A powerful statement made by EGW.

[maco]

"The children of God cannot glorify him with sickly bodies or dwarfed minds. Those who indulge in any species of intemperance, either in eating or drinking, waste their physical energies and weaken moral power.-- C. T., p. 53. {HL 55.2"

Many of the beliefs within the SDA community are based on these kinds of statements made by EGW. What are we to make of statements like this? Are we to say that handicap people can't glorify God? Are we to say the mentally challenged can't glorify God either? Let me say something, I have met many sickly people and people with dwarfed minds who glorify God in such a way that it would bring tears to your eyes. I wish I could see this kind of glory coming from healthy people.

To say we can't glorify God because we have an occational twinkie or soda pop is way off base. To say eating and drinking is a waste of our time, energy and weakens our moral power is quite a powerful statement. So if I don't eat a twinkie I won't lust after woman? I can now see the moral influence of soda and candy. First comes the soda then the candy the next thing you know I'm robbing banks.

According to EGW, if I don't eat these things I will be a powerful machine working for the Lord. I'm not so sure about that. I have been involved with the SDA for some time now and I have not seen too many powerful machines out there in the SDA community. It seems to me that whenever something is planned it's like pulling teeth to get healthy church members to help or even show up.

Remember what the Lord of host said to Zerubbabel.

Zechariah 4:6 So he answered and said to me: "This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the Lord of hosts.

We can eat all the health food we want and be the healthiest people alive and live to be 120 but always keep this in mind, "Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit," says the Lord of hosts.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Maco--I honestly pray that someday the veil will be lifted from off your heart so you will be able to receive the higher wisdom.

That sensitive wisdom comes only from the Holy Spirit. Your constant rantings against the SOP shows the condition of your heart. You misunderstand her writings as you do the scriptures. I'm sure you will construe this a 'flaming'--but it is not. I plead with you from the bottom of my heart to humble yourself and find peace with God.

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[maco]

Maco--I honestly pray that someday the veil will be lifted from off your heart so you will be able to receive the higher wisdom.

That sensitive wisdom comes only from the Holy Spirit. Your constant rantings against the SOP shows the condition of your heart. You misunderstand her writings as you do the scriptures. I'm sure you will construe this a 'flaming'--but it is not. I plead with you from the bottom of my heart to humble yourself and find peace with God.

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Everything I have said all throughout my posts on these forums I have backed up with Scripture on top of Scripture. I believe the health message is good and able to help people enjoy a more fuller life but if the spirit behind the health message begins to over ride the clear teachings of Scripture and causes those who promote the health message to manipulate the word of God to fit their beliefs then the health message becomes just another form of traditions and commandments of men or in this case woman. If we lower the clear teachings of Scripture and exalt health food and the physical body, which God will destroy both in the end, then the health message just becomes another idol we put before God.

I agree that health and exercise is good for this life but to manipulate Scripture and bring about unwarranted guilt and condemnation when someone eats meat or drinks wine effects the life to come.

1 Timothy 4:8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come.

If someone doesn't eat meat or drink wine he is no more holy or righteous than someone who does neither is he unhealthy. So why put these burdens on people by what we're teaching in making them think they are unholy or unrighteous if they eat meat or drink wine and even worst yet, why cause them to think someone else is unholy or unrighteous if they eat meat or drink wine. What a powerful tool to bring about division within the body of Christ, as well as, within our earthy families.

You may say to me, "We don't bring guilt on these people for eating meat or drinking wine, they may not have understanding in this area yet". This is a very clever and subtle statement to make people think they are wrong and in need of light or higher wisdom in this area. What a subtle way to bring about guilt and condemnation.

The Bible tells us that the weaker people are those who believe drinking wine and eating meat is sinful or wrong, it's they who need more light. It's not the other way around.

My desire is to put the health message in perspective in that it's a way to help people enjoy life as healthier people and not a means to righteousness or holiness. Now don't tell me that the health message is not presented this way because I have heard leaders in the SDA teach that people won't be in the kingdom if they drink wine or continue to eat unhealthy. These statements have to do with righteousness and holiness but what sayeth Paul?

