A question about Purgatory.

[Johnboy60]

Does the Bible speak about Purgatory? My friend's that are Catholic has told me about this place between Heaven and Hell.

 

[Radagast]

Does the Bible speak about Purgatory?

No.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Catholics have Scriptures that they say do. It is apparently based on their belief that all sin must be atoned for in an eternal sense (by Christ) but also by the person in a temporal sense (by punishment or acts of contrition). Catholics appear to be unique in this sense.

It was not something taught by the early Church (though they may go back and read in the "seeds" of it).

It would have been a foreign idea to the Apostles.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Some people misunderstood a couple of Bible verses and turned them into a FantasyLand that Walt Disney would envy.Dont fall for it.Find some new friends .if pergatory exists....the saving shed blood of Christ is no better than a sheep or a goat.

 

[Basil the Great]

There are some words by Jesus in Matthew 5:48 which one could take as support for the concept of Purgatory when he said, "Therefore you must be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect". Now few of us here believe that Christians reach perfection in this life. Hence, if we are to become perfect as Jesus said, it would seem that such will happen in the afterlife. Does this necessarily mean that Purgatory exists? No, but neither does it mean that Purgatory does not exist. I do not know, but I will say that the concept of some sort of Intermediate State makes sense to this Protestant, at least for some Christians. However, I do not really favor the traditional views of Purgatory, such as the idea of the burning away of our sins. The concept that the Eastern Orthodox have of Toll Houses sounds a little more inviting than the Catholic Purgatory, though the Orthodox Toll House doctrine does not seem to have the mandatory belief requirement for Orthodox Christians that the Catholic Purgatory does for Catholics.

 

[~Anastasia~]

The thing about toll houses is they should not be seen as literal.

We must in fact be purged of any sinful inclinations. That should be happening to Christians as they live their lives on earth. And few are actually perfected by the time they die.

How God perfects this purging - we do not know. It could well be an instantaneous thing after we die.

But we are suspicious of the doctrine purgatory because of the supposed long times necessary, the possibility of being let out due to indulgences or merits, and the things explained by it that God has simply not given us to know.

Suffering CAN purge people of sin ... particularly of pride, for example, since it is very humbling. But we do not consider that suffering is God's only means of purifying us.

We have a lot of teaching (in Orthodoxy) about cooperating with the grace of God and being transformed into the likeness of Christ, as far as we are able, because we consider it our reasonable sacrifice. But we have very little about the completion of such things after death, since God has not given us that knowledge.

 

[Basil the Great]

The thing about toll houses is they should not be seen as literal.

We must in fact be purged of any sinful inclinations. That should be happening to Christians as they live their lives on earth. And few are actually perfected by the time they die.

How God perfects this purging - we do not know. It could well be an instantaneous thing after we die.

But we are suspicious of the doctrine purgatory because of the supposed long times necessary, the possibility of being let out due to indulgences or merits, and the things explained by it that God has simply not given us to know.

Suffering CAN purge people of sin ... particularly of pride, for example, since it is very humbling. But we do not consider that suffering is God's only means of purifying us.

We have a lot of teaching (in Orthodoxy) about cooperating with the grace of God and being transformed into the likeness of Christ, as far as we are able, because we consider it our reasonable sacrifice. But we have very little about the completion of such things after death, since God has not given us that knowledge.

Yes, one of the main problems with the Catholic Purgatory is the doctrine of indulgences and how they can reduce one's time spent in Purgatory. It is most unfortunate that said practice ever began.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Yes, one of the main problems with the Catholic Purgatory is the doctrine of indulgences and how they can reduce one's time spent in Purgatory. It is most unfortunate that said practice ever began.

Yes, just my thinking ... if it's really supposed to be perfecting someone, why can you buy someone's way out? Would they still be perfected? And if God can do it instantly, then why doesn't He, insisting instead that folks suffer for long periods?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Yes, just my thinking ... if it's really supposed to be perfecting someone, why can you buy someone's way out? Would they still be perfected? And if God can do it instantly, then why doesn't He, insisting instead that folks suffer for long periods?

Anastasia...It’s a fairy tale....God has something better than a fairy tale....it’s called Paul’s Gospel...believe it and God will impute the perfection of His Son to you...He took your sin—you got His perfection.....what a deal! What a Saviour! 1cor15.....notice ,the Gospel thAt SAVES!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Anastasia...It’s a fairy tale....God has something better than a fairy tale....it’s called Paul’s Gospel...believe it and God will impute the perfection of His Son to you...He took your sin—you got His perfection.....what a deal! What a Saviour! 1cor15.....notice ,the Gospel thAt SAVES!

Thank you my brother but I'm commenting only in speculative terms. We don't accept purgatory. But I think it's worth critically examining beliefs. That's all.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Anastasia...It’s a fairy tale....God has something better than a fairy tale....it’s called Paul’s Gospel...believe it and God will impute the perfection of His Son to you...He took your sin—you got His perfection.....what a deal! What a Saviour! 1cor15.....notice ,the Gospel thAt SAVES!

Curious but why do you call it Paul's Gospel? I mean - why single out Paul?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Curious but why do you call it Paul's Gospel? I mean - why single out Paul?

