A powerful statement made by EGW.

[Endium]

This is a very inspiring testimony in how you turned from your sin to follow God. The problem though is that eating in itself is not sinful, in other words, gluttony is the sin of eating just as drunkenness is the sin of wine and adultery is the sin of sex. But we can't say eating is sinful nor can we say drinking a glass of wine or having a sexual relation with your spouse is sinful because the Bible does not allow us to due so.

If you saw your friend over eating you may tell him your testimony but if you saw your friend eating a chicken salad sandwich you wouldn't. This is my point from the begining. If people are not over eating, getting drunk or commiting adultery there is no need to give them counsel. But we become fanatic if we say God is watching you eat that chicken salad sandwich or God is watching you drink that glass of white wine or God is watching you and your wife in your bedroom. These things are not sinful in themselves so why say we need to abstain from them so we can serve God?

It is very hard for a person to condemn someone for something unless they themselves feel they are totally above doing it. Someone who goes around condemning people for eating chicken sandwiches wouldn't do that unless they don't eat it themselves. The person who is constantly condemning others, therefore, probably places his or herself on a pedestal so high that they are clinging to a form of legalism, which is salvation by works. They value their own works to such an extent that they see their own salvation in the works, and then raise this as a standard for every other believer.

I don't want to argue whether it is wrong to drink wine or eat meat. Everyone has the choice to choose what they believe and everyone has their own convictions. It is not my job to accuse fellow brothers and sisters before God. I believe their is another who already holds that title and does his job quite well.

However, I do believe that a SDA must decide whether they believe that Ellen White was a prophet of God. There are no half prophets. If you believe Ellen White was from God, as I do, then you will accept her testimony. If you believe that Ellen White was mistaken in condemning meat, wine, sugar, etc.. then it is interesting that you would hold any of her counsel to any light. Ellen White based her life on the health message, and even went as far as to say that our preachers who do not keep it and teach it have no business leading God's people.

 

[honorthesabbath]

At the risk of having another person put me on ignore from correcting their medical information. The above is not accurate for the post prandial dip. As the following tells us, you could also check Wikipedia;

Why we need a siesta after dinner






The mystery of why we often feel sleepy after eating a big meal may finally have been resolved. Researchers have discovered that high blood glucose levels, similar to those after eating a big meal, can switch off the brain cells that normally keep us awake and alert.
The findings make evolutionary sense since sleepiness could be the body’s way of telling us to relax and conserve energy once we have found and eaten our food, says Denis Burdakov of the University of Manchester, UK, who led the research.

Oh my--now I understand!!!!!!!! Shuuu--weeeeeee!

 

[Loveaboveall]

At the risk of having another person put me on ignore from correcting their medical information. The above is not accurate for the post prandial dip. As the following tells us, you could also check Wikipedia;

We just had a study on this a couple weeks ago in sabbath school and the teacher, who is a general surgeon, presented some studies which were alarming. I will talk with him and present them here when I get them. One did a study on College level students, they were studying what was the best and worst foods to eat while studying. The worst was... Cheese Pizza. They found this food to put a high percentage of students to sleep within 1 - 1 1/2 hours. Thus they were not able to study because they were sleeping. The theorized what I had posted previously that with a high fat food meal less oxygen reaches the brain which shuts down the brains function.

The point being, when you eat rich foods they slow down your brain function, when your brain function is slowed your sensitivity to the Holy Spirit is impaired. When your sensitivity is impaired..... you better be careful!

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

We just had a study on this a couple weeks ago in sabbath school and the teacher, who is a general surgeon, presented some studies which were alarming. I will talk with him and present them here when I get them. One did a study on College level students, they were studying what was the best and worst foods to eat while studying. The worst was... Cheese Pizza. They found this food to put a high percentage of students to sleep within 1 - 1 1/2 hours. Thus they were not able to study because they were sleeping. The theorized what I had posted previously that with a high fat food meal less oxygen reaches the brain which shuts down the brains function.

The point being, when you eat rich foods they slow down your brain function, when your brain function is slowed your sensitivity to the Holy Spirit is impaired. When your sensitivity is impaired..... you better be careful!

It has long been realized that it is related to our insulin level during digestion of a meal, see the wikipedia article
Postprandial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

there is also the fact that during digestion your central core area is busier but there is nothing I have seen to indicate fat would be absorded fast enough to thicken the blood. Fat is the last part of food to be digested.

 

[Loveaboveall]

If it was just digestion than it would not matter what you ate. There was a statistical difference b/w Cheese pizza and any of the other foods tested.

 

[Mankin]

This rich food thing seems to me just another thing that makes Adventists look weird compared to other Christians. I am not saying that the health message is bad, but it does go a little far at times.

