A Pondering of the Peculiar (4)

[Subduction Zone]

You think I have no evidence. I understand. I really do. But, you are going about it all wrong.

That is not the right way to ask the question.

The right way is to ask...

Can you share the evidence that you have with me?

No, I can not open a bottle and pour you some.

I would have to tell you.. Believe a man named Jesus died on a Cross for your sins. But, if you do not think you are a sinner? Pass it by. Its not for you. You do not need a savior. Only imperfect people do.

Of course I can share my evidence with you.

Why do you think that your short comings are the short comings of others? This is not the first time you have made that mistake.

It seems you have no evidence. It also seems you can't answer a question. You are failing in your Christian duties.

 

[GenemZ]

Since homosexuality prevails in all sorts of vertebrates it is highly doubtful that it will be "weeded out".

That's a distortion of what I said. Its their turn to be weeded out of the gene pool. Not that homosexuality will be weeded out. More will come when the needed circumstances are manifested.

For example.. When a wolf kills off the weakest of the flock? It does not stop more weak ones from being produced later on. The weak ones do not get to reproduce that way. That would cause a downward spin of the strength of the flock if they could.

It is more likely that it is part of the drive that cause people to work together.

Not with the homosexuals I knew. They had no special capacity to work together that was any different from others with the desire to do so.

That idea really bugs literalists. That the drive that makes some people gay is the same one that influenced the Good Samaritan.

Sorry to say.. You should talk to a policeman, or detective. The most gruesome murder scenes are often times attributed to a homosexual. And, one of the biggest deterrents for would-be delinquents from going too far off the limb is their fear of ending up in prison and becoming someones forced girlfriend. You glorify homosexuality too much. I have known a good number.

I used to know a pastor who was gay. He had a ministry to homosexuals. I let him listen to an excellent message I had on tape by a Bible scholar/pastor. He liked the quality of teaching. I then asked him why not play it for some of those in his ministry. His response? The people who listen to that teacher are healthy and happy. Its not for the gays he ministers to. He told me how many of them are very unhappy people.

I have never met a truly happy gay person. They may find moments of elation and stimulation and call feeling good 'happiness.' They may laugh and smile... even joke with you. I worked with all kinds of personalities. There is no one "gay" personality. Its those who are obvious that have caused the stereotyping.

Some of the gays I knew were believers in Jesus Christ. Others could care less. Just like anyone else.

 

[GenemZ]

Of course I can share my evidence with you.

And, then you refuse to listen to reason. You are a persistent salesman.

Why do you think that your short comings are the short comings of others?

Where did you ever get that from? Its not what I think, nor what I said.

This is not the first time you have made that mistake.

I think you're the one making a mistake with that one.

It seems you have no evidence. It also seems you can't answer a question. You are failing in your Christian duties.

If you knew me before I became a Christian, and knew me after.. Then there might have been some evidence for you to see. Just the same...God will provide you evidence .. maybe with someone you know.

God causes it to happen. Its not something a believer can will into existence. God does not make the evidence something that someone would do to simply save their a_s from eminent harm. I did not believe because I feared going to hell. I did not yet know that hell was reality. No fear there. I was attracted to nobility I saw in the nature of Jesus.

If I had a neurotic fear of hell? That would be believing for the wrong reason. For a selfish reason. It would not be the reason to believe.

So nothing will be made real to you (evidence) that could be used stimulate your survival instinct. After all.. That appears to be what you are after. Not love.

If those in Noah's day knew a flood was coming? They would have stuffed themselves into the ark. Not because they loved God. But, because they wanted to save their a_ses. So, God never makes Hell real to anyone who is not believing. Its only understood after regeneration. That is why neurotics are so sickeningly religious and superstitious. They have no real faith. Only a neurotic fear because they heard about Hell. Like kids having nightmares after seeing a scary movie.

 

[Sayre]

No true scotsman? No happy gays? You've clearly never been to mardi gras.

I lived with a woman for three years and she made me very happy indeed.

 

[biggles53]

No true scotsman? No happy gays? You've clearly never been to mardi gras.

I lived with a woman for three years and she made me very happy indeed.

Vile abomination...!! Get thee to a nunnery woman...!

