A personal dissent against Christianity

[Ender Wiggin 26]

Well, I am new here, and I had no idea where to post this. I didn't want to get in trouble by posting this in the general apologetics section, so I am posting it here. This is a letter of 'personal testimony' if sorts that I sent to all of my friends and family and former church members stating why I am no longer a Christian, and why I have become an atheist. I also posted this on the Internet Infidels Discussion Boards, which is more or less my 'home' as far as message boards go. I am posting this here because I was curious as to what other Christians thought about it. My own church and Christian community has completely shunned and ignored me. (At least they didn't burn me at the stake)

Anyways, Mods- I hope this was the best place to post this, and I hope it isn't too offensive or anything. Feel free to delete or move this post if it goes against board policy.

My letter is way to long to post in a thread, it is 40 pages long, so I am just going to provide the link where you can read it on my webspace. Go to dubya dubya dubya dot letter dot ekdromos dot com. Sorry it won't let me post a link.

Let me know what you all think

-Ender

P.S. you can also check out the link on my profile

 

[Chavez]

I'll read it in about an hour...but before I do..
I just wonder how a church could shun a member?
Wouldn't you wanna help a person out..anywho..
I'll get back to ya in a while.

 

[Chavez]

w w w . letter . ekdromos . com

dubya?

 

[Anti Existance]

I've seen much stronger Atheists then you , you don't have a leg to stand on. You pick quotes from here and there, which you agree on which are the foundations of you being an atheist which is just absolutely rediculous, i would respect you if you said , i am an atheist because of -reason 1- reason 2- reason 3- , not an entire 26 page consult of attempts to try to find reasons against God why he couldn't exist. The tremendous effort that you have tried to exert to disaprove of God's existance only shows that we have only all the more reason to believe in God as he is. Which i as a former Atheist can perfectly perceive. If you base God existance on a mere quotes of man-kind then i pitty you. If you base Christian beliefs on Christian behaviour around you instead of listening to the words of Jesus Christ himself, then i pitty you even more. Let me ask you and answer me this, HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE BIBLE YOURSELF? Stop judging books on their covers. Provide solid proof, make your claims strong and not build on sand.

You do not know yourself, how can you even begin to understand what Gods love towards you is then? How can you be blind like this, if you had arguments with solid proof against Jesus claims then surely i would at least have listened, im always open for a good argument, but you .. have nothing....

 

[NothingButTheBlood]

No offence but why would someone come to a Christian board to simply post a link to an article about how they are no longer Christian. I just don't get it sometimes. I don't walk around looking for atheist boards to register at to harass them. Guess I'm stupid or something. There are times I really can't wait to be out of this world and on to the next.

 

[Vi]

...didn't read the letter

didn't think it necessary, not really the point to the posting. I think the posting has a silent message in it.

you want someone to talk to, to talk with, or to talk to you.

why?

well, seems like maybe you want someone to answer all your issues with the wave of a magic hand maybe? and to make it all better, so you can be a Christian without any suffering or pain or doubt or worries. or maybe you want something else. Maybe you are mixing things up in your life and transfering anger onto your faith instead of somewhere else... problem is, we can't know - because you aren't really saying why you are posting here.

look, we'll pray for you. We'll talk with you and answer questions. We'll share hardships and praises.

what is it you need? Let's get more direct here, dial us direct and we'll respond. K? k.

 

[Vi]

This is simply a personal letter to the whole world. This writing simply serves to let the whole world know why it is that I have turned my back on Christianity, and have embraced a non-theistic view of reality. This letter is, in short, why I do not believe in God anymore- a few of the reasons that I can think of, and an explanation of each of them from my point of view, through my eyes. I did not enjoy writing this, and I am rather loath to make all of this public. However, I believe it is necessary to make my views public, so that I can live without pretense. I do not ever want anyone to say “Hey, ya still going to that Church?” Or “Hey will you join us in prayer?” unaware that I am now an atheist.

well, that's all I really needed to read.

To me it says that you don't ever want someone to approach you about your loss of faith. Yet, you post here about it.

you say you do not enjoy writing it, yet you spend obsessive amounts of time doing so.

You say you don't want to make it public yet you post it where others can read it and come here to get others to read it.

