A pre-Tribulation Rapture: Lengthy

[Christy4Christ]

ahh yes Toney it is, but can we say that it is impossible that this means there will be a pre-trib rescuing of His faithful?

 

[Benedicta00]

The truth is the verse does clearly say that He is going to spare those who have followed His command to persevere from the trial.. It's pretty plainly stated. What exactly do we believe that means? Thats really what I intend to ask. What does the church say about that? How will He be sparing us from the trial that comes upon the whole world?

The Church does not say anything about as it is an opinion IIRC. How do you know that we aren't already living through the trail? His grace, if you are in a state of grace, you will have nothing to fear, you will be protected, He will be your refugee, this of course does not mean that you won’t suffer persecutions. It means you will have the grace to persevere if you are one of His elect.

 

[Toney]

ahh yes Toney it is, but can we say that it is impossible that this means there will be a pre-trib recusing of His faithful?

Absolutely not, Christy. And as for Rev: 10, unless you are very good with Greek verbs, the argument as to whether the passage refers to pre- or to post- tribulation rapture is dubious.

They is just no good answer. There is good advice, however.

Be ready.

 

[Christy4Christ]

I know...Shelb, the only trouble I have with what you said is that if we suffer any persecution at all then He didn't really spare us, did He?

 

[Christy4Christ]

Guys this isn't a big deal to me I am just exploring the possibilities, it's not a bad thing to study the bible as long as you recognize that you may not always be right in your interpretations. I do not profess to be right here, I do think it is an interesting topic given all the different sides..

 

[Benedicta00]

I know...Shelb, the only trouble I have with what you said is that if we suffer any persecution at all then He didn't really spare us, did He?

He spared/is sparing the elect from falling into sin, from being deceived by error.

 

[Benedicta00]

Guys this isn't a big deal to me I am just exploring the possibilities, it's not a bad thing to study the bible as long as you recognize that you may not always be right in your interpretations. I do not profess to be right here, I do think it is an interesting topic given all the different sides..

Christy studying the bible is fine but you must be able to study in light of the Church’s teaching and assent to the authority of the Church, not self-interpretation.

 

[Christy4Christ]

Shelb, the church doesn't teach one way or another on this subject though, as far as I know anyway...

All I really know is that they don't believe in 3 comings of Christ and I can tell you that I don't either..

 

[Benedicta00]

Shelb, the church doesn't teach one way or another on this subject though, as far as I know anyway...

All I really know is that they don't believe in 3 comings of Christ and I can tell you that I don't either..

Then you are free to believe as long as your beliefs do not contradict the Church and you do not believe this as it is infallible truth.

 

[Christy4Christ]

I agree with Toney's advice...since it is a mystery..



Be ready!

 

[Toney]

Here is something you may interpret for yourself, Christy. And I realize that your son has done a great deal of reading and research on John the Divine, Revelation and eschatological theory. I am refering to private revelation.

For instance, Sister Lucy is reported to have said we are living in Revelation, Chapter 8 in these times. It is hard to quibble with a passage like, (paraphrasing) a star fell from Heaven and a third of the waters were poisoned, etc. And the name of the star is Wormwood. Well, as most of you probably know, Wormwood in Russian is Chernobyl.

I don't want this to sound like a commercial for a thread, but I have posted Lady of All Nations because of the rather imminent warnings from the deceased seer.

I think that if we want to focus on the End Times, private revelation is no more murky a puddle of water than amateur Biblical exegesis.

 

[geocajun]

fwiw, "Christ, on His second coming, will judge all men" (De Fide)

 

[Benedicta00]

I agree with Toney's advice...since it is a mystery..



Be ready!

And that is what I always said. I am more worried about my own end time. You can be called home any moment and there are those worried about the last days? It makes no logical sense.

I have a Catholic BIL who thinks that sparing may mean physical death of the elect who God wishes to spare living through the trials and the persecution that the Church is going through. It can mean anything.

 

[geocajun]

Christy, also, David B. Currie is a pretty sharp ex-protestant turned Catholic, and he wrote this very, very long book (528 pages) on the subject of the rapture.
you may consider reading it

Rapture: The End-Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind
by David B. Currie

 

[Christy4Christ]

I know Geo but I was puzzled by this...

Revelation 3 :10-11

"Because you have kept my command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth" 11"Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown"

Sorry, it's just that you said you didn't see it anywhere in the bible, that could mean just that. Who is He going to be keeping from the trial that will come upon the whole earth? What trial is that?

See that shows that after some are spared, some will be left to go through trial...

 

[Christy4Christ]

LOL this could go on all night, anyone want to play scripture ping pong?

 

[geocajun]

Christy, I don't know if anyone has told you this before, but its pretty common advice to stay out of the book of revelation until you have a great handle on sound doctrine (the same goes for Mariology).
I have read of scholars who have spent the latter part of their life trying to decode Revelation and not made much progress.

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Well, reading that scripture, two immediate questions come to mind that I do not know the answers to. Is the trial the same as the tribulations? Also what is meant by "keep you from"?

 

[Christy4Christ]

Well, reading that scripture, two immediate questions come to mind that I do not know the answers to. Is the trial the same as the tribulations? Also what is meant by "keep you from"?

I dunno, I was hoping maybe you did..

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

No, I have not put much study into this area. I am probably going to read the book that I recommended to your son the next chance I get. I have not read the book, it has just been recommended to me by people that are learned about this subject, and are devout Catholics.