No.......wait.............

 

[Subduction Zone]

And, then you refuse to listen to reason. You are a persistent salesman.

Irony meter go BOOM!!
Try honesty. You will get more converts that way.

Where did you ever get that from? Its not what I think, nor what I said.

Yes, you did. You may not realize it but it was quite clear.

I think you're the one making a mistake with that one.

Nope, no doubt about it.

If you knew me before I became a Christian, and knew me after.. Then there might have been some evidence for you to see. Just the same...God will provide you evidence .. maybe with someone you know. [/qupote]

Possibly. Christianity may have made you a better person. That is not saying much.

God causes it to happen. Its not something a believer can will into existence. God does not make the evidence something that someone would do to simply save their a_s from eminent harm. I did not believe because I feared going to hell. I did not yet know that hell was reality. No fear there. I was attracted to nobility I saw in the nature of Jesus.

So you are in effect saying it is God's fault when people are not converted. Hmm, okay. I will agree to that, it is clearly God's fault if anyone goes to hell.

If I had a neurotic fear of hell? That would be believing for the wrong reason. For a selfish reason. It would not be the reason to believe.

At least it sounds like you won't be using Pascal's Wager.

So nothing will be made real to you (evidence) that could be used stimulate your survival instinct. After all.. That appears to be what you are after. Not love.

No, evidence "makes things real". Better yet, real events leaves evidence.

If those in Noah's day knew a flood was coming? They would have stuffed themselves into the ark. Not because they loved God. But, because they wanted to save their a_ses. So, God never makes Hell real to anyone who is not believing. Its only understood after regeneration. That is why neurotics are so sickeningly religious and superstitious. They have no real faith. Only a neurotic fear because they heard about Hell. Like kids having nightmares after seeing a scary movie.

But we know there was no flood. If you believe in a worldwide flood that can easily be disproved. If you believe in a small local flood then the Ark was pointless. It is a lose/lose scenario for Christians. It is better to go with the "allegorical story" route in that matter.

 

[Sayre]

Vile abomination...!! Get thee to a nunnery woman...!

No.......wait.............

But seriously, I was happy. Really happy. Know much about the kinsey scale?

The comments that suggested the worst murders were performed by homosexuals really bothers me.

 

[biggles53]

But seriously, I was happy. Really happy. Know much about the kinsey scale?

The comments that suggested the worst murders were performed by homosexuals really bothers me.

Yep...in an earlier life I was a health educator...

Those comments you'll find are made by the same bigoted minds as those on display here...

Stats suggest that violent behaviour is not strongly correlated with sexual identity....

 

[Sayre]

Yep...in an earlier life I was a health educator...

Those comments you'll find are made by the same bigoted minds as those on display here...

Stats suggest that violent behaviour is not strongly correlated with sexual identity....

Yes, they are ignorant harmful comments. Some kinsey scales run 0-6, others 1-7, but on the 0-6 scale I'm still a 4.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Can you share the evidence that you have with me?

No, I can not open a bottle and pour you some.

Then you don't have evidence. Instead, what you have is beliefs. The whole point of evidence is being able to share it to convince other people of a certain idea.

I would have to tell you.. Believe a man named Jesus died on a Cross for your sins.

Why?

But, if you do not think you are a sinner? Pass it by. Its not for you. You do not need a savior. Only imperfect people do.

Even if I would consider myself to be an evil SOB who actually deserves harsh punishment, that would still not be a reason to believe in your "saviour" story.

Wheter my person complies to your arbitrary definition of "sinner" or not is irrelavent to the claims you make.

In fact, your concept of "sinner" is actually defined by the very religion you are trying to sell.

I'ld have to buy into your religion to accept your definition of the word which I could then use to justify belief in your religion.

Please try to provide a reason that is not infested with circular nonsense to buy into your bronze-aged superstition.

 

[DogmaHunter]

If you knew me before I became a Christian, and knew me after.. Then there might have been some evidence for you to see.

How so? I can show you people who had a headache that got "cured" after they took a placebo.

Just the same...God will provide you evidence .. maybe with someone you know.