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

 

[capnator]

Maco I really am starting to get the picture that you have a burning passion set us straight on health

I love you brother.

Maybe you have been rubbing shoulders with a different group of S.D.A's than I have. From what I've seen there is more of a problem with member's not following the health message than going all fanatical about it (although that definately happens)!

My understanding of this is, eating isn't sin whether that's porkchops, or custard tarts, twinkies or coca cola.

However we must Seek first God's kingdom, and our bodies are God's temple.. to limit this to health is way way understating this verse, but I still think it applies to the physical sphere. If we are knowingly taking onboard substances that will limit/dwarf/harm our physical being then we will not be able to serve God in the same capacity as we otherwise would have.

There is undoubtedly a link between physical mental and spiritual spheres of our being.

If we for example drink alcohol it effects our mind and our mind is the tool we use to communicate with the divine.

E.G.W has so much good information on all of this, you would get a lot out of reading what she has to say.

 

[maco]

Maco I really am starting to get the picture that you have a burning passion set us straight on health

I love you brother.

Maybe you have been rubbing shoulders with a different group of S.D.A's than I have. From what I've seen there is more of a problem with member's not following the health message than going all fanatical about it (although that definately happens)!

My understanding of this is, eating isn't sin whether that's porkchops, or custard tarts, twinkies or coca cola.

However we must Seek first God's kingdom, and our bodies are God's temple.. to limit this to health is way way understating this verse, but I still think it applies to the physical sphere. If we are knowingly taking onboard substances that will limit/dwarf/harm our physical being then we will not be able to serve God in the same capacity as we otherwise would have.

There is undoubtedly a link between physical mental and spiritual spheres of our being.

If we for example drink alcohol it effects our mind and our mind is the tool we use to communicate with the divine.

E.G.W has so much good information on all of this, you would get a lot out of reading what she has to say.

You say there are more people within the SDA not following the health message then there are who are following it. According to SDA beliefs, what do you say will happen to those people who don't follow the health message? If your answer is they will not experience the joy of a healthy life. Then I have no problem with that but if your answer is God will judge them in the end as an unbeliever or one who is destroying the temple of God then I do have a problem with that and so does God.

Eating meat, drinking wine, coffee, eating candy, cookies and pies all in moderation will not hinder you serving God nor will it make you unholy or unrighteous. Saying one can't partake of this stuff in moderation because it will prevent you from serving God or at least slow you down is a fanatical statement and unrealistic.

I agree it's always better to be healthy and to eat right but to say we must abstain from sugar, vinigar, white bread, meats, snacks and so on because you won't be able to serve God is not true. I agree that if you're so fat from over eating that you can't leave the house is a problem and may be the sin of gluttony if it's not a medical reason.

I eat pies, candy, cookies, ice cream, pancakes with real maple syrup but I also eat salad, fruit, whole wheat bread, as well as, chichen and fish occasionally. According to EGW I am not following the health message yet my wife and I have raised a family of two boys, I hold a full time job, do prison Bible studies every week for sex offenders, do missionary work in Honduras where I built a free medical clinic, trained the police department and done prison minsitry in Honduras, as well as, work with youth and disaster response training with ACS here in the states. I do not feel hindered or morally weak by my unapproved diet.

I believe following the health message should be a personal choice based on ones desire to be healthier and happier not based on a fanatical unrealistic belief that eating snacks occasionally or having a glass or two of wine will hinder you so you must abstain or you will be sinning in God's eyes. This is where the problem lies.

 

[reddogs]

You say there are more people within the SDA not following the health message then there are who are following it. According to SDA beliefs, what do you say will happen to those people who don't follow the health message? If your answer is they will not experience the joy of a healthy life. Then I have no problem with that but if your answer is God will judge them in the end as an unbeliever or one who is destroying the temple of God then I do have a problem with that and so does God.

