A Prophet In The Land Of Kedar

[sanaa]

3) if you believe that some parts were corrupted and other parts are true, then how can you be sure what parts were corrupted and what parts weren't ?
how can you be sure what parts to quote ?
and how can you be sure that the verses that you quoted weren't corrupted ?



ok am not muslim but i can answer that! the parts which agree with the quran and the muslim viewpoint are the "original" ones . they are not corrupted. all the parts that do not agree with the quran and muslim standpoint are corrupted and made by man .
p.s. this is not my view. am just tellin u what they believe

 

[¨°o.O (peace train) O.o°"]

In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

Well, I admire you my chaste sister Muslimah and I am proud of you as well. And appreciate your Jihad, But don’t you know that there are locked and closed minds need from you more clear words and explaining even if they will never believe you and they debate only for love debating and not to reach to truth or even guide you to it? Don’t you know that on their eyes covering? As there are open-minded accept the truth wherever it is, from the east or the west, they don’t look to anything with racialism. The closed-mind Even if there is clear truth came from us, they never accept it, Do you asked yourself someday why? I did and I knew why is that, they attack this truth only because it is come from Arab or Islam or Muhammad, they attack everything Islamic even if it is the perfect truth in their eyes. They hate us while we love them, they attack us while we try to protect them, they deny our Book while we believe in their Book and without believing it we can’t claim that we are Muslims, we believe all the prophets whom God sent to Bani Israel peace be upon him, and they grudge and be parsimonious to believe that God sent only one prophet from Bani Ishmael peace be upon him, they forgot that God blessed all the sons of our beloved father Abraham peace be upon him and forgot that God never wrong anyone but we are who wrong ourselves, God is the More Just and will never deal with the sons of his beloved chosen father Abraham with racialism, yes God chose Bani Israel and preferred them to the mankind in their time period and He still ask them by His Last Testament to remember His Favor which He bestowed upon them and to fulfill (their obligations to) His Covenant (with them) so that He fulfill (His Obligations to) their covenant (with Him). The hatred against Muslims this is what they live and die on. Shed tears my sister as I do every night, not for we are strangers in this passing world, but because we live with miserable people never know the complete truth of their Lord. Because we try and try to guide them and they try and try to insult us. Shed tears ya Muslimah for the bloods of Muslims became as Water in this world, and the blood of Muslims is cheap in their eyes but in God’s looking it is never cheap because they are martyrs in His cause. Shed tears because the world defends the animal rights while the Muslims rights are missing in this world. What only we have to do, to be patient for we didn’t get nor even taste a little bit of the terrible pain that the prophets found, nor even as little finger of them. However, didn’t the seal prophet prophesied: “The people will soon summon one another to attack you as people when eating invite others to share their dish”. I am witness that you didn’t say except the truth that Your God revealed to you through His Holy Spirit PBUH, I am witness that you O Prophet Muhammad and the Messiah Jesus and the Prophet Moses and all prophets peace be upon you all didn’t say except the truth that God revealed to you when He chose you for carry this message (the Monotheism-the True Islam).
Now my beloved, I have to blame you as a sister, why you didn’t show them that the Mountain of Sela (Sali) is in the Medina and also there is little mountain near of it called Suli’a (diminutive name), I don’t think that you never know that if you are Saudi or even Arabian acquainted with?
However, I have little addition, some of it not studied but it is only from my observation and it is need from us to study it, it is maybe truth and it is maybe carry wrong in my interpretation, however, I have no right to claim before understand, specifically because I didn’t read All the Bible, I became read at random.

1- The verse named Mecca by its limited name Bacca as what in H.Q. 3:96, in Psalms 84: 6 “Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools.”
I don’t know if my notice is truth or what, I am waiting answer from Muslims, for the Christian or the Jew will answer me without thinking deeply of the verse.

2- The verse which named Zamzam well that prophet Ishmael and his mother drank from it and which is in Paran (Mecca), and call the people who lived in it Zamzumim (adjective refer to plural). And in the commentary of the Jewish Bible it says that Zamzum in Arabic is Zamzam, (see Deuteronomy 2: 20). I don’t know, but Is me right in notice?.

3- In kabbalah (cabala) website, and inside the link “Religions” I found these words: This is similar to the Jewish idea that Mount Mariah, the Temple Mount, is the center of our world”. I know that they mean the Temple which they say that it was in Israel Land (Palestine), but isn’t the mount Mariah is the same Mount in Mecca which named Marwah (you know it shurely even if you are non-Arab Muslim, the two mountains As-Safa wa Al-Marwah in Mecca which you can’t make the piligrimage and Umrah but through them and the same in Hajj and the mount Arafat H.Q. 2:158. since Ishmael settled with his Mother Hajar in Paran desert “Mecca” (Genesis 21:21), and Maraih “Marwah” in Mecca, and the story of sacrificed was there, and the sacrificed according to the Bible be always from the firstborn (see Exodus 13:1-2 and Genesis 4:4), and the firstborn was Ishmael, then?!
And by the way, the science proved that Mecca is the center of the world, and this is a miracle of God, so, we only have to say: we believe in God and Subhanaallah.