So.... you first need to believe it and then you'll be able to believe it? What kind of nonsense is this?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

No, what you have was always a sickness. It is a from of self-hate:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/homophobic-maybe-youre-gay.html?_r=0

Interesting article. Poor old Ted Haggard, I almost feel sorry for him. I mean, he may be a buffoon, but he must have gone through hell when the scandal broke, poor chap. Shakespeare's famous phrase "the lady doth protest too much methinks" springs to mind when thinking about him. Talking of Shakespeare, I've heard it claimed that he was bisexual from the evidence of some of his famous sonnets being addressed to men. In fact, the list of famous homosexuals throughout history is quite extensive. And that raises the interesting point that people here have mentioned knowing homosexuals but not many have mentioned having gay heroes or admiring famous people who are gay or bisexual. Alan Turing's been mentioned (and hard must be the heart that can hear his story without being moved), but I would imagine that most people admire at least one famous person who is gay. My own list would start with the fairly obvious ones of Oscar Wilde and Stephen Fry, but I'm curious who fundamentalists would admit to admiring.

 

[AV1611VET]

Interesting article. Poor old Ted Haggard, I almost feel sorry for him. I mean, he may be a buffoon, but he must have gone through hell when the scandal broke, poor chap. Shakespeare's famous phrase "the lady doth protest too much methinks" springs to mind when thinking about him. Talking of Shakespeare, I've heard it claimed that he was bisexual from the evidence of some of his famous sonnets being addressed to men. In fact, the list of famous homosexuals throughout history is quite extensive. And that raises the interesting point that people here have mentioned knowing homosexuals but not many have mentioned having gay heroes or admiring famous people who are gay or bisexual. Alan Turing's been mentioned (and hard must be the heart that can hear his story without being moved), but I would imagine that most people admire at least one famous person who is gay. My own list would start with the fairly obvious ones of Oscar Wilde and Stephen Fry, but I'm curious who fundamentalists would admit to admiring.

This post is queer.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

This post is queer.

?

 

[AV1611VET]

?

There's just something about it that doesn't look right.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

There's just something about it that doesn't look right.

Maybe it's just getting an 'abort, retry, fail' response from your brain. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[PsychoSarah]

That's a distortion of what I said. Its their turn to be weeded out of the gene pool. Not that homosexuality will be weeded out. More will come when the needed circumstances are manifested.

For example.. When a wolf kills off the weakest of the flock? It does not stop more weak ones from being produced later on. The weak ones do not get to reproduce that way. That would cause a downward spin of the strength of the flock if they could.


Not with the homosexuals I knew. They had no special capacity to work together that was any different from others with the desire to do so.

Sorry to say.. You should talk to a policeman, or detective. The most gruesome murder scenes are often times attributed to a homosexual. And, one of the biggest deterrents for would-be delinquents from going too far off the limb is their fear of ending up in prison and becoming someones forced girlfriend. You glorify homosexuality too much. I have known a good number.

I used to know a pastor who was gay. He had a ministry to homosexuals. I let him listen to an excellent message I had on tape by a Bible scholar/pastor. He liked the quality of teaching. I then asked him why not play it for some of those in his ministry. His response? The people who listen to that teacher are healthy and happy. Its not for the gays he ministers to. He told me how many of them are very unhappy people.

I have never met a truly happy gay person. They may find moments of elation and stimulation and call feeling good 'happiness.' They may laugh and smile... even joke with you. I worked with all kinds of personalities. There is no one "gay" personality. Its those who are obvious that have caused the stereotyping.

Some of the gays I knew were believers in Jesus Christ. Others could care less. Just like anyone else.

What. The. Expletive. Gay people are not responsible for the most gruesome murders. They often are the ones who are murdered gruesomely though.

In the United States, Caucasian strait men between the ages of 18 and 35 account for most violent crimes. I know a few happy homosexuals (you probably don't because those which you would come into contact with and know are likely those that would be dissatisfied with the situation from living around people who discriminate against it) just like I know plenty of pessimistic heterosexuals. You are correct that there is no "gay personality" just like there isn't a "heterosexual personality". That should just show you that they are people who have feelings just like anyone else.

 

[GenemZ]

Try honesty. You will get more converts that way.

