefs is THEISM, one of those beliefs is where morality comes from; another is why an action is right in one circumstance and wrong in another.

Atheism is merely one belief (or a lack of belief); although it is incompatible with most Christian sects, it is not necessarily incompatible with the other beliefs that Christianity has (in this case, that murder and rape are typically bad).

 

[Spinrad]

Do Atheists believe that suffering is wrong. When I say that, I mean, do you see a starving, diseased, much help needed community in a third world country and not like it?
Is rape and murder a bad thing?
Are there things that just shouldn't be done by humans?

Please answer that, but tell me why, as best you can.

I will just skip "wrong" conversations.

Suffering is unpleasant because I, as a human being, can empathise with it. I see a starving child and think of when I was young and hungry and how scared I got and kind of understand what these children go through, and because I didn't enjoy it I know they don't. I want to alleviate it. I want people to not have to go through things that I would not want togo through. Also I can project the idea that if I help them perhpas if I am ever in a similar situation I might be able to expect help. Or, at this point, my child might. Is starvation wrong? It's negative and pointless. Surgery is negative but has a point. I see soemone being cut open and I cringe automatically, but I see the use of it. I can think of instances where starvation might have a point, but only theoretically. Therefore I would se starvation as "wrong". A negative circumstance without a positive goal.

Rape and murder are the same situations. I don't want to die or be molested, and I can't see hwere anyone else would under most circumstances. It's not hard to imagine that someone being raped or murdered would want to be helped, as I would. There is no reason not to help and it would engender a closer social relationship and make survival more likeley, at a basic level. Further, on a more complex level, being a firm believer in personal liberty it is no one's right to take another's life or sexuality without permission. Those are each person's posessions. Having someone in a society that would take those things is unacceptable.

I believe as we progress we are able to comunicate and bargain and trade more effeciently, cross borders and breed more freely and answer to no higher authority, therefore raping, murder, theft and inflicting needless suffering are less and less acceptable. This has not always been the case, but it is now. Our genes are free to intermingle, our lands are easily explaoited for both goods and trade. And travelling to another region is simple. Our species' morality is becoming more refined by necessity.

 

[Vylo]

Intense suffering is indeed wrong, or bad. Some suffering however is not.

"What good is a life devoid of strife?"

 

[Nymphalidae]

My typical day as an atheist:

1. wake up
2. babies for breakfast
3. science
4. babies for lunch
5. shovel babies with a pitchfork
6. babies for dinner
7. violent video game/tv time
8. sleep/fornication