Eating meat, drinking wine, coffee, eating candy, cookies and pies all in moderation will not hinder you serving God nor will it make you unholy or unrighteous. Saying one can't partake of this stuff in moderation because it will prevent you from serving God or at least slow you down is a fanatical statement and unrealistic.

I agree it's always better to be healthy and to eat right but to say we must abstain from sugar, vinigar, white bread, meats, snacks and so on because you won't be able to serve God is not true. I agree that if you're so fat from over eating that you can't leave the house is a problem and may be the sin of gluttony if it's not a medical reason.

I eat pies, candy, cookies, ice cream, pancakes with real maple syrup but I also eat salad, fruit, whole wheat bread, as well as, chichen and fish occasionally. According to EGW I am not following the health message yet my wife and I have raised a family of two boys, I hold a full time job, do prison Bible studies every week for sex offenders, do missionary work in Honduras where I built a free medical clinic, trained the police department and done prison minsitry in Honduras, as well as, work with youth and disaster response training with ACS here in the states. I do not feel hindered or morally weak by my unapproved diet.

I believe following the health message should be a personal choice based on ones desire to be healthier and happier not based on a fanatical unrealistic belief that eating snacks occasionally or having a glass or two of wine will hinder you so you must abstain or you will be sinning in God's eyes. This is where the problem lies.

Please my brothers dont argue over such minor issues, we are all 'dead men walking' physically and spiritually unless we seek Christ first and foremost.

Everything that is good for the body is a blessing, making that the 'first and foremost' in your life however is a sin just as any other thing that becomes more important in our lives than God and salvation throught His Son Jesus Christ.......

 

[djconklin]

Eating meat, drinking wine, coffee, eating candy, cookies and pies all in moderation will not hinder you serving God nor will it make you unholy or unrighteous.

Really? How do you know that?

having a glass or two of wine will hinder you so you must abstain or you will be sinning in God's eyes.

"Debra Bolton had a glass of red wine with dinner. That's what she told the police officer who pulled her over. That's what the Intoxilyzer 5000 breath test indicated -- .03, comfortably below the legal limit."

found at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/11/AR2005101101968_pf.html

"A single glass of wine will impair your driving more than smoking a joint. And under certain test conditions, the complex way alcohol and cannabis combine to affect driving behaviour suggests that someone who has taken both may drive less recklessly than a person who is simply drunk.A single glass of wine will impair your driving more than smoking a joint. And under certain test conditions, the complex way alcohol and cannabis combine to affect driving behaviour suggests that someone who has taken both may drive less recklessly than a person who is simply drunk."

found online at http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2063-alcohol-impairs-driving-more-than-marijuana.html

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar .." Sounds like if you don't, then you are sinning because you are disobeying God. Why would any Biblical Christian want to impair their mind and body in any shape, manner, or form?

 

[Loveaboveall]

You say there are more people within the SDA not following the health message then there are who are following it. According to SDA beliefs, what do you say will happen to those people who don't follow the health message? If your answer is they will not experience the joy of a healthy life. Then I have no problem with that but if your answer is God will judge them in the end as an unbeliever or one who is destroying the temple of God then I do have a problem with that and so does God.

If a person has a burning desire to follow God and has
joined the SDA church then they have acknowledged that part of obeying God is taking care of our bodies, not only because it is the temple of God(which you dispute) but also because we can only worship God with a clear mind.

Have you ever notice when you eat a big lunch you get sleepy? Do you know why that is? Most people eat way to much fat in their diet, when you eat a big lunch with lots of fat, it actually thickens your blood and less oxygen makes it to the brain, thus you become sleepy. How does this affect your ability to discern the HS speaking to you? That is for you to decide, but there is not a thing that you eat or drink that will not affect your brain in a postive or negative way in some form or fashion. Wouldn't it be better to choose the positive?