I do not get the converts. Even Jesus did not get converts.

“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.
“No one can come to me unless the Father
who sent me draws them.


​

Its all personally between you and God. It personal. Your insensitivity to God, and sensitivity to yourself... will be your downfall if you do not humble yourself. Which you are not doing. YOU convert yourself.

 

[GenemZ]

What. The. Expletive. Gay people are not responsible for the most gruesome murders. They often are the ones who are murdered gruesomely though.

They are murdered. Yes... And when it was by someone who was associated with their homosexuality? It gets worse. Talk to a detective if you can. You might get some insight. All murder is gruesome. Its the extra steps taken to murder when involving two homosexuals. Those are the ones that get noted as being exceptionally gruesome.

I did not get my information from the following web page. I found this page in order to cite you an example of what I have been aware of.


Homosexuality and Murders - Conservapedia

Vernon J. Geberth, M.S., M.P.S. who is a former commander of Bronx homicide for the New York City Police Department stated in 1995 regarding homosexual murders that homosexual murders are relatively common and these murders may involve male victims murdered by other males or may involve female victims who are in some type of lesbian relationship and they are murdered by another female.[2] In 2005, Dr. Harnam Singh, Dr. Luv Sharma, and Dr. Dhattarwal reported in the Journal of Indian Academy of Forensic Medicine that homosexual murders are quite common and that these murders may involve both sexes either as victims or as assailants.[3]
The statements above are not surprising given the studies regarding homosexual couples and domestic violence.
​

Homosexual Murders and Brutality

According to the New York Times, Dr. William Eckert was a world-renowned authority in the field of pathology and he worked on major murder cases including the assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy and the Charles Manson murders.[4] Dr. Eckert founded the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology.[4] [5] According to Time magazine, Dr. Eckert was a pioneer who encouraged collaborative effort between law-enforcement and forensics teams.[5]
Dr. Eckert wrote regarding homosexual murders the following:
​

“ Equally high is the number of homicides, many probably related to transient attachments, which often lead to suspicion, jealousy, and murder. When murder does occur it is exceptionally brutal with an overkill appearance... Overkill, as it is seen in homosexual and lesbian murders, is certainly a form of sadistic crime. In these instances multiple stabbing and other brutal injuries...are common findings...[6] ”


​

Bernard Knight CBE, MD, BCh, MRCP, FRCPath, FHKCPath, DMJ (Path) was a Professor of Forensic Pathology in the University of Wales until he retired in 1996.[7] In 1993 he was made a Commander of the British Empire (CBE) for his services to forensic medicine.[7][8] Dr. Bernard Knight has been involved in many notorious murder cases, including Fred West and Rosemary West, Roberto Calvi (the Vatican banker), the child killer Mary Bell, and the Steven Truscott case]] in Canada.[7] Dr. Pekka Saukko is Professor and Head of the Department of Forensic Medicine at the University of Turku in Finland.[8] Dr. Saukko is also the editor of Forensic Science International.[9] Doctors Knight and Saukko coauthored a pathology textbook entitled Knight's Forensic Pathology in 2004 which stated the following:
​

“ As with heterosexual offenses, the cause of death in fatal cases is almost always some form of general trauma, such as strangulation or head injuries. Homosexual activity, however, may be a parallel event; it is a fact that some of the most violent homicides seen by pathologists are among male homosexuals.[10] ”

The previously cited article in the Journal of Indian Academy of Forensic Medicine states regarding homosexual murders: "These "Lovers' quarrels" between male homosexuals manifest an increased level of violence due to the fact that the parties involved in the emotional conflict are both sexual aggressors."[3]
​

The Encyclopedia of Serial Killers by Michael Newton reports:

“ Homosexual slayers clearly have no monopoly on violence, but it is true that their crimes often display extremes of "overkill" and mutilation... On balance, it seems fair to say that while homosexuals sometimes fall prey to "gay bashing" violence by bigoted "straights," they are far more likely to be murdered by another homosexual than in a random hate crime.[11]​

 

[PsychoSarah]

That site is biased. It is called Conservapedia -_- how about looking up government sites on violence statistics, they aren't hard to find.