4- I read in somewhere these words: (If you refer to Song of Solomon in Hebrew scripture, the name 'Muhammad' also mention there, please read Song of Solomon 5:16, it looks like this: "Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."), So even the name of Muhammad “ which mean the praised one” found in their Book and still no sound, maybe there is problem in their brain, I feel pity for them by God Muslimah!

5- I read in somewhere: In the Christian Bible. (a) the burden upon Arabia" ISAIAH 21:13. "Burden" = responsibility. God has imposed upon the Muslims, the duty to deliver His Message to mankind. ISAIAH mentions this after having seen the vision of a chariot of asses and a chariot of camels (ISAIAH 21:7) The chariot of asses turned out to be Jesus (PBUH) who entered Jerusalem riding on two donkeys (Matthew 21:7) Who then was of the "Chariot of Camels"?
It could be none other than Muhammad (PBUH) who came about six hundred years after the advent of Jesus Christ (PBUH). If this conclusion is not accepted, then this prophecy would still remain unfulfilled.
(b) " . . the villages that Kedar doth inhabit ISAIAH 42:11 Kedar being Ishmael's offspring. "Arabia, and all the princes of Kedar. . ." EZEKIEL 27:21
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia quotes the following from A.S. Fulton:
". . . Of the Ishmaelite tribes, Kedar must have been the most important and thus in later times the name came to be applied to all the wild tribes of the desert. It is though Kedar (Arab Keidar) that Muslim genealogists trace the descent of Muhammad from Ishmael."
(c) ". . . he (Muhammad pbuh) shined forth from mount Paran (in Arabia), and he came with ten thousand saints. DEUTERONOMY 33:2. (Referring to the conquest of Mecca). (d) " . . and I (God Almighty) will move them (the Jews) to jealousy with those (the Arabs) which are NOT A PEOPLE (a non-entity): I will provoke them (the Jews) to anger with a FOOLISH NATION," |the pre-Islamic Arabs) DEUTERONOMY 32:21

6 - I see perfect identity between the prophecy which in Isaiah 79 and the case of descending the Holy Spirit (Gabriel peace be upon him) to the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him in Hira cave, and the first Surah sent down to Muhammad the prophet peace be upon him.

If my interpretation is wrong then you must fear God and correct me and show me the right, for this is only what I saw and read and understand.
I guess maybe the people of the Book will create new names of countries and wells and put them in their maps just for make Islam and Muslims and Muhammad the biggest of liars, and wrong in wrong! But they must know that the real Muslim never lie, and the liar be with the hypocrites in the rock bottom of the Hellfire. However, if they try to deceive then their deceiving be upon themselves, and they will know if not here, then between God’s Hands.
Salaam dear Muslimah, and God be Witness that me love you in Him.

Your sister in Islam/
Huda

 

[Galilee]

i will say the same to you ¨° (peace train) °".
before dsicussing any Biblecal verse to prove that your islam is the correct religion, first please answer this question:


tell me please, do you believe that the Bible was corrupted ?
or we have the true Bible at these days ?. choose in which one out of the next 3 options you believe:

1) if you believe that the Bible was corrupted, then you can't quote it to support your belief like you did in this thread. right ?

2) if you believe that we have the true Bible, then you must believe in everything that it says, including the fact that Jesus is God and that he became flesh and dwelt among us and died on the cross to save us from our sins.

3) if you believe that some parts were corrupted and other parts are true, then how can you be sure what parts were corrupted and what parts weren't ?
how can you be sure what parts to quote ?
and how can you be sure that the verses that you quoted weren't corrupted ?

so, make up your mind please.
and only after that we can move on in discussing this issue.

and about all the rest of what you said .. we love to call it " khotbat jom'ah ". you sure know what it means.
and it makes no difference to us.

and if we start to talk about christian's life under an islamic regime we won't finish in 30 threads. plus, this isn't the right thread to talk about it

peace and love

 

[Amalcas]

2) if you believe that we have the true Bible, then you must believe in everything that it says, including the fact that Jesus is God and that he became flesh and dwelt among us and died on the cross to save us from our sins.

Again, that is not outright stated in the Bible. It can be argued that the latter is, but I have never seen evidence to the former that could be argued substantially that the probability is in favor that Christ was, in fact, God.

 

[muslimah.]

