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A Pondering of the Peculiar (3)

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Davian

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"In matters of religion it is very easy to deceive a man, and very hard to undeceive him." -Pierre Bayle

I agree with this statement,
I would concur.

you (and many others) have been deceived into believing a fake religion "evolutional science, aka; humanism"
"Fake religion"? Seriously?

and now you are stuck.
Not at all. My beliefs are always subject to new information. If they are shown to be unsupported, or demonstrably incorrect, they change.

True scientist would not distance themselves from all available information unless they are agenda driven.
Did you find this "true scientist" phrase in the same place you got "real time"?

Do you hate Jesus
Why would I do that?

so much that you are willing to ignore any evidences that are in the Bible or that may lean towards Creation?
The bible is not evidence.

You probable do not know this one, but I will ask again; how much energy was dispersed in your Big Bang theory?
It is my understanding that, based on astronomical observations, the sum of the energy in the universe is zero. What is yours?

How fast do you think the explosion was? Was it faster than a twinkling in the eye?
I did not realize that the twinkling of an eye was a unit of measurement. Please elucidate, particularly on how fast this 'explosion' was.
 
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GenemZ

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Yes - you equated evolution and atheism through the context of your words.

No, you have. You are apparently sensitive to such matters. Let's leave it at that. For I know what I was saying.

Why should I lie to you? Are you calling me a liar?
 
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PsychoSarah

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No, you have. You are apparently sensitive to such matters. Let's leave it at that. For I know what I was saying.

Why should I lie to you? Are you calling me a liar?

No, why do you interpret everything as an attack on your character?
 
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HitchSlap

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No, you have. You are apparently sensitive to such matters. Let's leave it at that. For I know what I was saying.

Why should I lie to you? Are you calling me a liar?

Then there seems to be a problem between what you think you're saying compared to what you actually say.

2 cents ^
 
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PsychoSarah

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Thank you for not calling me stupid (like some of the others on this forum) and being honest, I really appreciate it. :cool:

It sounds like you are more agnostic than atheist, which in my point of view is not a bad place to be.

Now why does everyone think I am agnostic? If I was agnostic, I would say I was, I know my own world view, and that is that while the lack of a god or gods isn't proven, I still think that it is the most likely reality. And how is being atheist worse than being agnostic? Anyone who thinks that belief matters in the afterlife would expect agnostics and atheists to have the same fate because both aren't believers. Anyone who thinks belief doesn't matter shouldn't view agnosticism as better than atheism either. I swear, people think I am agnostic only because I try to be nice most of the time and respectful of religion, which apparently doesn't fit the atheist stereotype.

This must be sort of what it feels like when Christians are accused of not being of their faith when they know what they believe.
 
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Davian

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I didn't say "as described in the Bible" did I. I asked a simple question about it being possible.

Is it even remotely possible that the universe is a lot younger than what is being propagated in the world today? Just possible, that is the question.

Define "possible". By my understanding of the standard model of physics, no. On the other hand, a trickster deity may have created the world last Thursday, with everything in motion, and everyone implanted with the memories as needed to give the illusion of age.

Last Thursdayism - RationalWiki

Answer me this: How many times do you think our galaxy, the Milky Way galaxy, has rotated since its formation?
 
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BrotherRickG

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Is this a true statement?

It is possible that our universe is infinite and has been filled with matter everywhere since the Big Bang. But there is also nothing stopping the universe expanding faster than the speed of light. Although at any local point within the universe, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, this is not true for the entire universe. There is no limit on how fast space can expand.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Is this a true statement?

It is possible that our universe is infinite and has been filled with matter everywhere since the Big Bang. But there is also nothing stopping the universe expanding faster than the speed of light. Although at any local point within the universe, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, this is not true for the entire universe. There is no limit on how fast space can expand.

There aren't many "absolute" statements that can be made in physics, however, the common consensus is that space itself (not necessarily the matter within it) can move faster than light with sufficient force.
 
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HitchSlap

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Is this a true statement?

It is possible that our universe is infinite and has been filled with matter everywhere since the Big Bang. But there is also nothing stopping the universe expanding faster than the speed of light. Although at any local point within the universe, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, this is not true for the entire universe. There is no limit on how fast space can expand.

I'm not a physicist, so I have no idea.
 
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Davian

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Thank you for not calling me stupid (like some of the others on this forum) and being honest, I really appreciate it. :cool:
Do you get that a lot? Being called stupid, I mean.
It sounds like you are more agnostic than atheist, which in my point of view is not a bad place to be.
The terms are not mutually exclusive.

The term atheist is Anti-Theist which in most circles is someone who is against anything Jesus.
That does sound arrogant. Jesus is not the only (theistic) game in town.

I am more anti-bad-science-in-the-guise-of-religion.

I was actually curious on the educated guesstimate of the initial speed of the expansion.

Is this a true statement in your opinion:

It is possible that our universe is infinite and has been filled with matter everywhere since the Big Bang. But there is also nothing stopping the universe expanding faster than the speed of light. Although at any local point within the universe, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, this is not true for the entire universe. There is no limit on how fast space can expand.
If you have a point to make, start a thread in the Physical & Life Sciences forum. See you there.
 
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GenemZ

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I didn't say "as described in the Bible" did I. I asked a simple question about it being possible.

Is it even remotely possible that the universe is a lot younger than what is being propagated in the world today? Just possible, that is the question.

What is infallible? The Word of God? Or, men who tell you what seems right to your way of thinking? Evolutionists rely upon what feels good to their point of view and use data as their shield to present themselves as being intellectually superior to those who oppose their position. The Christian who accepts inaccurate teaching that appeals to his way of thinking, will put up for his shield a human form of dogmatism that he mistakenly accepts as being faith. Faith that the evolutionists is devoid of in regards to being able to see God's Word as legit data. Both, when this is done. Are dung at each other, seeing who can pile it higher than the other. Seeing who can find more fault with the others reasoning, but never being able to discover what is correct.

