selfinflikted
Under Deck
- Jul 13, 2006
- 11,441
- 786
- 46
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
- Politics
- US-Democrat
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Two realities:
One: Scientists have never been able to create biological life from the inert. Yet that is exactly what people wish to believe "mother nature" achieved without thought.
Two: The Jew has existed for thousands of years as Jews and yet the world has continuously tried to absorb, disperse, and eradicate them. The Bible says this will not happen --------- and it hasn't.
I do not think any modern cosmologies are true something-from-nothing paradigms. They all posit some radically different something which gave rise to space and time via vacuum fluctuation or what have you.Yes... I didn't realize it, but I suppose even if one could prove something could come into existence with no physical stimulae, it wouldn't prove something could come into existence based on nothing, would it?
Hence origin being in the realm of philosophy.
I don't think so. I believe such events are considered causeless and entirely random.But even though it has no apparent cause, it has certain factors that must be present, like the presence of a quark?
So logically, there must be something happening with the quark to cause the boson.
The next step would be to find some way to show that infinite regress is impossible......and this means that we can presume that - if we define "god" to be this uncaused cause - god either exists or doesn´t exist. Unless, of course, we define "god" to be this infinite regress, as well.
Another question would be: Whence the conclusion that there can only be one ("an") uncaused cause? )It doesn´t seem to follow from anything - if we allow for the possibility that things can be uncaused there can be countless uncaused causes (gods).
I suppose the boiled-down argument is:
God is the cause of us.
We cannot possess the perfections that the definition of perfection, the ultimate form, does not.
Intelligence is a perfection.
God is the definition of perfection.
He must possess it.
Two realities:
One: Scientists have never been able to create biological life from the inert. Yet that is exactly what people wish to believe "mother nature" achieved without thought.
Two: The Jew has existed for thousands of years as Jews and yet the world has continuously tried to absorb, disperse, and eradicate them. The Bible says this will not happen --------- and it hasn't.
Creation must be or have been a special act AND NOT NATURAL OR COMMON. The Jew as a peculiar people must be the result of supernatural intervention, and again: not the result of luck (which I do not believe exists but what seems to be the god of those who have problems with DIVINE intervention).So....?
if you believe in free will ( that is the belief that your mind is more than probabilistic or deterministic chemical reactions, and you are actually in control) then, that means that every whim you make is it's own uncaused cause.
Good question, which was completely cut out of his reply. I'd be interested in his answer to that as well.Does that mean maybe the Jew is correct and the messiah has not yet arrived to lead them?
So...
Does that mean maybe the Jew is correct and the messiah has not yet arrived to lead them?
No, it means that they maybe very wrong; however, GOD made a promise to Abraham and HE intends to keep it. The Jew is still GOD choosen. They will eventually come around ----------- GOD knows that. See Revelation Chapter 7.
What if one doesn't believe in free will?
Jews aren't really all that impressed with Revelation chapter 7. Or any chapter... or the whole New Testament.
They are still waiting for the messiah to them. The one that would be their great king and lead them.
No, it means that they maybe very wrong; however, GOD made a promise to Abraham and HE intends to keep it. The Jew is still GOD choosen. They will eventually come around ----------- GOD knows that. See Revelation Chapter 7.
Creation must be or have been a special act AND NOT NATURAL OR COMMON.
The Jew as a peculiar people must be the result of supernatural intervention,
and again: not the result of luck (which I do not believe exists but what seems to be the god of those who have problems with DIVINE intervention).
Anything that has the possibility of being or not being is caused....and this means that we can presume that - if we define "god" to be this uncaused cause - god either exists or doesn´t exist. Unless, of course, we define "god" to be this infinite regress, as well.
Another question would be: Whence the conclusion that there can only be one ("an") uncaused cause? )It doesn´t seem to follow from anything - if we allow for the possibility that things can be uncaused there can be countless uncaused causes (gods).
A worldly king and not a SPIRITUAL KING. Exactly, what the Jews were disappointled not to see in JESUS 2000 years ago... What man understands and what GOD understands are two different things.
Well, my intent in this thread was not to convince you all; but try to convince those who are against the idea of God as illogical, that it is not.You seemed surprised when you learned that some of us atheists aren't against the idea of a god. What many are against, though, is certainty when there shouldn't reasonably be any. Subscribing to an untestable idea is one thing, claiming it is the absolute truth is another thing entirely.
Thank you. A lot of discussions devolve into name calling and ranting, I hope to avoid that.In all honesty, though, I commend your determination, level-headedness, and typing speed. Lesser members would have gone into crazy or exasperated rants by now.
That may be an excellent answer - but to which question?Anything that has the possibility of being or not being is caused.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?