• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

A Possibe Concept to help explain the Incarnation

moneyholster

Active Member
Jul 12, 2015
25
2
35
✟22,756.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If Jesus is to God the Father as the Sun's rays are to the Sun, then the Father is the core. Jesus is the imprint of God. So why would we worship the Sun's light when we can worship the Sun itself. Because if you worship the Sun's light, you are by effect worshipping the Sun itself. So Jesus isn't God himself or a sinful man, but the imprint or image of God. He's his representation on Earth. Jesus is one with God, but this doesn't mean he isn't distinct from the other aspects of the trinity. It seems to fit well with Jesus' behavior to say he had a seperate consciousness from God. He was limited by the flesh so he prayed to the Father, which is his source. If they had the same consciousness, he would not have to pray or communicate with the Father. In that view, the Father would be directly controlling the body, which isn't biblical. This raises the mind-boggling question: "How are Jesus and God one, if they have seperate minds?" It seems to make no sense. But this is where science and philosophy come in. If I asked you, would you let me destroy your brain and then replace it with an exact copy? The sane answer would be to say, "No! That would be a new and different person!" But consider this. Naturally, the nuerons in our brain are slowly replaced over our life time. What if you sped this up? Imagine that if while you were conscious, a surgeon replaced nueron by nueron of your brain with some new, fancy, artificial nuerons, you would still be the same person. There would be no point where you became a totally new person. Why not speed it up even more and just throw out all the nuerons at once and replace them with artificial nuerons. It's the same thing. The same information which is the essence of you. If you continued with this, you could argue that multiple copies of your brain are all the same essence. They would all be in perfect unison of judgement, authority, and everything else, because they'd have the same mind. An analogy of how this relates to God is this. Your playing Sims 30. You could have three seperate scenarios representing possible views of the incarnation. One would be that you, outside the game, would directly control a character in the game while still having access to all the cheats. That's a single reference frame. Another way is if you were the outside presence, but a random AI controlled a character in the game and you communicated with you via some version of prayer. The one that I'm trying to describe would be like if you were on the outside, but an exact copy of your mind was given to the character. You had seperate frames of reference and roles. You would communicate with prayer. Although the ingame-you would be the same as the you-outside-the-game, the ingame-you would be "emptied" of his access to cheats. You'd still both be the same person. This is just my speculations and I may not have conveyed these thoughts well. Maybe this is a possibility.

What are you're thoughts on this? Did I miss a view? What's the correct way to view the incarnation or will we ever understand it?
 

Paradoxum

Liberty, Equality, Solidarity!
Sep 16, 2011
10,712
654
✟35,688.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
When I was Christian, my view was that Jesus was an avatar of God the Father. If the personality of God was made to fit a human brain, it would be Jesus. Also, the mind of Jesus was in some sense connected to the mind of the Father.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
24,813
11,608
Space Mountain!
✟1,370,621.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If Jesus is to God the Father as the Sun's rays are to the Sun, then the Father is the core. Jesus is the imprint of God. So why would we worship the Sun's light when we can worship the Sun itself. Because if you worship the Sun's light, you are by effect worshipping the Sun itself. So Jesus isn't God himself or a sinful man, but the imprint or image of God. He's his representation on Earth. Jesus is one with God, but this doesn't mean he isn't distinct from the other aspects of the trinity. It seems to fit well with Jesus' behavior to say he had a seperate consciousness from God. He was limited by the flesh so he prayed to the Father, which is his source. If they had the same consciousness, he would not have to pray or communicate with the Father. In that view, the Father would be directly controlling the body, which isn't biblical. This raises the mind-boggling question: "How are Jesus and God one, if they have seperate minds?" It seems to make no sense. But this is where science and philosophy come in. If I asked you, would you let me destroy your brain and then replace it with an exact copy? The sane answer would be to say, "No! That would be a new and different person!" But consider this. Naturally, the nuerons in our brain are slowly replaced over our life time. What if you sped this up? Imagine that if while you were conscious, a surgeon replaced nueron by nueron of your brain with some new, fancy, artificial nuerons, you would still be the same person. There would be no point where you became a totally new person. Why not speed it up even more and just throw out all the nuerons at once and replace them with artificial nuerons. It's the same thing. The same information which is the essence of you. If you continued with this, you could argue that multiple copies of your brain are all the same essence. They would all be in perfect unison of judgement, authority, and everything else, because they'd have the same mind. An analogy of how this relates to God is this. Your playing Sims 30. You could have three seperate scenarios representing possible views of the incarnation. One would be that you, outside the game, would directly control a character in the game while still having access to all the cheats. That's a single reference frame. Another way is if you were the outside presence, but a random AI controlled a character in the game and you communicated with you via some version of prayer. The one that I'm trying to describe would be like if you were on the outside, but an exact copy of your mind was given to the character. You had seperate frames of reference and roles. You would communicate with prayer. Although the ingame-you would be the same as the you-outside-the-game, the ingame-you would be "emptied" of his access to cheats. You'd still both be the same person. This is just my speculations and I may not have conveyed these thoughts well. Maybe this is a possibility.