In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

Well, I admire you my chaste sister Muslimah and I am proud of you as well. And appreciate your Jihad, But don’t you know that there are locked and closed minds need from you more clear words and explaining even if they will never believe you and they debate only for love debating and not to reach to truth or even guide you to it? Don’t you know that on their eyes covering? As there are open-minded accept the truth wherever it is, from the east or the west, they don’t look to anything with racialism. The closed-mind Even if there is clear truth came from us, they never accept it, Do you asked yourself someday why? I did and I knew why is that, they attack this truth only because it is come from Arab or Islam or Muhammad, they attack everything Islamic even if it is the perfect truth in their eyes. They hate us while we love them, they attack us while we try to protect them, they deny our Book while we believe in their Book and without believing it we can’t claim that we are Muslims, we believe all the prophets whom God sent to Bani Israel peace be upon him, and they grudge and be parsimonious to believe that God sent only one prophet from Bani Ishmael peace be upon him, they forgot that God blessed all the sons of our beloved father Abraham peace be upon him and forgot that God never wrong anyone but we are who wrong ourselves, God is the More Just and will never deal with the sons of his beloved chosen father Abraham with racialism, yes God chose Bani Israel and preferred them to the mankind in their time period and He still ask them by His Last Testament to remember His Favor which He bestowed upon them and to fulfill (their obligations to) His Covenant (with them) so that He fulfill (His Obligations to) their covenant (with Him). The hatred against Muslims this is what they live and die on. Shed tears my sister as I do every night, not for we are strangers in this passing world, but because we live with miserable people never know the complete truth of their Lord. Because we try and try to guide them and they try and try to insult us. Shed tears ya Muslimah for the bloods of Muslims became as Water in this world, and the blood of Muslims is cheap in their eyes but in God’s looking it is never cheap because they are martyrs in His cause. Shed tears because the world defends the animal rights while the Muslims rights are missing in this world. What only we have to do, to be patient for we didn’t get nor even taste a little bit of the terrible pain that the prophets found, nor even as little finger of them. However, didn’t the seal prophet prophesied: “The people will soon summon one another to attack you as people when eating invite others to share their dish”. I am witness that you didn’t say except the truth that Your God revealed to you through His Holy Spirit PBUH, I am witness that you O Prophet Muhammad and the Messiah Jesus and the Prophet Moses and all prophets peace be upon you all didn’t say except the truth that God revealed to you when He chose you for carry this message (the Monotheism-the True Islam).
Now my beloved, I have to blame you as a sister, why you didn’t show them that the Mountain of Sela (Sali) is in the Medina and also there is little mountain near of it called Suli’a (diminutive name), I don’t think that you never know that if you are Saudi or even Arabian acquainted with?
However, I have little addition, some of it not studied but it is only from my observation and it is need from us to study it, it is maybe truth and it is maybe carry wrong in my interpretation, however, I have no right to claim before understand, specifically because I didn’t read All the Bible, I became read at random.

1- The verse named Mecca by its limited name Bacca as what in H.Q. 3:96, in Psalms 84: 6 “Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools.”
I don’t know if my notice is truth or what, I am waiting answer from Muslims, for the Christian or the Jew will answer me without thinking deeply of the verse.

2- The verse which named Zamzam well that prophet Ishmael and his mother drank from it and which is in Paran (Mecca), and call the people who lived in it Zamzumim (adjective refer to plural). And in the commentary of the Jewish Bible it says that Zamzum in Arabic is Zamzam, (see Deuteronomy 2: 20). I don’t know, but Is me right in notice?.

3- In kabbalah (cabala) website, and inside the link “Religions” I found these words: This is similar to the Jewish idea that Mount Mariah, the Temple Mount, is the center of our world”. I know that they mean the Temple which they say that it was in Israel Land (Palestine), but isn’t the mount Mariah is the same Mount in Mecca which named Marwah (you know it shurely even if you are non-Arab Muslim, the two mountains As-Safa wa Al-Marwah in Mecca which you can’t make the piligrimage and Umrah but through them and the same in Hajj and the mount Arafat H.Q. 2:158. since Ishmael settled with his Mother Hajar in Paran desert “Mecca” (Genesis 21:21), and Maraih “Marwah” in Mecca, and the story of sacrificed was there, and the sacrificed according to the Bible be always from the firstborn (see Exodus 13:1-2 and Genesis 4:4), and the firstborn was Ishmael, then?!
And by the way, the science proved that Mecca is the center of the world, and this is a miracle of God, so, we only have to say: we believe in God and Subhanaallah.

4- I read in somewhere these words: (If you refer to Song of Solomon in Hebrew scripture, the name 'Muhammad' also mention there, please read Song of Solomon 5:16, it looks like this: "Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."), So even the name of Muhammad “ which mean the praised one” found in their Book and still no sound, maybe there is problem in their brain, I feel pity for them by God Muslimah!