Paul refers to the Gospel as “my” Gospel most,if not all of the time....I was wondering when somebody was going to notice that...God bless!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Paul refers to the Gospel as “my” Gospel most,if not all of the time....I was wondering when somebody was going to notice that...God bless!

OK then, LOL. Thanks for the reply. God bless you too!

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The thing about toll houses is they should not be seen as literal.

We must in fact be purged of any sinful inclinations. That should be happening to Christians as they live their lives on earth. And few are actually perfected by the time they die.

How God perfects this purging - we do not know. It could well be an instantaneous thing after we die.

But we are suspicious of the doctrine purgatory because of the supposed long times necessary, the possibility of being let out due to indulgences or merits, and the things explained by it that God has simply not given us to know.

Suffering CAN purge people of sin ... particularly of pride, for example, since it is very humbling. But we do not consider that suffering is God's only means of purifying us.

We have a lot of teaching (in Orthodoxy) about cooperating with the grace of God and being transformed into the likeness of Christ, as far as we are able, because we consider it our reasonable sacrifice. But we have very little about the completion of such things after death, since God has not given us that knowledge.

The so-called “ purging “ took place 2000 years ago , but then maybe the precious Blood of our Saviour was inadequate to remove sin....kinda like goats that could “ cover” sin for a year, but could not remove it once and for all.Poor old misguided John the Baptist was wrong when he said “ Behold the Lamb of God that TAKETH AWAY the sins of the world”. I mean,we’ve all heard about that “Good News”, but this stuff is crazy! I “ insist that Jesus share some of His glory for all the stuff I did, you know...that “ purging” I endured.

 

[Bob Crowley]

There's a pretty good explanation of the reality and need for Purgatory in this link.

Catholic Bible 101

If there is no Purgatory, then we have the absurd situation of a serial murderer (or an Adolf Hitler to take a more extreme example) who makes a sincere deathbed confession, and then waltzes straight into heaven, without in his life ever having made any attempt at personal santification.

HItler's rages, his blaming of other people, his cruelty, his vindictiveness - all is suddenly sweetness and light, without his ever having made one ounce of effort to reform his character, other than a last minute realisation of what a mongrel he'd really been.

No problem - just come straight in!

NOBODY gets into heaven unless they are literally perfect, and this means purfication after death if necessary. Christ's death on the cross means we are not condemned - it doesn't mean we are automatically made pure. I don't know about you, but I think I sin every day, usually in a venial way, but sometimes more seriously.

The man who wasn't even properly dressed for the heavenly wedding got thrown out on his ear. I believe that parable at least contained an inbuilt reference to Purgatory.

 

[Albion]

Does the Bible speak about Purgatory? My friend's that are Catholic has told me about this place between Heaven and Hell.

No, it's strictly a Medieval concept that holds that all who do not go to Hell will go for some time to a temporary Hell that the Medieval church called Purgatory.

There is absolutely no Scriptural evidence for the workings and purposes taught by the Roman Catholic Church, although there are some vague references in Scripture to punishment to come and there is a reference in one of the books that is only in the Catholic Bible that says some Jews prayed for their fallen comrades that they would be released from their sins.

That could refer to many things and is mainly what those people hoped, not something that the Scriptures teach as possible or something we are supposed to believe.

You can see from the post immediately above this one that people who have been taught that there is a Purgatory have to justify it with a lot of 'could be's, 'ought to be's, 'sounds like's and what they've 'implied,' but they have nothing concrete.

 

[JoeP222w]

Does the Bible speak about Purgatory? My friend's that are Catholic has told me about this place between Heaven and Hell.

No, the Bible speaks nothing of Purgatory. It is a false doctrine, because Rome denies the sufficiency of the gospel of Jesus Christ. This was one of the key issues in the Reformation.




[Cue the report monkeys for stating the truth...]

 

[JoeP222w]

There are some words by Jesus in Matthew 5:48 which one could take as support for the concept of Purgatory when he said, "Therefore you must be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect".

That is why we need the imputed righteousness of Christ. In Christ, God sees us as perfect, because Jesus is perfect.

 

[Albion]

Now few of us here believe that Christians reach perfection in this life. Hence, if we are to become perfect as Jesus said, it would seem that such will happen in the afterlife. Does this necessarily mean that Purgatory exists? No, but neither does it mean that Purgatory does not exist. I do not know, but I will say that the concept of some sort of Intermediate State makes sense to this Protestant, at least for some Christians.

I won't dispute that line of thought although I see no need for such an intermediate state myself. However, neither Catholics nor Protestants do anyone a favor when asked the question "IS Purgatory real?" by answering that something like it -- or something between Heaven and Hell would make sense."

Purgatory is not just something "between" Heaven and Hell. The RCC created it and defined it -- very specifically. Anything else that is sort of like Purgatory or reminiscent of Purgatory IS NOT PURGATORY, whether or not these other speculations have some merit.

 

[Albion]

That is why we need the imputed righteousness of Christ. In Christ, God sees us as perfect, because Jesus is perfect.

Besides that, what makes punishment be a means of achieving "perfection?" There is no inherent connection between the two. You could torture a wongdoer forever, but doing that won't make him into an angel!