A Pondering of the Peculiar (2)

[anyathesword]

And who created satan knowing that satan would create sin, hmm?

And who created sin? Not God!

If your child creates a dvd player, was it you that created it?

 

[Sayre]

Honestly, I almost never look at links people post. I just don't have the time nor the patience to read most of them, and the slight interest I have as an intellectual about generally everything isn't even close to strong enough to inspire me to overcome my ADHD and read it.

Even so, I understand that evil does play a necessary role in our lives on multiple levels, I just want people to acknowledge that at some point along the line god created at least 1 thing that was evil if not more than one directly.

Let me know when you've read it, and perhaps you might appreciate the Ireneaus position on evil a little more. It is perhaps more defensible than you realise

 

[anyathesword]

Honestly, I almost never look at links people post. I just don't have the time nor the patience to read most of them, and the slight interest I have as an intellectual about generally everything isn't even close to strong enough to inspire me to overcome my ADHD and read it.

Even so, I understand that evil does play a necessary role in our lives on multiple levels, I just want people to acknowledge that at some point along the line god created at least 1 thing that was evil if not more than one directly.

No, God created this:

Ezekiel 28:12-19

“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13
You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.Your settings and mountings[c] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

14
You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15
You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16
Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17
Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.

18
By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.

19
All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’”


Isaiah 14:12-15 ESV
“How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.

That is Satan, who he really was at the beginning. He was a bright and shining star, that's why some texts translate him as Lucifer, 'The bright and shining one".

God created a perfect angel, a beautiful and powerful and intelligent being!! That's why pride overtook him!!


Think about it. We have actors and actresses, celebrities, stars, whatever all with the most money, the most beautiful houses and cars and women and I don't know what!! How is there attitude because of what they have? How do people deal with power and alot of money? Pride takes over!! They think they are better than anyone else, they think they are the most beautiful, the most wealthy, the most powerful! But don't forget what happens to most of them at the end...drugs, suicide, alcohol, unhappiness, etc.

 

[PsychoSarah]

The more one says god is perfect and infailable, the more I wonder why satan was evil then. The more perfect god is, the less likely evil is an accident.

 

[Sayre]

The more one says god is perfect and infailable, the more I wonder why satan was evil then. The more perfect god is, the less likely evil is an accident.

It isn't an accident. It is a necessary consequence of granting genuine free will.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It isn't an accident. It is a necessary consequence of granting genuine free will.

Which I am well aware of. I have no issue with the idea that evil has a purpose to it, I just want people to acknowledge it as such rather than saying all evil is the fault of humanity or some figure such as satan when there is a creator who could have prevented such evil if it so chose to.

However, I myself am not religious, so I do have to face evils as the result of humanity essentially being a race of violent apes that can be particularly creative about how they hurt each other. To me, evil, while having some positives, causes so much more harm that I would gladly sacrifice my free will if it would just lessen the overall evil a bit, let alone get rid of it completely.

 

[GenemZ]

YO!!!! It's Satan's fault to create sin!!!

Don't go there! LOL!

..Keep those pearls in its sack!
Display them in the open.. and they'll begin to hack!

​

You got to know not only who you are talking to. But, what you are talking to. "Don't you know that there is no such thing as Satan?" You are just begging for them to be leading you off into their brier patch.

Relax.. Save your energy for doing good. Don't go punching the air. Do not let them wear you out by discouraging you. For, its the only thing they can do. Discourage. There is no hope unless God opens their eyes about what is plainly seen by those whom God has chosen to make known.

Matthew 11:27

“All things have been committed to me by my Father.
No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one
knows the Father except the Son and those to whom
the Son chooses to reveal him.


​

Now... don't say to yourself, after reading that..."That's nice." And, then go about as if you are still dealing within the usual mundane, natural way of thinking.

John 6:44

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me
draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."





​

Grace and peace...

 

[GenemZ]

Which I am well aware of. I have no issue with the idea that evil has a purpose to it, I just want people to acknowledge it as such rather than saying all evil is the fault of humanity or some figure such as satan when there is a creator who could have prevented such evil if it so chose to.

You can not have free will being exercised without evil being one of the results of freedom in making choices.

