A pure relationship

[Sketcher]

Want to marry a virgin? Fine, good. That's God's design anyway. I believe what you should stress above all else though, is honesty while keeping the virginity standard more under wraps. Women are known to lie about their sexual pasts in order to appear more attractive to men they wish to date. If you value honesty above everything else and women know this, then it may discourage that sort of manipulation, enabling you to have a better idea of where she's really at.

 

[Sketcher]

Referring to a sin isn't judgmental, condemning a person based on a sin they have been forgiven for is judgmental. I'm simply pointing this fact out so OP can reconsider their choice in this matter if they are indeed attempting to be strong in their faith.

What if it isn't condemnation? What if it is the belief that a virgin will be a better match for him? What if it is taking into account that unlike other sins, the act of sex makes two people one flesh, and out of respect for that aspect of it, he does not wish to be with someone else who is one flesh with other people?

 

[NiobiumTragedy]

What if it isn't condemnation? What if it is the belief that a virgin will be a better match for him? What if it is taking into account that unlike other sins, the act of sex makes two people one flesh, and out of respect for that aspect of it, he does not wish to be with someone else who is one flesh with other people?

Then he isn't reading nor understanding his Bible very well, which can be just as bad.

 

[Sketcher]

Then he isn't reading nor understanding his Bible very well, which can be just as bad.

Not sure why you're saying he isn't reading or understanding his Bible very well if those are his beliefs.

 

[Seraphim777]

What if it isn't condemnation? What if it is the belief that a virgin will be a better match for him? What if it is taking into account that unlike other sins, the act of sex makes two people one flesh, and out of respect for that aspect of it, he does not wish to be with someone else who is one flesh with other people?

This is one of my many reasons. The act of sex joins two people together. Unlike most sins fornication and murder can't be undone.

I do not understand how refusing to be in a relationship/marry someone that isn't a virgin would be condemnation? It's more about not wanting any issues arising from those irreversible mistakes to subvert the foundations of relationship.

Here are some examples:

A person steals $200 from your wallet. It might hurt but eventually you'll get over it. It's just money. The thief might even have a change of heart or in the future return the money. You won't take any material things with you, so even if you lost a precious family heirloom it would hurt but people get over it. The Bible says worldly treasures are meaningless compared to spiritual treasures.

A person murders your entire family. This will hurt forever and you will always live with that. You can forgive the person. But you wouldn't ever trust the murderer. The murderer will always have the blood of your family and it can't be undone. Nothing will bring them back into your life and it will hurt everyday.

A man is a virgin and is waiting until the wedding night. His girlfriend tells him that she isn't a virgin. She engaged in fornication, it doesn't matter if it's one or one hundred. She can be repentant and he could forgive her. Being forgiven isn't the same as being willing to compromise your values and carry a heavy heart everyday. The level of trust he would have had with a virgin wouldn't be in that relationship. He can breakup with her to find someone he's comfortable with and can provide an equal yoked relationship. By breaking up with her he also allows her to find someone she's better suited for.

The main point is the actions of Murderers and Fornicators can not be undone. Their trust and personal integrity will always be diminished. Forgiveness doesn't change it. That is why those two sins carried severe punishments. Murder and sexual relations are irreversible. They taint the spirit. The most serious and grave sins are mortal sins. Murder and fornication are mortal sins.

Unlike in the murderer's example, the man would be looking at his girlfriend everyday. If he waited and she didn't it would be eating away at him. That causes resentment and that is never a good thing to have in a relationship. So if a person that is a virgin knows that he/she will feel resentment towards a girlfriend/boyfriend that wasn't also a virgin until the wedding night they can't change that.

A relationship shouldn't be a chore and each day trying to overcome feeling of resentment, discontent, distrust, hurt, and maybe regret. That would be a punishment. I don't think any marriage could survive if those feelings are persistent and permanent.

There are many reasons why I wouldn't be with a non-virgin and I've only touched upon a few.

 

[Sketcher]

This is one of my many reasons. The act of sex joins two people together. Unlike most sins fornication and murder can't be undone.