Back to your point... I believe it is sad to say that many SDA's, and for that matter christians, are sleeping at the wheel and are comfortable in there psuedochristian life. They have not nor want to give their lives COMPLETELY to their savior. I am by no means saying that if a person eats meat they are in this condition, but to generalize, those who do not follow a healthy lifestyle probably are not able to be temperate in other parts of their life.

 

[maco]

Really? How do you know that?



"Debra Bolton had a glass of red wine with dinner. That's what she told the police officer who pulled her over. That's what the Intoxilyzer 5000 breath test indicated -- .03, comfortably below the legal limit."

found at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/11/AR2005101101968_pf.html

"A single glass of wine will impair your driving more than smoking a joint. And under certain test conditions, the complex way alcohol and cannabis combine to affect driving behaviour suggests that someone who has taken both may drive less recklessly than a person who is simply drunk.A single glass of wine will impair your driving more than smoking a joint. And under certain test conditions, the complex way alcohol and cannabis combine to affect driving behaviour suggests that someone who has taken both may drive less recklessly than a person who is simply drunk."

found online at http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2063-alcohol-impairs-driving-more-than-marijuana.html

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar .." Sounds like if you don't, then you are sinning because you are disobeying God. Why would any Biblical Christian want to impair their mind and body in any shape, manner, or form?

How do I know these things in moderation don't hinder you, because millions of Christians do it daily and serve the Lord just fine. Also the Bible does not forbid their use in moderation.

As far as Debra Bolton goes, having a glass or two of wine does make the heart glad, in other words, it will effect you, this is what makes wine so unique. This is what God's word says in a positive way. Now drinking and driving is wrong in the same way over driving by not taking time to rest is wrong.

 

[StormyOne]

Maco good luck in attempting to make your point here.... I suspect you will meet more opposition than agreement, in spite of the fact that you use scripture to support your position....

 

[maco]

If a person has a burning desire to follow God and has
joined the SDA church then they have acknowledged that part of obeying God is taking care of our bodies, not only because it is the temple of God(which you dispute) but also because we can only worship God with a clear mind.

Have you ever notice when you eat a big lunch you get sleepy? Do you know why that is? Most people eat way to much fat in their diet, when you eat a big lunch with lots of fat, it actually thickens your blood and less oxygen makes it to the brain, thus you become sleepy. How does this affect your ability to discern the HS speaking to you? That is for you to decide, but there is not a thing that you eat or drink that will not affect your brain in a postive or negative way in some form or fashion. Wouldn't it be better to choose the positive?

Back to your point... I believe it is sad to say that many SDA's, and for that matter christians, are sleeping at the wheel and are comfortable in there psuedochristian life. They have not nor want to give their lives COMPLETELY to their savior. I am by no means saying that if a person eats meat they are in this condition, but to generalize, those who do not follow a healthy lifestyle probably are not able to be temperate in other parts of their life.

Having an occasional snack, or eating white bread and yes even having a glass of wine does not constitute living unhealthy and does not negate a desire to live for God. To you it might but not to every one else around you. You may think not eating these things is what God requires but others may believe God whats us all to jog five miles every day. Some say drinking milk is unhealthy while others say its not. I believe our bodies will tell us when we are over doing anything. It's in the over doing of things that makes an unhealthy life style.

Also I don't debate the body being the temple of the Holy Spirit. I do debate that every use of the word temple in the Bible is referring to the body.

 

[Mankin]

Many of EGW things about those type of issues do not apply to our life today. They applied to her life back in the 19th century. Maco, do not let people get you down. You are just trying to prove your point.

 

[Mankin]

From what you have posted, I have seen that you are wise and have a passion for God. God told us through Solomon in Proverbs to be slow to believe. The Bible tells us to question things.