5- I read in somewhere: In the Christian Bible. (a) the burden upon Arabia" ISAIAH 21:13. "Burden" = responsibility. God has imposed upon the Muslims, the duty to deliver His Message to mankind. ISAIAH mentions this after having seen the vision of a chariot of asses and a chariot of camels (ISAIAH 21:7) The chariot of asses turned out to be Jesus (PBUH) who entered Jerusalem riding on two donkeys (Matthew 21:7) Who then was of the "Chariot of Camels"?
It could be none other than Muhammad (PBUH) who came about six hundred years after the advent of Jesus Christ (PBUH). If this conclusion is not accepted, then this prophecy would still remain unfulfilled.
(b) " . . the villages that Kedar doth inhabit ISAIAH 42:11 Kedar being Ishmael's offspring. "Arabia, and all the princes of Kedar. . ." EZEKIEL 27:21
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia quotes the following from A.S. Fulton:
". . . Of the Ishmaelite tribes, Kedar must have been the most important and thus in later times the name came to be applied to all the wild tribes of the desert. It is though Kedar (Arab Keidar) that Muslim genealogists trace the descent of Muhammad from Ishmael."
(c) ". . . he (Muhammad pbuh) shined forth from mount Paran (in Arabia), and he came with ten thousand saints. DEUTERONOMY 33:2. (Referring to the conquest of Mecca). (d) " . . and I (God Almighty) will move them (the Jews) to jealousy with those (the Arabs) which are NOT A PEOPLE (a non-entity): I will provoke them (the Jews) to anger with a FOOLISH NATION," |the pre-Islamic Arabs) DEUTERONOMY 32:21

6 - I see perfect identity between the prophecy which in Isaiah 79 and the case of descending the Holy Spirit (Gabriel peace be upon him) to the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him in Hira cave, and the first Surah sent down to Muhammad the prophet peace be upon him.

If my interpretation is wrong then you must fear God and correct me and show me the right, for this is only what I saw and read and understand.
I guess maybe the people of the Book will create new names of countries and wells and put them in their maps just for make Islam and Muslims and Muhammad the biggest of liars, and wrong in wrong! But they must know that the real Muslim never lie, and the liar be with the hypocrites in the rock bottom of the Hellfire. However, if they try to deceive then their deceiving be upon themselves, and they will know if not here, then between God’s Hands.
Salaam dear Muslimah, and God be Witness that me love you in Him.

Your sister in Islam/
Huda

In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Thank you dear sister Huda for your kind words.

And thank you for the valuable information you have posted.

I know what you have mentioned about their stubbornness & hostility, and about the prophecies you mentioned.

As for Sali’ I have said that it is in Almadinah. It does NOT matter if there are other places in other parts of the world by the same name.

For example there are many cities in different places called Cairo , Alexandria , Besides it is included in the Biblical text which I posted.

Please look at this . It is from Song of Songs 5 : 16 .
I know it is in Hebrew , but we can clearly see our Prophet’s name in it :-

"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."

This is the English translation:-

His mouth is most sweet: yea , he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved , and this is my friend , O daughters of Jerusalem.

Anyway, our task is to display the truth & pray to the Almighty God to help everyone see it.

Jazki Allahu khayran

 

[Petr]

A PROPHET IN THE LAND OF KEDAR

Prophet Isaiah is considered to be one of the major prophets of the Old Testament. In the Book of Isaiah there are several prophecies about the coming of the Messiah. In chapter 42, Isaiah begins with a prophecy for the coming of prophet Jesus. After verse number nine, God declares through Isaiah, the "new things" that are to "spring forth" in the Land of Kedar.
In the Bible there is only one personality called Kedar. He was the grandson of prophet Abraham, through his son Ishmael (see Gen. 25:13). Kedar's descendants had settled in Paran (Syno-Arabian dessert). In the Rabbinic literature Arabia is called the "Land of Kedar". Prophet Muhammad was a descendant of Kedar.
God declares through Prophet Isaiah;
"Behold, the former things are come to pass, and the new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. `Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth'. Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voices, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare His praise in the inlands." Isaiah Chapter 42, Verses 9-12.

God did reveal in the Land of Kedar, through prophet Muhammad - a direct descendant of Kedar, a "New Song" - The Qur'an (Koran). This happens to be the only Scripture to be revealed in the language of the Kedarites. The verses of the Qur'an are recited like a poem. Nearly 1.2 billion Muslims, residing all over the world, recite this "new song" and Glorify Allah, in their daily prayers, five times in a day. The initial Revelation came to prophet Muhammad in a cave of Mount Hira near the city of Mecca. There are several mountains near Mecca. During the annual Islamic Pilgrimage called "Hajj", Muslims from all over the world, assemble in Mecca and shout Glory to the Lord from the top of Mount Arafat. The pilgrims continuously give Glory to Allah on their ways, to and from Mecca.

I thought we already discussed it. The first verse makes it pretty clear about what Isaiah 42 is talking about.

Behold My Servant; I will uphold Him; My Elect in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit on Him; He shall bring forth justice to the nations.