 

[maco]

This rich food thing seems to me just another thing that makes Adventists look weird compared to other Christians. I am not saying that the health message is bad, but it does go a little far at times.

AMEN!!! Preach it...

 

[Mankin]

Thanks. Sorta funny though, I am preaching next week for youth Sabbath at my church.

 

[djconklin]

"The children of God cannot glorify him with sickly bodies or dwarfed minds. Those who indulge in any species of intemperance, either in eating or drinking, waste their physical energies and weaken moral power.-- C. T., p. 53. {HL 55.2"

Many of the beliefs within the SDA community are based on these kinds of statements made by EGW. What are we to make of statements like this? Are we to say that handicap people can't glorify God?

1) That isn't the point of what she is getting at.

Think of it this way: you had 100% of your capabilities to offer to the Lord. {"sarcasm" mode on} But, no! You just had to satisfy the desires of the flesh and went a drinking and eating to satisfy your taste buds and ruined your health so that when it came time to make your testimony and give witness to the power of the Lord people could see it because you were at 100%! {"sarcasm" mode off} Got the point?

2) We had a guy in our church who had cerebal palsy and 2 Ph.Ds! When he prayed you could hear a pin drop in the church--and we were always complaining about how noisy it was in church! He did the best he could with what he had. Now if he had been drinking, etc. would he have been able to do the same? No!

 

[Loveaboveall]

Annie,

I understand how you can take this the wrong way as the OP, it appears, took the quote out of context and thus has not shed the correct light on it. You probably did not see DJ latest post which clarifies what Mrs. White was intending to say which is in complete harmony with the life of Jesus. Do you think Jesus would have eaten/drunk one thing that would have limited his ability to do the will of the father. Seeing as how He was in constant communion with Him even a slight decrease in brain function would have limited His ability to glorify His father, which by the way He did not do but the Spirit working through Him.

You wanted something biblical to back this up, that is fair enough and I would hope that all those in here who have wanted to jump on Maco's bandwagon would think about this story. We all know it, but maybe we have put it in the back of our minds.

Daniel and His Friends Obey God
(cf. 2 Kin. 24:10-17)
In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. 2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with some of the articles of the house of God, which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the articles into the treasure house of his god.

3 Then the king instructed Ashpenaz, the master of his eunuchs, to bring some of the children of Israel and some of the king's descendants and some of the nobles, 4 young men in whom there was no blemish, but good-looking, gifted in all wisdom, possessing knowledge and quick to understand, who had ability to serve in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the language and literature of the Chaldeans. 5 And the king appointed for them a daily provision of the king's delicacies and of the wine which he drank, and three years of training for them, so that at the end of that time they might serve before the king. 6 Now from among those of the sons of Judah were Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah. 7 To them the chief of the eunuchs gave names: he gave Daniel the name Belteshazzar; to Hananiah, Shadrach; to Mishael, Meshach; and to Azariah, Abed-Nego.
8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's delicacies, nor with the wine which he drank; therefore he requested of the chief of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself. 9 Now God had brought Daniel into the favor and goodwill of the chief of the eunuchs. 10 And the chief of the eunuchs said to Daniel, "I fear my lord the king, who has appointed your food and drink. For why should he see your faces looking worse than the young men who are your age? Then you would endanger my head before the king."
11 So Daniel said to [fn1] the steward whom the chief of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, 12 "Please test your servants for ten days, and let them give us vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then let our appearance be examined before you, and the appearance of the young men who eat the portion of the king's delicacies; and as you see fit, so deal with your servants." 14 So he consented with them in this matter, and tested them ten days.
15 And at the end of ten days their features appeared better and fatter in flesh than all the young men who ate the portion of the king's delicacies. 16 Thus the steward took away their portion of delicacies and the wine that they were to drink, and gave them vegetables.
17 As for these four young men, God gave them knowledge and skill in all literature and wisdom; and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.
18 Now at the end of the days, when the king had said that they should be brought in, the chief of the eunuchs brought them in before Nebuchadnezzar. 19 Then the king [fn2] interviewed them, and among them all none was found like Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah; therefore they served before the king. 20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding about which the king examined them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers who were in all his realm. 21 Thus Daniel continued until the first year of King Cyrus.

 

[Loveaboveall]

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Temperance--Thayer's
1) self-control (the virtue of one who masters his desires and passions, esp. his sensual appetites)

How many of us can honestly say that we have done this, I know I can't. It is a constant battle with me with certain foods and it is all about letting the Spirit work in you, for it is a fruit of the Spirit. Honestly, if ALL of us struggle with this, and you do if you live in fast-food america; why are we even discussing if it is okay to indulge? We should be focusing on mastering the things we want to indulge in! The Spirit can only work in a willing heart.

