A Pro-Choice Consideration

[luvmyirishman]

That's 50 blessings for you... for choosing life. May your courage and strength be a shining beacon of hope for all Mothers and even Fathers out there. God bless you.

Thank you. God Bless.

 

[luvmyirishman]

Something always seems to deter me from empathy, but I feel it's probably because some people have a story in their life that involves the thoughts and opinions of other people, rather than the thoughts of themselves.

I'd think if you're going through a decision such as birth, one might think about it as your decision and your partner's, not your parents, community, church, whoever. Just seems like undue stress that holds no reason to be brought upon.



..... story seemed so random at the time.

I don't think you understood my post. I was not worried about other peoples judgement, my parents were.
Anyway what exactly did you want to hear? A bedtime story? A plot to a sitcom? I guess real life situations are just to random and boring for some. By the way do you have a story in your life that only includes only yourself and your feelings?

 

[Dyrwen]

Probably not off the top of my head, no. Although I know how stories can help some people relate, to me they just appear random.

I'm just odd.

 

[Lifesaver]

other people's choices to make what choices they want with their lives

That's right, their lives. Not the baby's. Being pro-choice is advocating the right for women to kill their children.

How are privacy and individual freedom being respected when a baby gets murdered?

 

[Dyrwen]

To me, that "child" isn't a child. Just a zygote or fetus growing in a womb.

It'll get its right to an attorney when it comes out, before then, too bad. I'm sure others have a better thought on the matter, but I'm blunt.

 

[Blessed75]

I in no way wanted to "lump" abortion with murder and rape, but show how wrong your argument was in making it a religous issue.

wrong in your opinion. btw, do you know how many teens and women would die if abortion were illegal? They would think the only alternative would be to do it themselves - like what used to happen. So to make abortion illegal in my opinion - is WRONG.

 

[Blessed75]

That's right, their lives. Not the baby's. Being pro-choice is advocating the right for women to kill their children.

How are privacy and individual freedom being respected when a baby gets murdered?

IN YOUR OPINION........

 

[Lifesaver]

To me, that "child" isn't a child. Just a zygote or fetus growing in a womb.

No matter what you call it, it will naturally become a child.
How is killing the fetus any less morally wrong than killing the child?
In both cases a human being was positively prevented from existing.

It'll get its right to an attorney when it comes out, before then, too bad. I'm sure others have a better thought on the matter, but I'm blunt.

This is even worse!!
A late-term baby inside the womb already feels and is psychologically equal to a recently-born one!

The same is true for early abortion, only that most people never give any thought about it, so it is understandable why they can't see it.

 

[Lifesaver]

IN YOUR OPINION........

Yes, it is my opinion that murder is wrong.

 

[Dyrwen]

You seem to be missing that I already think a certain way and apparently your emotional reasoning and attempts to say when life begin do not make sense to me and won't.

I don't feel it is a human being just because it can become one at birth. It's an opinion that happens to be mine. I never asked you to share it, just allow people to do what they can do with their bodies and what dwells in them.

 

[Lifesaver]

You seem to be missing that I already think a certain way and apparently your emotional reasoning and attempts to say when life begin do not make sense to me and won't.

A zygote is already a living being. There isn't one single second in which the fetus cease to be living and becomes dead matter. You should know this.

I'm also not saying a fetus only becomes a human only when it is born. This makes no sense at all, since there is no relevant difference between a fully-developed baby inside the womb and after its birth.

I don't feel it is a human being just because it can become one at birth. It's an opinion that happens to be mine. I never asked you to share it, just allow people to do what they can do with their bodies and what dwells in them.

What you "feel" or not shouldn't really matter in questions of morality. Some feel that black people are an inferior type of human. Should we allow them this "freedom" in regards to treatment to other ethnicities?

Unless you can give some good moral difference between killing a fetus and a born person you have no basis at all to justify this feeling of yours, let alone to justify the murder of fully developed late-term pre-born babies.

Feel what you will, it can still be wrong.

I do ask people to share my opinion that it is wrong to murder at their will, but even if they don't, it is imperative that they must abide by it.

 

[Dyrwen]

What you "feel" or not shouldn't really matter in questions of morality. Some feel that black people are an inferior type of human. Should we allow them this "freedom" in regards to treatment to other ethnicities?

People should be allowed to dislike anyone they please, so long as it doesn't deny the other person's right to an equal job or situation. Can't stop people from feeling what they want. The KKK can have their marches just like any black person can. You make it look like whites deserving a chance to kill black fetuses in the womb is an option with your wording, which is beyond insane.

Unless you can give some good moral difference between killing a fetus and a born person you have no basis at all to justify this feeling of yours, let alone to justify the murder of fully developed late-term pre-born babies.

Feel what you will, it can still be wrong.

I do ask people to share my opinion that it is wrong to murder at their will, but even if they don't, it is imperative that they must abide by it.

A fetus is a parasitic organism living off the woman, not a living human being existing on it's own. If it were in an egg sac like most other animals and not an imbellical cord, you may have had a chance to make some sense with me since it'd live on it's own more easily then.

