A Prophecy or Command?

[A71]

Law of Nature?

Yes. God laid out various Laws of Nature.
Basic stuff really. The planetary motions,
Laws of propagation, the whole natural world.

Women he made moody, menstrual, and needy. Its their basic nature. Law of nature.

Women and men are just very different. That is nature at work. Simple

 

[royal priest]

Actual results point to the opposite.

During periods in history where women are treated as possessions instead of another human being, are also the most lawless periods in Earth's history.

Countries who restrict the liberties of women are also the worst countries to live in the world and one of the biggest perpetrators of human rights abuses.

Contrasting countries who actually respect and protect their women and grant and uphold equal liberties have the least crime rates, least number of poor, and highest citizen satisfaction rates in the world!

Oppression of women is another manifestation of mankind's natural tendency to pervert the Biblical model.
But, as far as the OP is concerned, radical attempts of the feminist movement to denigrate the male role in society are a direct fruit of what God had pronounced upon the woman in Genesis 3.
Regarding those who recognize the natural order of the family which you had observed; social prosperity can be beneficial, but unless such a society implements those aspects of human rights in a way that applies Paul's specific directives in Ephesians 5, they not only fail to emulate the biblical model, but in a more profound way, pervert God's norms for society in general.

 

[hedrick]

I don't really see it as curse. A woman can repent of her sin and refuse to obey men who make unreasonable demands.

But you need to look at it as part of the whole section.

• increase in pain of childbirth
• the man rules over the woman
• the ground is cursed, getting food out of it requires toil; it's got thorns and thistles
• you eat bread only when sweating
• you will die

These are punishments. Childbirth, work, and agriculture are all good things, but the punishment turns what should be good bad.

For that reason it's hard to believe that the ruling over woman here is normal. If you believe in a godly submission of women (which I don't), this isn't it. This is the punitive version.

 

[A71]

The Laws of nature precede Mosaic Law. These are what Paul is applying.

 

[dreadnought]

Yes. God laid out various Laws of Nature.
Basic stuff really. The planetary motions,
Laws of propagation, the whole natural world.

Women he made moody, menstrual, and needy. Its their basic nature. Law of nature.

Women and men are just very different. That is nature at work. Simple

This is news to me.

 

[dreadnought]

But you need to look at it as part of the whole section.

• increase in pain of childbirth
• the man rules over the woman
• the ground is cursed, getting food out of it requires toil; it's got thorns and thistles
• you eat bread only when sweating
• you will die

These are punishments. Childbirth, work, and agriculture are all good things, but the punishment turns what should be good bad.

For that reason it's hard to believe that the ruling over woman here is normal. If you believe in a godly submission of women (which I don't), this isn't it. This is the punitive version.

But he never commands the woman to obey the man. He just states that it will occur.

 

[dreadnought]

The Laws of nature precede Mosaic Law. These are what Paul is applying.

I am aware of no such laws that we are bound to.

 

[A71]

You are automatically the head of the house.
You take a wife not a boyfriend, and so on and so on.

Maybe modern society has eroded these concepts, but they are still God's Laws

 

[dreadnought]

You are automatically the head of the house.
You take a wife not a boyfriend, and so on and so on.

Head of the house?

 

[A71]

Christ is the head of the man, man is head of the woman

 

[hedrick]

But he never commands the woman to obey the man. He just states that it will occur.

Right. Nor are any of the other things commands.

 

[dreadnought]

Christ is the head of the man, man is head of the woman

That's what Paul thought, if I remember correctly.

 

[A71]

He is just re-iterating natural law

 

[dreadnought]

Right. Nor are any of the other things commands.

He did say, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing."

 

[dreadnought]

He is just re-iterating natural law

We are bound the the law of the Lord. We are bound to no other law.

 

[A71]

Natural Law is the law of the Lord.

 

[dreadnought]

Natural Law is the law of the Lord.

Who said?

 

[A71]

God is a God of order, not chaos. He makes things in a certain way, to have certain functions. Everything he designs has a design purpose, including the man and the woman. A key part of our design is to propagate. That is our nature. It is a Law of Nature; God says he designed Eve for Adam, and men and women to become one.
Breaking Natural Law can be done by for example homosexuality or bestiality. These are explicitly laid out in Mosaic Law, but they are clearly Laws from creation.
In fact they are very obvious, but God spelt them out because the Canaanites were so perverted he did not want Israel to pick up their ways.

 

[dreadnought]

God is a God of order, not chaos. He makes things in a certain way, to have certain functions. Everything he designs has a design purpose, including the man and the woman. A key part of our design is to propagate. That is our nature. It is a Law of Nature; God says he designed Eve for Adam, and men and women to become one.
Breaking Natural Law can be done by for example homosexuality or bestiality. These are explicitly laid out in Mosaic Law, but they are clearly Laws from creation.

He issued commandments. We obey, if we're smart. I'm not aware he ever told us we had to yield to nature. Remember how he would revive dead people, and then rose again after his own death?

 

[A71]

The fool denies there is a God.
Any normal person can see the basic logic of nature, and thereby the hand of God. If we wish to subvert and deny nature, we also subvert and deny God. Bad move.