 

[Jon0388g]

"The children of God cannot glorify him with sickly bodies or dwarfed minds. Those who indulge in any species of intemperance, either in eating or drinking, waste their physical energies and weaken moral power.-- C. T., p. 53. {HL 55.2"

Many of the beliefs within the SDA community are based on these kinds of statements made by EGW. What are we to make of statements like this? Are we to say that handicap people can't glorify God? Are we to say the mentally challenged can't glorify God either? Let me say something, I have met many sickly people and people with dwarfed minds who glorify God in such a way that it would bring tears to your eyes. I wish I could see this kind of glory coming from healthy people.

To say we can't glorify God because we have an occational twinkie or soda pop is way off base. To say eating and drinking is a waste of our time, energy and weakens our moral power is quite a powerful statement. So if I don't eat a twinkie I won't lust after woman? I can now see the moral influence of soda and candy. First comes the soda then the candy the next thing you know I'm robbing banks.

According to EGW, if I don't eat these things I will be a powerful machine working for the Lord. I'm not so sure about that. I have been involved with the SDA for some time now and I have not seen too many powerful machines out there in the SDA community. It seems to me that whenever something is planned it's like pulling teeth to get healthy church members to help or even show up.

Remember what the Lord of host said to Zerubbabel.

Zechariah 4:6 So he answered and said to me: "This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the Lord of hosts.

We can eat all the health food we want and be the healthiest people alive and live to be 120 but always keep this in mind, "Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit," says the Lord of hosts.

I opened this thread thinking "great, something positive about EGW."

I thought it was too good to be true.



Jon

 

[maco]

I have really been contemplating getting out of the SDA church but every now and then someone within the church says something that makes me realize we are all trying understand and grasp what God desires of us all. This really blesses me to know that I'm not the only one struggling with these things with in the church. I understand that the SDA has the most truth out of any denomination in the world, this is why I'm here. But I truely struggle with adding unnecesssary burdens on people by calling something sin when in fact it is not. I have no problem encouraging people to eat and live healthy but to tell them they can't have a glass of wine or wear moderate and simple jewelry I feel is over stepping the Bible. I don't want to turn people away from a truth seeking and teaching church because of some man made traditions. I guess I will just continue to struggle with these things until the Lord comes.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Have you ever notice when you eat a big lunch you get sleepy? Do you know why that is? Most people eat way to much fat in their diet, when you eat a big lunch with lots of fat, it actually thickens your blood and less oxygen makes it to the brain, thus you become sleepy. How does this affect your ability to discern the HS speaking to you? That is for you to decide, but there is not a thing that you eat or drink that will not affect your brain in a postive or negative way in some form or fashion. Wouldn't it be better to choose the positive?

At the risk of having another person put me on ignore from correcting their medical information. The above is not accurate for the post prandial dip. As the following tells us, you could also check Wikipedia;

Why we need a siesta after dinner






The mystery of why we often feel sleepy after eating a big meal may finally have been resolved. Researchers have discovered that high blood glucose levels, similar to those after eating a big meal, can switch off the brain cells that normally keep us awake and alert.
The findings make evolutionary sense since sleepiness could be the body’s way of telling us to relax and conserve energy once we have found and eaten our food, says Denis Burdakov of the University of Manchester, UK, who led the research.


“It has been known for a while that people and animals can become sleepy and less active after a meal, but the brain signals responsible for this were poorly understood,” he says.


Burdakov’s team studied a group of brain cells called orexin neurons, which are found in the hypothalamus and produce proteins called orexins that are essential for maintaining normal wakefulness in humans. These neurons are less active at night and when they malfunction this can lead to narcolepsy, where sufferers cannot stay awake.
Firing rate

Previously, researchers have shown that orexin neurons can be inhibited by glucose, but it was not known how sensitive they were. Burdakov’s team exposed orexin neurons to subtle changes in glucose levels similar to those that occur in the blood during daily cycles of eating and hunger, then measured their firing rate.


“What we discovered is the activity of the neurons can be turned off by minute elevations in glucose associated with normal meals,” says Burdakov. The glucose is thought to act on potassium ion channels in the neurons’
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9272-why-we-need-a-siesta-after-dinner.html

 

[djconklin]

because millions of Christians do it daily and serve the Lord just fine.