The very fact that evil exists, and evil being diametrically opposed to God's will, serves only to prove that God succeeded in creating free will in the creatures he chose to potentially share in his eternity.

 

[anyathesword]

The more one says god is perfect and infailable, the more I wonder why satan was evil then. The more perfect god is, the less likely evil is an accident.

Oh my are you following me? The scripture I posted is talking about Satan. He has free will. He created evil, not God.

 

[anyathesword]

Which I am well aware of. I have no issue with the idea that evil has a purpose to it, I just want people to acknowledge it as such rather than saying all evil is the fault of humanity or some figure such as satan when there is a creator who could have prevented such evil if it so chose to.

However, I myself am not religious, so I do have to face evils as the result of humanity essentially being a race of violent apes that can be particularly creative about how they hurt each other. To me, evil, while having some positives, causes so much more harm that I would gladly sacrifice my free will if it would just lessen the overall evil a bit, let alone get rid of it completely.

Sarah, it is the fault of Satan and mankind.

 

[anyathesword]

Don't go there! LOL!

..Keep those pearls in its sack!
Display them in the open.. and they'll begin to hack!

​

You got to know not only who you are talking to. But, what you are talking to. "Don't you know that there is no such thing as Satan?" You are just begging for them to be leading you off into their brier patch.

Relax.. Save your energy for doing good. Don't go punching the air. Do not let them wear you out by discouraging you. For, its the only thing they can do. Discourage. There is no hope unless God opens their eyes about what is plainly seen by those whom God has chosen to make known.

Matthew 11:27

“All things have been committed to me by my Father.
No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one
knows the Father except the Son and those to whom
the Son chooses to reveal him.


​

Now... don't say to yourself, after reading that..."That's nice." And, then go about as if you are still dealing within the usual mundane, natural way of thinking.

John 6:44

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me
draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."





​

Grace and peace...

Are you serious??? I don't understand, are you telling me there is no such thing as Satan?

 

[Davian]

Ahhh, it must be in God's imagination, you mean, to be more correct!

No, your imagination.

 

[GenemZ]

Are you serious??? I don't understand, are you telling me there is no such thing as Satan?

No.. I was giving you their argument. Look at it again with that in mind...

 

[GenemZ]

No, your imagination.

What did "souls" do to Christ when they thought he was just like one of them? Tortured and murdered.

God must contain those who would want to contain God.

Little box you got there. Sure God will fit? Small minds = small God.

You have no idea... None.

 

[Herman Hedning]

YO!!!! It's Satan's fault to create sin!!!

Anya, you believe in an omnipotent and omniscient God, right? A god that knew even before he created Satan that he would fall and make everything evil in the world? And still you don't think God is at least a tiny bit responsible, given all that foreknowledge and stuff?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

What did "souls" do to Christ when they thought he was just like one of them? Tortured and murdered.

Wasn't that god's plan all along? Hardly seems fair to blame anyone else for his plan, especially as central to his plan was coercing human beings into murdering him.

God must contain those who would want to contain God.

I don't think anyone wants to delineate your imaginary friend.

Little box you got there. Sure God will fit? Small minds = small God.

Those who have an imaginary friend usually create him in their own image, so you usually get one about the size you can cope with and who seems, in an amazing coincidence, ever so reasonable to you.

You have no idea... None.

What it is like to be you with your imaginary friend? I think it's fair we can have a stab at it, but of course it is impossible to know exactly what it is like for you.

 

[anyathesword]

Anya, you believe in an omnipotent and omniscient God, right? A god that knew even before he created Satan that he would fall and make everything evil in the world? And still you don't think God is at least a tiny bit responsible, given all that foreknowledge and stuff?

Are you responsable if your child decides to shoot the person outside?

 

[anyathesword]

No, your imagination.

The Bible is not my imagination!!

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Are you responsable if your child decides to shoot the person outside?

If you knew without a shadow of a doubt, because you are omniscient, that they were going to do that before you even had the child, let alone left them alone with a gun, then would't you say just a little bit of responsibility is yours?

 

[Herman Hedning]

Are you responsable if your child decides to shoot the person outside?

If I give my five year old a loaded gun to play with, then, yes I am responsible if he shoots some one or himself with it.