I, Jehovah, have called You in righteousness, and will hold Your hand, and will keep You, and give You for an everlasting covenant to the people, for a Light of the nations;
to open blind eyes, to lead out the prisoner from the prison; those who sit in darkness from the prison.

Sing a new hymn to Jehovah: you who are his dominion, glorify his name from the end of the earth: you that go down to the sea, and sail upon it; the islands, and they that dwell in them.

They are singing a new hymn to Jehovah because He made a new and everlasting covenant with them

Rejoice, thou wilderness, and the villages thereof, the hamlets, and the dwellers in Kedar: the inhabitants of the rock shall rejoice, they shall shout from the top of the mountains.

It says the "dwellers in Kedar": the inhabitants of the rock shall rejoice. Now "the rock" is Sela in hebrew and it means the edomites, who are descendants of Esau, brother of Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham. Now we know that Esau mixed with Ishmaelites. Kedar is not a name of land, is it? The "dwellers in Kedar" is to be understood as "dwellers in Kedar in the land of Edom"

Isaiah is proclaiming that even those that not of "pure blood" will give glory to God and spread His message of the Covenant in the islands.

 

[moosiz]

K, I'm really confused muslimah. In effect u are actually trying to point out that the saviour of the world is through Muhammed a regular guy, who, if u have read the entire bible and not just pieced extracts together, is NOT the song of God. I think we both believe that muhammed is not jesus

 

[IronEagle]

K, I'm really confused muslimah. In effect u are actually trying to point out that the saviour of the world is through Muhammed a regular guy, who, if u have read the entire bible and not just pieced extracts together, is NOT the song of God. I think we both believe that muhammed is not jesus

She is trying to say that our savior is God Himself and none else, thats the main message of Mohammad (pbuh) and message of Quran... in a nut shell.

 

[Petr]

She is trying to say that our savior is God Himself and none else, thats the main message of Mohammad (pbuh) and message of Quran... in a nut shell.

But effectively.. the bible teaches us that everyone is a god

 

[Petr]

Now my beloved, I have to blame you as a sister, why you didn’t show them that the Mountain of Sela (Sali) is in the Medina and also there is little mountain near of it called Suli’a (diminutive name), I don’t think that you never know that if you are Saudi or even Arabian acquainted with?

http://nabataea.net/sela.html

Not in Medina, but land of Edom, which is what it undoubtfully refers to in Isaiah 42

 

[muslimah.]

http://nabataea.net/sela.html

Not in Medina, but land of Edom, which is what it undoubtfully refers to in Isaiah 42

How many times do we have to repeat the same answer ?

to recap :-

1- The prophecy is about Kedar who lived in Arabia & is a great grandfather of Prophet Muhammad

2-Sali' is included in the prophecy as the text shows

3- Islam is in Adom & all over so even if Sali' was not in Almadinah it does not change the facts

4-There are many places by the same name in different locations

5- There are other prophecies as we have seen which talks about our PROPHET PBUH

 

[Petr]

How many times do we have to repeat the same answer ?
to recap :-
1- The prophecy is about Kedar who lived in Arabia & is a great grandfather of Prophet Muhammad

Incorrect, the prophecy is about the "dwellers in Kedar". If I move to Israel, I'm a dweller in Jacob.

4-There are many places by the same name in different locations

Indeed, but only 1 place suffices all the requirements, and it is the one in Edom, todays Jordan. What does the text say about the place and what does the webpage say about it?

From the webpage:

Selah is located in the mountains of Jordan, south of the town of Tafila, along the King's Highway.

Sela was located on top of the small mountain in the center of this picture. (Taken several miles away) The mountain has very steep cliffs on all sides, and is separated from the rear mountain by a tremendous gorge with sheer rock sides.

The Bible says "the inhabitants of the rock shall rejoice", now when you look at the pictures what do you see? Mountains, rocks and rocks anr rocks!

It also says "they shall shout from the top of the mountains. ", Sela is located within large massive of mountains.

Islam is in Adom & all over so even if Sali' was not in Almadinah it does not change the facts

Right, now you are telling me that Kedar = Islam.

5- There are other prophecies as we have seen which talks about our PROPHET PBUH

Such as?

 

[Petr]

From Young's Bible concordance:

Se-la, Se'-lah - in hebrew means the rock or cliff
The capital of Edom, called also Petra, in the valley Wady Musi, between the Salt Sea and the Elantic Gulf; called Joktheel by Amaziah king of Judah after his taking it, B.C 839-822

You see it is the only place that could be significant for the Jews and Isaiah.

 

[muslimah.]

I thought we already discussed it

Sorry . I was not here

Behold My Servant; I will uphold Him; My Elect in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit on Him; He shall bring forth justice to the nations.