They may seem to do so to you; but, only God knows for sure.

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Also the Bible does not forbid their use in moderation.

The Bible never says that it is okay to drink wine in moderation.

 

[Endium]

All I will say here is my own personal experience.

Up until recently I used to be a big heavy eater. I would never considered myself full until not another bite could fit in my stomach. I loved the feeling of eating so much that I had to go lie down cause I didn't have the energy or power to do anything else. Now was I fat person? Not at all. I exercised, I play alot of sports, and get plenty of air. Nearly every sport I play I usually play just as well or better than my peers. Was I still a Christian? Yes. Did I serve God? Yes. Was I saved? Yes.

After reading Ellen White I realized the woes of my eating habit. I started to realize that I was really incapacitating myself. My overeating would render me unable to think clearly. Not only overeat at meals, but once the sleepy feeling wore off, I would eat again. This led to me eating maybe 4 meals a day with snacks in between sometimes. I also ate big meals late at night. This would leave me largely in a state where I was incapable or unwilling to do any type of deep mind taxing work, spiritual or otherwise.

Now I am not going to my actions made me so "unrighteous" that I was condemned to hell. I was physically fit and able to do everything. I maintained a 3.9 GPA all throughout highschool and college. By most standards, I was doing pretty well for myself. Does all of this mean that my overeating was OK to God? I don't think so, and there is a reason why.

Let me say what happened after I asked God for the strength to cut back my meals and overeating. My sleep became better. I felt better during the day. Yes, all the health benefits were all there. But the most significant were the spiritual benefits.

After I stopped overeating, I started to notice something. Oftentimes after meals I would find God presenting something or someone in my path. For example, an old friend would unexpectedly call, and our conversation would turn to God. A spiritual topic would pop into my mind, and I would start an unplanned study of the Bible. Someone would message me on msn messenger, and our conversation would turn deeply spiritual.

If I had overeaten during those meals beforehand, I would have been in no way able to hold a spiritual conversation about Christ. I would definitely not be able to study the Bible, because I would be too sleepy! Even if I wasn't too sleepy, I wouldn't be interested in doing anything that would tax my mind. However, once I stopped overeating, all of these things started to present themselves. Now I am not saying that after every meal something significant happens, but only giving my experience so far. So what if it only happens 1 time in the whole month? Who am I to question God if He wants to teach me something right after a meal? Who am I to question God's timing? All I can do is be ready at all times.

My point is, you never know when God will call you to service. You never know when God will put someone in your path for you to witness to. As representatives, even slaves of Christ, we should be ready, willing, and able to step up to the plate at all times during the day. If I render my mind incapable of deep thought through overindulgence in my meal, I am no use to God. If I eat a huge meal, so much so that afterwards there is nothing for me to do but to sleep or lay mindlessly, what would be the result of the friend who calls? What if God had something to teach me, would I even be able to hear His voice?

God has blessed me and given me the strength to eat more moderate meals. As a result, my personal relationship with God is better. I will not condemn anyone who overeats, because I was there myself. I know how it is. But if I see a friend who is overeating, you better believe I will let him know. I will let him know of the dangers, and even if he doesn't like it, I have a duty to tell him what his actions are doing to him. I have a responsibility to tell him that His relationship with God is not as good as it could be. I am not doing it to throw a guilt trip, or to make him feel that he is unsaved because of his actions. My friend may feel that I am trying to limit him, but that is not the case at all.

 

[maco]

All I will say here is my own personal experience.

Up until recently I used to be a big heavy eater. I would never considered myself full until not another bite could fit in my stomach. I loved the feeling of eating so much that I had to go lie down cause I didn't have the energy or power to do anything else. Now was I fat person? Not at all. I exercised, I play alot of sports, and get plenty of air. Nearly every sport I play I usually play just as well or better than my peers. Was I still a Christian? Yes. Did I serve God? Yes. Was I saved? Yes.

