A Pondering of the Peculiar (3)

[Atheos canadensis]

For argument sake.

If anyone did know enough? Would he believe it?

Do you mean to ask if someone were sufficiently conversant in evolutionary theory to legitimately criticize it, would he believe they were sufficiently conversant? I should think so, but you'll have to ask him. But you're being evasive. You complained that you were being unjustly criticized for not understanding evolution, then it was shown that you really don't. How do you respond to that? Or do you wish to defend your question of how evolution could proceed when a female has to wait millions of years for a mate of the same type to evolve? In any case, I'd appreciate a direct response instead of the evasion you just gave me.

 

[GenemZ]

So god saves rapists, pedophiles, and murderers so long as they are willing to believe, and will damn firefighters, charity workers, and generally decent human beings to hell for not believing? If that were the case, I don't think heaven would end up much better than hell.

If a company was seeking to hire a rocket scientist? And, if a person of low intelligence did many good deeds? Should he therefore get the job?

God requires you be perfect before anyone can enter perfect Heaven. Only through the Cross of Christ are men made by God to become perfect, by God's power. Not man's own ability. Man does not have such ability in his own power. The fall destroyed man's perfection.

What we see in other humans is only relative to ourselves. We never see perfect men. For all men are fallen. So, if the the only type of people you have around you are all fallen and defective? If anyone does more good deeds than another? Will that make him to be without defect? No. He will be a defective person doing good deeds. God requires perfect like those hiring need someone with high intelligence to be a rocket scientist.

No one can be accepted by God? Not as they are. So.. God crucified in Christ all our defective fallen self. All men. He will replace it with His life. The Life he finds acceptable. No one for that reason is saved by the good deeds they do.

 

[PsychoSarah]

If a company was seeking to hire a rocket scientist? And, if a person of low intelligence did many good deeds? Should he therefore get the job?

God requires you be perfect before anyone can enter perfect Heaven. Only through the Cross of Christ are men made by God to become perfect, by God's power. Not man's own ability. Man does not have such ability in his own power. The fall destroyed man's perfection.

What we see in other humans is only relative to ourselves. We never see perfect men. For all men are fallen. So, if the the only type of people you have around you are all fallen and defective? If anyone does more good deeds than another? Will that make him to be without defect? No. He will be a defective person doing good deeds. God requires perfect like those hiring need someone with high intelligence to be a rocket scientist.

No one can be accepted by God? Not as they are. So.. God crucified in Christ all our defective fallen self. All men. He will replace it with His life. The Life he finds acceptable. No one for that reason is saved by the good deeds they do.

So the statement I made, in your opinion, would be correct?

 

[GenemZ]

Do you mean to ask if someone were sufficiently conversant in evolutionary theory to legitimately criticize it, would he believe they were sufficiently conversant? I should think so, but you'll have to ask him. But you're being evasive. You complained that you were being unjustly criticized for not understanding evolution, then it was shown that you really don't. How do you respond to that? Or do you wish to defend your question of how evolution could proceed when a female has to wait millions of years for a mate of the same type to evolve? In any case, I'd appreciate a direct response instead of the evasion you just gave me.

Why study in depth after you understand the premise its based on? When you already see as having no possible beginning to stand on?

Before you try to tell me about bio-genesis? Where did the earth come from? Where did matter that the earth consists of come from? Bang, and there it was? That is a fairy tale. A fairy tale spoken with words cloaked in technically sounding words. Its still a fairy tale.

I see scientists as fallen men who have a God-given gift. A gift that they are free to use for truth, or to fantasize with for their own self glory if they so choose. If I know that there is no solid foundation, why insist that I buy your house? Why should I see how good the kitchen is, and how hi tech the den is? Would that change my mind?

Evolution has become a marketing tool for people who want to distance themselves from people of faith, and ultimately take away their freedom to worship... when they have gained enough power that they feel they surely deserve. Deserve because science is to become the new religion.

 

[GenemZ]

So the statement I made, in your opinion, would be correct?

I was telling you why its correct. Yes or no answers to such a question is filled with mines and traps in a field.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I was telling you why its correct. Yes or no answers to such a question is filled with mines in a field.

Suddenly I don't feel much motivation to try to get into heaven. In fact, I feel almost the opposite.

 

[GenemZ]

Suddenly I don't feel much motivation to try to get into heaven. In fact, I feel almost the opposite.

If that's the case? Who am I to argue with someone who thinks that way?

Make sure to make an early reservation. Its going to be crowded.

 

[EternalDragon]

Suddenly I don't feel much motivation to try to get into heaven. In fact, I feel almost the opposite.

The alternative isn't going to very nice or pleasant.

 

[PsychoSarah]

The alternative isn't going to very nice or pleasant.

It doesn't seem like I would be going to a nice place either way, if rapists and murderers could get into heaven.

 

[GenemZ]

It doesn't seem like I would be going to a nice place either way, if rapists and murderers could get into heaven.

You think they will remain being rapists and murderers in heaven? Why?

When man fell he took on the nature of the fallen angels. These fallen ones will be in the Lake of Fire. It was created for them in mind.

You would rather be there with the very source and cause for there being rapists and murderers?

 

[PsychoSarah]

You think they will be rapists and murderers in heaven? Why?

If god changes people so much in heaven that rapists and murderers would no longer have the desire to do harm, it would be stripping people of what makes them who they are, because that would be the removal of the violent personality that defines them. And if rapists and murderers were purged of their personality, so would everyone else, and you would no longer be you, nor would you be unique. It would be a gilded world hiding the most extreme sort of conformity and pointless existence imaginable. A heaven that removes that much of a person is a spiritual hell.