What are you're thoughts on this? Did I miss a view? What's the correct way to view the incarnation or will we ever understand it?

I'm going to go with Jesus as the manifested essence of God on earth. He was the Logos of God who transformed and became embedded in the womb of a humble virgin girl in Israel. How this happens at the Quantum level--I'm not too concerned with. :cool:

2PhiloVoid
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
If Jesus is to God the Father as the Sun's rays are to the Sun, then the Father is the core. Jesus is the imprint of God. So why would we worship the Sun's light when we can worship the Sun itself. Because if you worship the Sun's light, you are by effect worshipping the Sun itself. So Jesus isn't God himself or a sinful man, but the imprint or image of God. He's his representation on Earth. Jesus is one with God, but this doesn't mean he isn't distinct from the other aspects of the trinity. It seems to fit well with Jesus' behavior to say he had a seperate consciousness from God. He was limited by the flesh so he prayed to the Father, which is his source. If they had the same consciousness, he would not have to pray or communicate with the Father. In that view, the Father would be directly controlling the body, which isn't biblical. This raises the mind-boggling question: "How are Jesus and God one, if they have seperate minds?" It seems to make no sense. But this is where science and philosophy come in. If I asked you, would you let me destroy your brain and then replace it with an exact copy? The sane answer would be to say, "No! That would be a new and different person!" But consider this. Naturally, the nuerons in our brain are slowly replaced over our life time. What if you sped this up? Imagine that if while you were conscious, a surgeon replaced nueron by nueron of your brain with some new, fancy, artificial nuerons, you would still be the same person. There would be no point where you became a totally new person. Why not speed it up even more and just throw out all the nuerons at once and replace them with artificial nuerons. It's the same thing. The same information which is the essence of you. If you continued with this, you could argue that multiple copies of your brain are all the same essence. They would all be in perfect unison of judgement, authority, and everything else, because they'd have the same mind. An analogy of how this relates to God is this. Your playing Sims 30. You could have three seperate scenarios representing possible views of the incarnation. One would be that you, outside the game, would directly control a character in the game while still having access to all the cheats. That's a single reference frame. Another way is if you were the outside presence, but a random AI controlled a character in the game and you communicated with you via some version of prayer. The one that I'm trying to describe would be like if you were on the outside, but an exact copy of your mind was given to the character. You had seperate frames of reference and roles. You would communicate with prayer. Although the ingame-you would be the same as the you-outside-the-game, the ingame-you would be "emptied" of his access to cheats. You'd still both be the same person. This is just my speculations and I may not have conveyed these thoughts well. Maybe this is a possibility.

What are you're thoughts on this? Did I miss a view? What's the correct way to view the incarnation or will we ever understand it?

There is no need to make it so confusing.
Jesus IS God.
The rest can be work out around this fact.

What is the problem?
 
Upvote 0