Since you apparently ignored the link I provided I will take the liberty to show you something you failed to explore and consider.

The concept that was derived from the Hebrew text (which was easily understood by Jewish scholars) was that a pre-adamic creation had graced the surface of this earth prior to the creation of Adam. They saw it. It was not even debated. Why was it not debated? Why debate what can easily be seen? It did not become a point of debate until it became a sword in the battle between Darwinism and Christianity.

But, a majority of Christians who were poor students of the Bible, clung to the traditional tale that was devised by men. Just like we are taught that the Three Wise Men were by Jesus side at the manger. Its not truth! But, we see it on TV every Christmas and on Christmas cards.

Lies became perpetuated by the traditions of men. And men of unquestioning human loyalty to that tradition refuse to reason with facts that tell them they better reconsider what they believe. God in His wisdom tossed Darwin into the ring as to get the Church off its lazy pew warmer and start to find out what the Scriptures have actually taught all along.

But, what do we still see? Only some of the believers have the integrity needed to question the traditional position and to seek answers that line up with Truth. That is why I said many Christians are being stupid. They do have to be. But, they choose to be. They choose not to be corrected because they are proud of their position like fans that root for the home team simply because its the place where they were born into.

Here is what was understood by Jewish scholars who did understand the nuances of the Hebrew. It was widely accepted without question for that reason!


Jewish commentators made the discovery, but their

early literature (the Midrash for example) reveals that
they had some intimation of an early pre-Adamic
catastrophe affecting the whole earth. Similarly, clear
evidence appears in the oldest extant Version of the
Hebrew Scriptures (the Targum of 0nkelos)and some
intimation may be seen in the "punctuation marks" of
the Massoretic text of Genesis chapter One.

Early Jewish writers subsequently built up some abstruse
arguments about God's dealings with Israel on the basis

of this belief and it would seem that Paul in his Epistle to
the Corinthians is at one point making indirect reference
to this traditional background.

A few of the early Church Fathers accepted this interpretation
and based some of their doctrines upon it. It is true that

both they and their Jewish antecedents used arguments
which to us seem at times to have no force whatever, but
this is not the issue. The truth is, as we shall see, that the
idea of a once ordered world having been brought to
ruin as
a consequence of divine judgment just prior
to the creation
of Adam, was apparently quite widespread.
It was not debated: it was merely held by some and not by others.
Those who held it referred to it and built up arguments upon it
without apparently feeling the need to apologize for believing as
they did, nor for explaining the grounds for their faith.

What is referred to the GAP theory was not something new that was simply invented to counter Darwinism! That is a lie that many Christians are told by blunt headed teachers! It was at the time of Darwinism something that was rediscovered by those who had the scholarly capacity. It was located and realized that God in His Word had already been supplying the answer for why we find the fossils. God had supplied the answer long before secular science came in with its offensive!

Its because of non-thinking Christians who refused to learn something that they never were taught by their incompetent teachers to consider that we see evolution being taught today as matter of fact. Christianity in its mainstream form has only itself to blame for this loss. My people perish because of a lack of knowledge!
 
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PsychoSarah

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BrotherRickG, there are some terms you are using incorrectly.

Humanism- actually it just emphasizes the importance of people and how they live over religion, but a person can be a humanist and religious. Atheists also aren't necessarily humanist, and humanists are necessarily evolutionists, etc.

Antitheist- not the same as atheist, but rather are literally against god worship and religion and general, compared to atheists, who simply lack any beliefs in the existence of gods. An atheist might not have an issue with public religious practices, but an antitheist definitely would.

It is best not to confuse these things, so as to avoid insulting others by mistake.
 
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HitchSlap

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Neither am I, but I have always been fascinated with the Big Bang and thus read up on it a lot.

Me too. A few of the books I've read in the last ten years or so:

About Time - Davies
Origins - DeGrasse Tyson
Cosmos - Kaku
A Brief History of Time - Hawking
A Short History of Nearly Everything - Bryson
 
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HitchSlap

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What is infallible? The Word of God?

Yes.

4,000 or 40,000?

1 Kings 4:26 and 2 Chronicles 9:25

(1 Kings 4:26) - "And Solomon had 40,000 stalls of horses for his chariots, and 12,000 horsemen."

(2 Chron. 9:25) - "Now Solomon had 4,000 stalls for horses and chariots and 12,000 horsemen, and he stationed them in the chariot cities and with the king in Jerusalem."
 
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PsychoSarah

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Me too. A few of the books I've read in the last ten years or so:

About Time - Davies
Origins - DeGrasse Tyson
Cosmos - Kaku
A Brief History of Time - Hawking
A Short History of Nearly Everything - Bryson

Good thing my language IQ is 150, keeps me from having to look up words all the time while reading that kind of material. Addressed to authors: "I know I know you are all geniuses, but would it kill you to speak in the vernacular, because the majority of people aren't geniuses". Seriously, just dumb it down a little. I know that when I have trouble with the language being used, almost everyone is having trouble, it's a bad sign.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Yes.

4,000 or 40,000?

1 Kings 4:26 and 2 Chronicles 9:25

(1 Kings 4:26) - "And Solomon had 40,000 stalls of horses for his chariots, and 12,000 horsemen."

(2 Chron. 9:25) - "Now Solomon had 4,000 stalls for horses and chariots and 12,000 horsemen, and he stationed them in the chariot cities and with the king in Jerusalem."

Easy mistake, someone dropped or added a zero by accident when copying it down, and no one noticed it in time to correct it.
 
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