Right - God can of course raise the dead, and if he can raise the dead, he can reverse the two becoming one flesh - problem is, unlike with raising the dead, there's no way to prove that he has done so. You can't take people's word for it because many Christians have a tendency to claim a full recovery when in fact they have only experienced a partial recovery. Or they haven't had any recovery yet, and they're just hoping for a recovery. (They apply this to more than just sexual issues.)

There are more dimensions to relationships than this obviously, and I'm not saying people who aren't virgins can't make it by any stretch of the imagination. We need to do our best with what we have and with what God gives us in addition. But I know that I will need all the help I can get, and not being one flesh with someone else would be a help.

 

[Hidden101]

This thread is full of blah. People judging people who are judging people. Ironically, I am probably judging myself.
Virginity is rare, and it is getting rarer. Why? People are marrying later, therefore, temptations to have premarital sex are stronger. Also, arguably the world has never been so sex crazy before, or at least for a couple of thousand years. So, you are less likely to find someone who is a virgin due to these two reasons. Am I using links to back up these statements? No. I am using common sense.
The importance a person applies to a virgin bride, well it is subjective how important a virgin bride is to a person. What one may consider to be unspecial, may be considered special by another.

 

[Iamnewinchrist]

Choose what you feel is best for you. If your a virgin and are waiting for another virgin, God Bless you! If your not a virgin but are waiting till marriage in abstinence, God Bless you, If your not waiting and still having pre-marital sex talk to God. Don't get angry and try to Justify. Just Accept it and move on.


1 Corinthians 6:15-20

New International Version (NIV)

15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[a] 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[b]
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

(Just accept Gods word. If not go to a different thread!)

 

[MacFall]

Since Jesus doesn't judge a woman based on the condition of her hymen, I assure you things will not go well for you if you do.

 

[Sketcher]

Since Jesus doesn't judge a woman based on the condition of her hymen, I assure you things will not go well for you if you do.

Virginity != condition of the hymen.
Also, Jesus was not looking for a wife. This should only matter in the context of choosing a spouse, not how people are treated in general (in the church or otherwise).

 

[MacFall]

Virginity != condition of the hymen.
Also, Jesus was not looking for a wife. This should only matter in the context of choosing a spouse, not how people are treated in general (in the church or otherwise).

Jesus was also not looking for a degree. Does that mean we should all be carpenters?

The point is that if a person is redeemed, then we cannot treat them any differently based on their pasts. It is the condition of the heart that matters.

 

[Sketcher]

The point is that if a person is redeemed, then we cannot treat them any differently based on their pasts. It is the condition of the heart that matters.

I mostly agree with this. The only difference really between my belief and your expressed belief here is based on the fact that the past is not likely 100% past, there's some of it still in the present. In a general church setting - meeting together, serving together, etc - it doesn't matter. In a marriage, it begins to matter. I'm of course not talking about their legal condition, which is their standing before God. I'm talking about what a person is like on Earth, because that is what the spouse has to live with, for life.

 

[MacFall]

As far as I'm concerned, if someone's past is not 100% past it's only if they're still dragging some of it along with them. I won't be the one dragging it. So, I would not presume that a person who has accepted God's redeeming grace has not, in fact, been redeemed from their old ways unless I saw proof that they were still living in their old ways.

 

[Sketcher]

As far as I'm concerned, if someone's past is not 100% past it's only if they're still dragging some of it along with them. I won't be the one dragging it. So, I would not presume that a person who has accepted God's redeeming grace has not, in fact, been redeemed from their old ways unless I saw proof that they were still living in their old ways.

I agree that it's the person dragging it, and I don't do any of the dragging. However, people still drag it, and it goes very deep, and people can only deal with it in layers as they become more aware of it. And there's no surprise here, because two people becoming one flesh is serious business. It's the one flesh in the present bit that I have a problem with. Unfortunately, I know of no way to reverse that and to reliably tell that it has been reversed. If you have such a way of knowing, I'm all ears.

 

[MacFall]

Knowing is one way. Faith is the other. Knowledge requires proof; faith requires an interpretation of non-conclusive evidence.