 

[GenemZ]

It doesn't seem like I would be going to a nice place either way, if rapists and murderers could get into heaven.

One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying,
“Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!” But the other answered, and rebuking
him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of
condemnation? And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we
deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” And he was saying,
“Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” And He said to him,
“Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

​

Jesus was dying for his sins. And you resent that?

 

[bhsmte]

Why study in depth after you understand the premise its based on? When you already see as having no possible beginning to stand on?

Before you try to tell me about bio-genesis? Where did the earth come from? Where did matter that the earth consists of come from? Bang, and there it was? That is a fairy tale. A fairy tale spoken with words cloaked in technically sounding words. Its still a fairy tale.

I see scientists as fallen men who have a God-given gift. A gift that they are free to use for truth, or to fantasize with for their own self glory if they so choose. If I know that there is no solid foundation, why insist that I buy your house? Why should I see how good the kitchen is, and how hi tech the den is? Would that change my mind?

Evolution has become a marketing tool for people who want to distance themselves from people of faith, and ultimately take away their freedom to worship... when they have gained enough power that they feel they surely deserve. Deserve because science is to become the new religion.

Looking at your last paragraph, the majority of believers accept the theory of evolution and still have faith in their belief in God. Is that ok with you, or do you feel there is something wrong with that?

 

[PsychoSarah]

One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying,
“Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!” But the other answered, and rebuking
him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of
condemnation? And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we
deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” And he was saying,
“Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” And He said to him,
“Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

​

Jesus was dying for his sins. And you resent that?

I prefer the Catholic view that one must both believe and be a decent human being on earth to get into heaven than just being a believer alone. If there is a heaven, my preference would be that our actions rather than our personal beliefs were more paramount, but if belief has to matter, then our actions should matter as well. I view those who committed evil acts in life going to a paradise in death on the basis of belief alone as unjust.

 

[GenemZ]

If god changes people so much in heaven that rapists and murderers would no longer have the desire to do harm, it would be stripping people of what makes them who they are, because that would be the removal of the violent personality that defines them. And if rapists and murderers were purged of their personality, so would everyone else, and you would no longer be you, nor would you be unique. It would be a gilded world hiding the most extreme sort of conformity and pointless existence imaginable. A heaven that removes that much of a person is a spiritual hell.

Its not a hardwired personality. Some very sweet people have murdered. Some very sweet people are pathological liars. There will be no Satan nor fallen angels in Heaven. No one will want to murder.

Rape can only happen now. Not after their will be no more need for reproduction. When no one dies? Why procreate?

Criminality is a personality modifier that becomes a disorder. Not a personality in itself. For everyone who has a certain temperament suitable for crime, there is another person with the same temperament who makes choices with an opposite outcome.

After you receive your resurrection body the personality you have now would be painful and boring to maintain. Everyone will have fantastic personalities because a large part of your personality is determined how your soul interacts with the body you have been given.

 

[Atheos canadensis]

Why study in depth after you understand the premise its based on? When you already see as having no possible beginning to stand on?

That's the point though. By asking the question you did, you demonstrated that you are not familiar with the fundamentals of evolutionary theory. This indicates that the problems you perceive with evolution are really problems with your understanding. You thought there would be a problem for a female to find a male to breed with, demonstrating that you were unaware that evolution is something that happens to populations. The definition of evolution is change in allele frequencies in a population over time. You were unaware of a fundamental part of the definition of evolution but you want your opinion on the matter to be taken seriously?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Its not a hardwired personality. Some very sweet people have murdered. Some very sweet people are pathological liars. There will be no Satan nor fallen angels in Heaven. No one will want to murder.

Rape can only happen now. Not after their will be no more need for reproduction. When no one dies? Why procreate?

Criminality is a personality modifier that becomes a disorder. Not a personality in itself. For everyone who has a certain temperament suitable for crime, there is another person with the same temperament who makes choices with an opposite outcome.

Rape isn't an act for reproduction, but a lust for controlling other people. It is exceedingly rare for people to rape for the purpose of reproduction, and many rapists will use condoms to prevent reproduction and leaving behind DNA.

Sociopaths, which many muderers are, lack the feelings of caring about people and they view them as completely expendable. They are prone to anger. Their disorder may modify their personality, but no more so than impatience, or honesty, or daring would.

 

[USincognito]

You folks lack are marketing a bill of goods you that you have been sold on.{snip}

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[GenemZ]

Rape isn't an act for reproduction, but a lust for controlling other people.

I know that. I was trying to say sex will be a non-issue. Little kids have very exciting moments and exhilarating thoughts without having any sex drive. In heaven we won't have a sex drive, nor the desire to control others... for no one will experience any feelings of inferiority. Yet, to be alive will be infinitely greater in happiness than any joy an innocent happy child can know here on earth.

It is exceedingly rare for people to rape for the purpose of reproduction, and many rapists will use condoms to prevent reproduction and leaving behind DNA.

Understood. I was alluding to the fact sex will not be an issue... nothing to do with what you are discussing. Matter of fact, those who maintain the attitude that causes rape.. a lust for controlling other people... will be exclusively guests of Hotel Lake of Fire.

[Sociopaths, which many muderers are, lack the feelings of caring about people and they view them as completely expendable. They are prone to anger. Their disorder may modify their personality, but no more so than impatience, or honesty, or daring would.

Regeneration alone has transformed criminals. Once the sin nature is able to be controlled, it then becomes a matter of choice rather than an undeniable impulse to be a criminal. They can still choose to be a criminal. Before they had no choice. Regeneration has real effects for transformation. Religion is simply white washing.

 

[GenemZ]

Thanks for proving {snip}

You're very welcome.