After reading Ellen White I realized the woes of my eating habit. I started to realize that I was really incapacitating myself. My overeating would render me unable to think clearly. Not only overeat at meals, but once the sleepy feeling wore off, I would eat again. This led to me eating maybe 4 meals a day with snacks in between sometimes. I also ate big meals late at night. This would leave me largely in a state where I was incapable or unwilling to do any type of deep mind taxing work, spiritual or otherwise.

Now I am not going to my actions made me so "unrighteous" that I was condemned to hell. I was physically fit and able to do everything. I maintained a 3.9 GPA all throughout highschool and college. By most standards, I was doing pretty well for myself. Does all of this mean that my overeating was OK to God? I don't think so, and there is a reason why.

Let me say what happened after I asked God for the strength to cut back my meals and overeating. My sleep became better. I felt better during the day. Yes, all the health benefits were all there. But the most significant were the spiritual benefits.

After I stopped overeating, I started to notice something. Oftentimes after meals I would find God presenting something or someone in my path. For example, an old friend would unexpectedly call, and our conversation would turn to God. A spiritual topic would pop into my mind, and I would start an unplanned study of the Bible. Someone would message me on msn messenger, and our conversation would turn deeply spiritual.

If I had overeaten during those meals beforehand, I would have been in no way able to hold a spiritual conversation about Christ. I would definitely not be able to study the Bible, because I would be too sleepy! Even if I wasn't too sleepy, I wouldn't be interested in doing anything that would tax my mind. However, once I stopped overeating, all of these things started to present themselves. Now I am not saying that after every meal something significant happens, but only giving my experience so far. So what if it only happens 1 time in the whole month? Who am I to question God if He wants to teach me something right after a meal? Who am I to question God's timing? All I can do is be ready at all times.

My point is, you never know when God will call you to service. You never know when God will put someone in your path for you to witness to. As representatives, even slaves of Christ, we should be ready, willing, and able to step up to the plate at all times during the day. If I render my mind incapable of deep thought through overindulgence in my meal, I am no use to God. If I eat a huge meal, so much so that afterwards there is nothing for me to do but to sleep or lay mindlessly, what would be the result of the friend who calls? What if God had something to teach me, would I even be able to hear His voice?

God has blessed me and given me the strength to eat more moderate meals. As a result, my personal relationship with God is better. I will not condemn anyone who overeats, because I was there myself. I know how it is. But if I see a friend who is overeating, you better believe I will let him know. I will let him know of the dangers, and even if he doesn't like it, I have a duty to tell him what his actions are doing to him. I have a responsibility to tell him that His relationship with God is not as good as it could be. I am not doing it to throw a guilt trip, or to make him feel that he is unsaved because of his actions. My friend may feel that I am trying to limit him, but that is not the case at all.

This is a very inspiring testimony in how you turned from your sin to follow God. The problem though is that eating in itself is not sinful, in other words, gluttony is the sin of eating just as drunkenness is the sin of wine and adultery is the sin of sex. But we can't say eating is sinful nor can we say drinking a glass of wine or having a sexual relation with your spouse is sinful because the Bible does not allow us to due so.

If you saw your friend over eating you may tell him your testimony but if you saw your friend eating a chicken salad sandwich you wouldn't. This is my point from the begining. If people are not over eating, getting drunk or commiting adultery there is no need to give them counsel. But we become fanatic if we say God is watching you eat that chicken salad sandwich or God is watching you drink that glass of white wine or God is watching you and your wife in your bedroom. These things are not sinful in themselves so why say we need to abstain from them so we can serve God?

 

[maco]

Maco good luck in attempting to make your point here.... I suspect you will meet more opposition than agreement, in spite of the fact that you use scripture to support your position....

This is what frustrates and saddens me.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

Tell me, is this exalted health message a message from Jesus or the Apostles? If not then it's something new that's turning us away from truth no matter how good it sounds as it scratches the itching ear.