I'll feel what I will, as you say, and it may be right to me, I never expected it to be right to you. Keep your opinions, I prefer legislature.

 

[Lifesaver]

People should be allowed to dislike anyone they please, so long as it doesn't deny the other person's right to an equal job or situation. Can't stop people from feeling what they want. The KKK can have their marches just like any black person can. You make it look like whites deserving a chance to kill black fetuses in the womb is an option with your wording, which is beyond insane.

Honestly, I have no idea what you just tried to say.

A fetus is a parasitic organism living off the woman, not a living human being existing on it's own. If it were in an egg sac like most other animals and not an imbellical cord, you may have had a chance to make some sense with me since it'd live on it's own more easily then.

What about the born baby? Isn't it parasitic like a leeche sucking off it's nourishment from the host?

Really, attempts to liken fetuses to parasites show a complete lack of understanding on biology and, even more importantly, a completely twisted view on morality. The same analogy could be used with basically any human relation.
In the end, it becomes clear that this image is only used by pro-choicers who feel their position is threatened.

I'll feel what I will, as you say, and it may be right to me, I never expected it to be right to you. Keep your opinions, I prefer legislature.

That's a good ground for morality.
Basically, if you lived in the 50s, you'd be for racial segregation. If you lived in the 19th century, you would have no big qualms with slavery.

In short, I advise you to open your eyes and realize that even the law can be wrong.

 

[Blessed75]

Yes, it is my opinion that murder is wrong.

NO dear, it's your opinion that abortion is murder.....

 

[Dyrwen]

NO dear, it's your opinion that abortion is murder.....

^That about sums it up.

 

[Magisterium]

NO dear, it's your opinion that abortion is murder.....

Actually, it's a scientific fact that abortion is homicide. following is an excerpt from another post of mine about this which I've utilized earlier in this thread...

Human in this context will refer to the genus and species of the homo-sapient. It is a scientific fact that when the genetic material of a male and female homo-sapient combine, the outcome will necessarily be another homo sapient. Therefore, scientifically speaking, (apart from any religious discussion of a soul) we have established that from conception, we have genetically unique homo-sapient "material".

Next we must determine if it is a "living being". Again, scientifically speaking, the most fundamental of all life indicators is metabolism. Once the egg and sperm unite, metabolism immediately begins. Additionally, the first act of self preservation (see my earlier post in this thread) occurs before cell division even begins. So therefore, according to strictly scientific standards, we have at conception, a discernable unique organism of the homo-sapient genus/species.

Think this is new information? It's not! In fact, this Objective scientific criterion for the discernment of life was disregarded in the Roe Vs. Wade decision in favor of a Subjective appearance-based criterion. This travesty is not apparent to the unlearned and therefore many have substituted passion for solid understanding. As a result, they have placed much emotion behind a faulty premise.

This is also why there are many who oppose Roe Vs. Wade on simply legal, scientific, and ethical grounds. Appearance is the absolute least reasonable or definitive criterion to discern human (or any other) life.

It's not a choice, it's a LIFE! (scientifically speaking that is)

 

[luvmyirishman]

A fetus is a parasitic organism living off the woman, not a living human being existing on it's own. If it were in an egg sac like most other animals and not an imbellical cord, you may have had a chance to make some sense with me since it'd live on it's own more easily then.


[/QUOTE]

I hope my children never think that. What a horrible thought, Does your mom know you have these feelings? I hope she would not call you a parasite!

 

[Lifesaver]

NO dear, it's your opinion that abortion is murder.....

No dear, it's your opinion that abortion isn't murder. Until you come up with a good argument, there is no reason to differentiate between a very young human and a fully grown one.

 

[Lifesaver]

^That about sums it up.

No, it didn't at all. But since you don't seem to be interested in any form of intelligent debate, and rather pretend you are right, go ahead cheerleading those who agree with you and providing no evidence for your moral distinction between younger and older organisms.

 

[DXRocker73]

A baby in the womb is alive whether anyone likes it or not, the scientific classification on what is alive is that it has to be growing, maturing, and replacing it's own dying cells. Denying that is like denying that the Television set was ever invented.

And scientfically speaking, the baby is human as well. Not to mention logically, I mean really, I don't know about you, but I've never heard of even one woman giving birth to a baby of any other species than human. Until then, the "it's not human" argument is not only a lie, but it's laughable.

So let's see, scientifically, you are killing seeing as how you are taking life away, and the life just so happens to be human... not to mention the baby has committed no crime, nor can defend itself... yeah it's not murder. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Don't even try to use the "how many girls will die from self-induced abortion" argument with me. I have no sympathy for people who do something like that. It's just like people who die from drug overdoses, they did the drugs, they pay the price. Likewise, people who get STDs I feel the same way about.

As for babies in the womb living off the mother... oh please. Can an infant survive on his/her own? Didn't think so, still fails to give good reason for killing.