If Jesus was God as you claim then how could he be a servant of himself?
And how could the Spirit of God be on him?
the Spirit of God is the Archangle Gabriel who was on Prophet Muhammad while HE conveyed God's Words (Holy Quran) to him.
Prophet Muhammad PBUH brought a law which included justice for mankind because it was for all of them
unlike PROPHET JESUS PBUH who did NOT have a law
& who came for the Jews only as said in the NT
He even called others dogs.

I, Jehovah, have called You in righteousness, and will hold Your hand, and will keep You, and give You for an everlasting covenant to the people, for a Light of the nations;

How did God keep Jesus when you say that he was tortured & crucified?

unlike Prophet Muhammad who inspite of many many plots to kill him, God saved him?
Also Jesus PBUH has no lasting covenant because His Original Bible which God revealed to him has vanished
unlike Prophet Muhammad's covenent ( Holy Quran) which is found up today exactly as IT was revealed over 14 centuries ago?

to open blind eyes, to lead out the prisoner from the prison; those who sit in darkness from the prison.

The Jews were NOT blind. They had the Torah which had what they needed to know about God and had hundreds of prophets to teach them the truth

Unlike Arabs who had no prophets or revealed Books which is why the text says they were blind

Sing a new hymn to Jehovah: you who are his dominion, glorify his name from the end of the earth: you that go down to the sea, and sail upon it; the islands, and they that dwell in them.

They are singing a new hymn to Jehovah because He made a new and everlasting covenant with them
Rejoice, thou wilderness, and the villages thereof, the hamlets, and the dwellers in Kedar: the inhabitants of the rock shall rejoice, they shall shout from the top of the mountains.

The prophecy is talking about Kedar & you ignored the point.what is the relationship between him & Jesus knowing that Christianity did not spread well in Arabia.

It says the "dwellers in Kedar": the inhabitants of the rock shall rejoice. Now "the rock" is Sela in hebrew and it means the edomites, who are descendants of Esau, brother of Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham. Now we know that Esau mixed with Ishmaelites. Kedar is not a name of land, is it? The "dwellers in Kedar" is to be understood as "dwellers in Kedar in the land of Edom"

There are many places called Sela and the text includes it in the prophecy

Isaiah is proclaiming that even those that not of "pure blood" will give glory to God and spread His message of the Covenant in the islands.

Non-Arabs is what is probably meant by "not of pure blood" for they perform the pilgrimage (Haj) and glorify God in the mentioned manner

 

[muslimah.]

From Young's Bible concordance:

Se-la, Se'-lah - in hebrew means the rock or cliff
The capital of Edom, called also Petra, in the valley Wady Musi, between the Salt Sea and the Elantic Gulf; called Joktheel by Amaziah king of Judah after his taking it, B.C 839-822

You see it is the only place that could be significant for the Jews and Isaiah.

I REPEAT:-

1- The prophecy is about Kedar who lived in Arabia & is a great grandfather of Prophet Muhammad

2-Sali' is included in the prophecy as the text shows

3- Islam is in Adom & all over so even if Sali' was not in Almadinah it does not change the facts

4-There are many places by the same name in different locations

5- There are other prophecies as we have seen which talks about our PROPHET PBUH

 

[Petr]

Sorry . I was not here
If Jesus was God as you claim then how could he be a servant of himself?

Jesus is a soul, servant of God. Christ is the intercessor and the Son is God. 3 distinct personalities within one man.

and how could the Spirit of God be on him? the Spirit of God is the Archangle Gabriel who was on Prophet Muhammad while HE conveyed God's Words (Holy Quran) to him.

The Spirit of God is femine.

He brought a law which includied justice for mankind unlike PROPHET JESUS PBUH who did NOT have a law & who came for the Jews only & called others dogs.

You do not know what you are saying.

How did God keep Jesus when you say that he was torured & crucified , unlike Prophet Muhammad who inspite of many many plots to kill , God saved him?

I, Jehovah, have called You in righteousness,

Do you think that Jesus, without the Father's helping hand could lead a sinless and righteous life untill death?

Also Jesus PBUH has no lasting covenant for His Original Bile which God revealed to him has vanished
unlike Prophet Muhammad's covenent ( Holy Quran) which is found up today exactly as IT was revealed over 14 centuries ago?

Rubbish, rubbish and rubbish. Our oldest complete NT manuscript is over 17 centuries old, and half complete manuscript over 18 centuries old.

You do not have the original Quran manuscript. The oldest complete Koran manuscript is dated 790 A.D

The Jews were NOT blind. They had the Torah which had what they needed to know about God

I don't reckon a need for commenting on the absurdity of this statement.

But for your sake, John 8
38 ¶ I speak what I have seen with My Father. And you therefore do what you have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said to Him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said to them, If you were children of Abraham, you would do the works of Abraham.

The prophecy is talking about Kedar & you ignored this.