 

[Sketcher]

And with this, there isn't even evidence to rightly base faith on.

 

[MacFall]

Well, I'm not talking about making a decision to give your heart to someone until you know something about them. Preferably until you're already very close, as in friendship. But the problem with having a highly exclusive view of relationships is that one can't know the condition of a person's heart if he writes them off based on a specific bit of information.

 

[Jesusisgood]

Maybe its just the ones that are close or around you. I used to think the same thing about men but you proved me wrong. I am so proud to have heard you are honoring God and keeping yourself for your future spouse. Dont worry. I think it might just be girls in your area where i am all my Christian girl friends are keeping themselves pure so dont give up Some girl will think you are very attractive especially if you are pure. I would never date a man who wasnt a virgin. but thats me.

 

[Maryland Girl]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a virgin wanting to marry another virgin. Virginity is something that the bible speaks well of. Seeking that in a future spouse is not the same as idolizing it. No one is talking about setting up a shrine in their house and worshipping the goddess of Virginity. They just want to have a good shot at having a healthy marriage. That's honorable and good. No need to bash them. We have to consider that there's something unfair about waiting until marriage to have sex, and then contracting an STD from your spouse. That is a risk you're asking the OP to take.

My thing is, I think a man has a better chance of marrying a virgin than a woman. So, he shouldn't have problems, especially if he's looking within the church. Also, the online community Waitingtilmarriage could be a place to meet someone.

I really do understand the view that we should be forgiving, and look beyond someone's past. I think that this is required more now because premarital sex has become so prevalent. Even if someone is waiting now, it's possible that they have had sex at some point in time. It's just harder to meet a single person who hasn't had sex. But if it's honorable to be a virgin, then it is also honorable to want to marry a virgin.

 

[MacFall]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a virgin wanting to marry another virgin.

There isn't anything wrong with wanting it. But using that as a basis for judging another person's worthiness of being one's mate is wrong.

Virginity is something that the bible speaks well of.

Yes, in the Old Testament purity system. Thankfully we do not live by that system anymore.

Seeking that in a future spouse is not the same as idolizing it…
They just want to have a good shot at having a healthy marriage.

There is a much stronger correlation between divorce and people who are ignorant of sexuality and therefore have unrealistic expectations than between non-promiscuous premarital sex and divorce. Not that I think that means people should have sex before they marry, but it does mean that people should be honest and understanding about it before they marry. And those who try to apply Old Testament purity attitudes to sex are in point of fact much less likely to do that.

We have to consider that there's something unfair about waiting until marriage to have sex, and then contracting an STD from your spouse.

Nobody's advocating that anyone marry an unrepentant harlot here. Your little jab about STDs is unfair and impertinent.

But let's talk about fairness. How is it any more fair for a virgin, who is nonetheless a sinner for that fact, to judge a non-virgin as being unworthy of him because of a mistake from which she has repented, and for which she has been forgiven by God? If both are redeemed by Christ, a former harlot and a virgin are moral equals as far as God is concerned. And who are we to impose a stricter standard on others than God would impose?

My thing is, I think a man has a better chance of marrying a virgin than a woman.

So untrue. Men are no more prone to lust, and no more promiscuous, than women. The idea that they are is plain sexism.

I really do understand the view that we should be forgiving, and look beyond someone's past. I think that this is required more now because premarital sex has become so prevalent.

A quick look through history will disabuse you of that idea. People have always been promiscuous. The difference between now and the recent past is that it's more in the open now, but there have been many times in history, even within Christendom, where sexual looseness was not regarded as a serious thing. No matter how bad things get, we're not special. There's nothing new under the sun.

Even if someone is waiting now, it's possible that they have had sex at some point in time.

Paraphrased: even if someone has repented now, they still sinned in the past.

So what?

But if it's honorable to be a virgin, then it is also honorable to want to marry a virgin.

Again, wanting to marry a virgin is fine. We may want many things that we have no right to demand, however. Basing one's treatment of others based on forgiven sins is arrogant and contrary to the spirit of Christ.