 

[maco]

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Temperance--Thayer's
1) self-control (the virtue of one who masters his desires and passions, esp. his sensual appetites)

How many of us can honestly say that we have done this, I know I can't. It is a constant battle with me with certain foods and it is all about letting the Spirit work in you, for it is a fruit of the Spirit. Honestly, if ALL of us struggle with this, and you do if you live in fast-food america; why are we even discussing if it is okay to indulge? We should be focusing on mastering the things we want to indulge in! The Spirit can only work in a willing heart.

Abstaining from foods other than what God has commanded is a doctrine founded outside of the Bible. To teach we must abstain from foods other than what God's says is to place unnecessary burdens on people that are not authorized by God and are in accordinance with the doctrines and commandments of men.

Now, if one desires to eat a certain way for a personal goal than that is fine but a personal goal must not be estabisled as a doctrine for a church to command and be followed by all.

 

[maco]

Has anyone read in the Bible that Jesus drank wine and ate meat? He would never make it as an Adventist.

Oh yah I forgot it was grape juice and vegiburgar. How could I have missed that? Silly me...

 

[djconklin]

Has anyone read in the Bible that Jesus drank wine and ate meat?

Christ ate fish and lamb, not pork and crab. He never drank wine; grape juice, yes. "Wine is a mocker ..."

 

[maco]

Christ ate fish and lamb, not pork and crab. He never drank wine; grape juice, yes. "Wine is a mocker ..."

I have seen many bottles of wine in my time and not once did any of the say anything. This tells me that it's not the wine that is mocking but those who abuse it.

I didn't say Jesus ate crab and pork, I said He ate meat which is frowned upon by SDAs.

 

[Luv2fish]

Maco,
I've only been on these forums for a short time & am still reading and learning who posters are. I'm curious as to why you became an SDA? What attracted you to our doctrines?
(I figure asking direct quesions will speed the learning process up for me! )
~~georiga

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Christ ate fish and lamb, not pork and crab. He never drank wine; grape juice, yes. "Wine is a mocker ..."

Actually since Passover is in the spring it is highly doubtful that there was grape juice to drink. Preservation techniques that allowed for it to be grape juice were not really invented yet. It might have been possible to use dryed grapes to make a watery drink that might taste somewhat Grape like but probably not too appetizing. It might also have been possible to make a syrup concoction that could be mixed with water, but even as a syrup it is the sugar that acts as the perservative and without sugar as we know it the only other choice would be honey. A possibility at least for the richest of people.

To assume that it was some type of grape juice means that you have to take it away from the context of the times. Of course saying wine is a mocker is merely to use one text while there are many also in praise of wine.

I don't care if people drink or not but we have to be honest with the context and meaning of the Bible, that is the first step in Christian understanding.

 

[maco]

To assume that it was some type of grape juice means that you have to take it away from the context of the times. Of course saying wine is a mocker is merely to use one text while there are many also in praise of wine.

I don't care if people drink or not but we have to be honest with the context and meaning of the Bible, that is the first step in Christian understanding.

Amen...

 

[maco]

Maco,
I've only been on these forums for a short time & am still reading and learning who posters are. I'm curious as to why you became an SDA? What attracted you to our doctrines?
(I figure asking direct quesions will speed the learning process up for me! )
~~georiga

Hi Luv2fish,

I'm a Sabbath keeper, I don't eat unclean meats, I believe the dead are dead awaiting one of two resurrections, I believe the fourth beast kingdom is the Vatican city and the Papel seat, I believe the preexistent Christ is Michael the Archangel, I beleve the kingdom of God will be on earth, I believe the wicked will be destroyed, not burning forevere in a place under the earth.

I don't exalt Ellen White to the place that SDA have exalted her. I read what she has to say and if it doesn't conflict with Scripture I receive it as needed in the same way I would do with any Christian writer.

I receive the health message as a tool to help people live healthier or recover from health problems associated with food abuse. I don't receive the health message as a way to holiness or righteousness. I also don't received the over exaggeration of the dangers of snacks in how they can hinder people from serving God. I don't receive any of the over exaggeration of the many things that SDA's hold to be true such as the dangers of Jass music, no jewelry, no dance, no wine, no fiction stories, no cinema and so on.

I hope this helps...

Many blessings,
John

 

[Luv2fish]

Thanks John,
Didn't mean to hijack the thread. I can usually figure out people from reading their posts, then again sometimes it's just easier to ask flat out.
I believe in EGW, just like the Bible, the writings must be in context. Like her saying kids shouldn't have bicycles. Seems strange now, but substitute Wii or Xbox and you've got the same reasoning. Parents shouldn't be spending that kind of money.
Now, back to the action..........