You are obviously wrong, the text would have said "My servant Kedar", like it does in 10 other places in Isaiah about God's servants.

Isaiah 20:3, 22:20, 37:35, 41:8 and more

It is talking about dwellers in Kedar, who is Esau, brother of Jecob.
And these are the generations of Esau; this is Edom.
And Esau dwelt in mount Seir; Esau, he is Edom.
Genesis 36

Hear, ye deaf, and look up, ye blind, to see. 19 And who is blind, but my servants? and deaf, but they that rule over them? yea, the servants of God have been made blind. Isaiah 42:19

 

[Petr]

I REPEAT:-

1- The prophecy is about Kedar who lived in Arabia & is a great grandfather of Prophet Muhammad

For the last time, it doesn't speak about Ishmaelites, if it spoke about them, then it would be mentioned. It is speaking about dwellers in Kedar, if I moved to Israel, I would be a dweller in Jacob.

 

[Galilee]

Hi muslimah.
you wanted to discuss Biblical verses that you think they talk about your prophet mohammed.
you want to support your islam with Biblical verses.

but you can't do that.
i asked you a question 3 times and for some reason you kept ignoring it.

this question is for all the muslims who want to take part in this thread.

tell me please, do you believe that the Bible was corrupted ?
or we have the true Bible at these days ?. choose in which one out of the next 3 options you believe:

1) if you believe that the Bible was corrupted, then you can't quote it to support your belief like you did in this thread. right ?

2) if you believe that we have the true Bible, then you must believe in everything that it says, including the fact that Jesus is God and that he became flesh and dwelt among us and died on the cross to save us from our sins.

3) if you believe that some parts were corrupted and other parts are true, then how can you be sure what parts were corrupted and what parts weren't ?
how can you be sure what parts to quote ?
and how can you be sure that the verses that you quoted weren't corrupted ?

so, make up your mind please.
and only after that we can move on in discussing this issue.
ok ?


and i'm asking all of our christian brother's not to answer anything that any muslim says about any Biblical verse that he uses to support islam before the muslim answers this question.

and i'm also asking all of our christian friends not to say anything in this thread before we get the answer for this question from muslimah or any other muslim friend who wants to take part in it.

because it's not acceptable that at some threads thay claim that the Bible was corrupted, and in other threads they use Biblical verses to support their islam.


waiting for your answer muslimah.

peace and love

 

[JTruth]

A PROPHET IN THE LAND OF KEDAR

Prophet Isaiah is considered to be one of the major prophets of the Old Testament. In the Book of Isaiah there are several prophecies about the coming of the Messiah. In chapter 42, Isaiah begins with a prophecy for the coming of prophet Jesus. After verse number nine, God declares through Isaiah, the "new things" that are to "spring forth" in the Land of Kedar.
In the Bible there is only one personality called Kedar. He was the grandson of prophet Abraham, through his son Ishmael (see Gen. 25:13). Kedar's descendants had settled in Paran (Syno-Arabian dessert). In the Rabbinic literature Arabia is called the "Land of Kedar". Prophet Muhammad was a descendant of Kedar.
God declares through Prophet Isaiah;
"Behold, the former things are come to pass, and the new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. `Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth'. Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voices, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare His praise in the inlands." Isaiah Chapter 42, Verses 9-12.

God did reveal in the Land of Kedar, through prophet Muhammad - a direct descendant of Kedar, a "New Song" - The Qur'an (Koran). This happens to be the only Scripture to be revealed in the language of the Kedarites. The verses of the Qur'an are recited like a poem. Nearly 1.2 billion Muslims, residing all over the world, recite this "new song" and Glorify Allah, in their daily prayers, five times in a day. The initial Revelation came to prophet Muhammad in a cave of Mount Hira near the city of Mecca. There are several mountains near Mecca. During the annual Islamic Pilgrimage called "Hajj", Muslims from all over the world, assemble in Mecca and shout Glory to the Lord from the top of Mount Arafat. The pilgrims continuously give Glory to Allah on their ways, to and from Mecca.

I dont understand how muslims who claim that the Bible is corrupt, end up quoting it only when its convenient. I guess its not corrupt? Galilee made an important point but you seem to avoid the question. The verse mentions two places, kedar and sela which means where does this prophet come from? Sela is no sali. The other thing you seem to avoid is the beginning of chapter 42.This whole verse is for the Israelites. The servant will not shout or raise his voice. He will not crush the weakest rod. And if you know english, it says "Join in the chorus you desert towns" Islam is said to be its own religion, new. Join in, doesnt mean it originated from Kedar or Sela. Why do you just take the first few verses that suit your needs and omit the whole chapter? After it mentions Kedar and SELA (dont forget sela) it says HE will destroy the green hills which sela is near Tafilah which has these beauties then it mentions how it will dry up rivers into dry lands. This doesnt sound good for Kedar or Sela. Kedar is a huge desert isnt it. Anyways.Verse 19 says who is blind as my own people, my servant? Who is deaf as my messenger? Who is this deaf messenger? This is after verse 17 where it mentions those who trust in idols. So if Kedar is about muhammad and GOD is condemning those who follow idols in verse 17, why in verse 19 does it say the messenger is deaf? Islam is against the jews but you are using the old testament which if you go on to chapter 43, you will see that GOD is bringing them back and protecting them.Chapter 43 verse 3 says - For I am the Lord your GOD. The Holy savior. I gave Egypt as a ransom for your freedom.I gave Ethiopia and Seba in your place. If you are right about Kedar than its not a good thing. Maybe GOD used the Kedars to punish Israel but the messenger was deaf because those who followed idols did not truly sing a new song because it is a know fact that in the Kaaba, along with all the idols was the top idol name Alah, the moon god. There is no denying that the arabs worshiped an idol that is the moon god and it was called alah. So instead of leaving Israel with them GOD sacrificed Egypt, Ethiopia, and Seba in its place. GOD goes on in this chapter to say that HE will gather Israel from east to west, ransom them. I can twist anything I want if I use only verses I choose to create my own truth. Does that mean its right? I must admit though, what I came up here does make sense. Jesus criticized the Pharisees because they were hypocrites. Using a book that you call corrupted and use verses that suits your needs and then omit the rest is exactly the same as the Pharisees. But because you use even one verse, you verify the authenticity of the Bible as a complete truth and uncorrupted. I really want to know something. Is it okay to get engaged to a 6 year old child and marry her when shes 9, then consummate the marriage before she has her menstruation. Even if she did have her menstruation, this would be wrong. Aisha was still playing with dolls which is allowed only until she becomes a woman. Muhammad consummated the marriage before she had her menstruation which is against Islam. To me its immorally wrong even before 18 and 18 is to young for a 50 year old man. This is in your hadiths. In Indonesia recently, a leader of islam was charged for doing this with an 11 year old. How about that? Was it right for Muhammad to marry a 9 year old girl and sleep with her? Its a fact that islam believes that a girl becomes a woman when she has her menstruation so they allow a man to marry and sleep with her so long as she has her menstruation. Aisha, Abu Bakrs daughter, did not menstruate when Muhammad had sex with her. This means he did not follow allahs law or the quran. The other thing that gets me is how can Abu Bakr be the next in line to lead muslims when Ali was Muhammads adopted son and the chosen successor? Also, Abu Bakr went to Ali's house to force him to submit to him and when Ali refused to come out they kicked the door down and Fatima was behind it with Muhammads unborn grandchild in her, killing the unborn baby which constitutes murder. Then when Ali took over later on, he was murdered by an opponent and so were many other leaders. How can you use verse 42 when it has to do with Jesus, the servant of GOD in this verse at the beginning. I hope you are not angry or offended because I did not type anything thats untrue. Its all facts and in the hadiths, sayings of the prophet and other islam writings. I can go on and on with truth and facts that come directly from your religion. Its not about whos right or wrong. Read everything your religion has to offer and dont ask imans or anyone else. Be honest with yourself and you will see that something is wrong. You quote the Bible and use it against the jews when its so clear that in the end, GODs people is the Israelites and he made an everlasting covenant with them so it wont change into a new religion like islam. Jesus came an fulfilled the old testament and showed the true way to interpret it and how to live by it because the Pharisees and others were writing the kabalah and other traditions, just like how islam has hadith and sunnah. Doesnt the quran say that you should only follow the quran? GOD is the final judge, not muslims who want to force people to convert. GOD gaves us free will to follow HIS way or not to. If GOD wanted to force people to Love HIM, HE would have destroyed satan from the beginning and made man follow and force him to love HIM. Thats why theres judgement day. Islam is not the police of religion, no one is. Praise GOD, that we choose to love HIM because HE loves us more if we do it on our own. Instead of reading the Bible to suit your needs, read it all and see that thats HIS message. Take time and do it before you say anything.

 

[SanFrank]

Isaiah 21 is about the destruction a man from the tents of kedar commits.I can't look at that chapter without thinking about 9-11 cause here you have an Arab flying,coming and you look and destruction is all around,Babylon has fallen fallen.
Oh my people,my people crushed on the threshing floor.The one year time limit is very interesting because 1 year after 9-11 an armada of British and U.S. war planes bombed Babylon on Rosh Hashanna begining the first major offensive taking out S.A.M's,On the next Rosh Hashanna in Sept Rome went into total darkness when a blackout occured and last month on Rosh Hashannah something happened also but I couldnt say without hurting peoples feelings.

Well this takes us back to another time. I never noticed that babylon fell on RH 2002. Good call.

Eventhough muslim apologetics uses the Bible in their arguments at least they're reading it which is a step most muslims cannot take.