Maybe you want to spread evil through it... after all the mere mention of God can stimulate and strengthen the presence... or maybe you want to be talked out of it. or Maybe you want to be told how wise you are and that we all should stop believing... but that's pretty childish, huh? Maybe you don't know how to ask for

PS, hey, do you want to pray with us?

no, really

I'm praying for you brother.

 

[soap]

Well, I am new here, and I had no idea where to post this. I didn't want to get in trouble by posting this in the general apologetics section, so I am posting it here. This is a letter of 'personal testimony' if sorts that I sent to all of my friends and family and former church members stating why I am no longer a Christian, and why I have become an atheist. I also posted this on the Internet Infidels Discussion Boards, which is more or less my 'home' as far as message boards go. I am posting this here because I was curious as to what other Christians thought about it. My own church and Christian community has completely shunned and ignored me. (At least they didn't burn me at the stake)

Anyways, Mods- I hope this was the best place to post this, and I hope it isn't too offensive or anything. Feel free to delete or move this post if it goes against board policy.

My letter is way to long to post in a thread, it is 40 pages long, so I am just going to provide the link where you can read it on my webspace. Go to dubya dubya dubya dot letter dot ekdromos dot com. Sorry it won't let me post a link.

Let me know what you all think

-Ender

P.S. you can also check out the link on my profile

I did not read the letter also, only because I am limited on time. I do not know if others in the Christian community have hurt you, but please remember that we are all sinners, and you can only look to God. He is the only Perfect one.

 

[NothingButTheBlood]

I read the letter. It is basically him talking about how his ministry didn't go the way "he" wanted and how "he" has not gotten what "he" wants in life so I must be God's fault. Maybe if you ran your ministry based on what God wants and lived your life for God and not yourself things may have been different. I also think he is unhappy with decisions he made as a soldier and is upset with God for his choices there too. I also get the impression he does things to stick out and in the military it was God and now that he is out of there he wants to stick out againg and to do that it's to not be religious. He makes it clear in the first paragraph that his hearing impaired parents always told him how stupid and inconciderate the hearing are. I think he may have internallized a lot of that and has always tried to "prove" himself to them while at the same time resenting them for hurting him with the things they said about hearing people since he was one. That's my pofessional opinion, take it or leave it.

 

[Chavez]

Well I'm in the process of reading it...2/3 of the way there.
I'll get back to ya later when I've finished it..
Sorry I'm takin so long.

 

[Ender Wiggin 26]

Well, I just got back from out of town, so I finally have a chance to read all of the replies. Wow, well I don’t have a lot of time right now to respond to everything, so I’ll just say a few quick things. Why did I post this here? I really just wanted the opinions of other Christians. I am not a Christian-hater and I really do value the opinions of anyone on this message board. I am not trying to rabble-rouse or convince others to stop believing. I just love feedback. Yes even negative feedback. Even the mean-spirited sarcastic feedback which I read (and expected) but by no means take offense to. I posted this on a Christian forum because I value criticism. It helps me think of things I didn’t think of when I wrote what I wrote.



Yes, I am aware that I sometimes contradict myself. Two reasons, first I don’t always express myself that well, and second, I’m really not that smart. I mean, I don’t have a degree or anything. So those of you who responded with a kind of “I’m smarter than you, you are dumb for what you wrote” kind of tone, well, hey, maybe you are right, and I just haven’t figured that out yet.



I know I didn’t back a lot of my points up with research, I know I don’t have a bibliography and the end of it. I didn’t spend a lot of time on it and I just wanted to get it off my chest. Sue me. If you want to discuss the points I made and why they are wrong, I would love to hear them. Seriously. That’s half the reason I wrote that thing, so that someone could write to me and refute my main points. That way I can think about it some more in a different light.

Yes, I have read the Bible. Cover to cover twice, and I’m working on doing it again.

If I am so stupid as some of you claim that I am, well, I would love to learn more. Just talk to me.


-Ender

 

[Ender Wiggin 26]

well, that's all I really needed to read.

To me it says that you don't ever want someone to approach you about your loss of faith. Yet, you post here about it.

you say you do not enjoy writing it, yet you spend obsessive amounts of time doing so.

You say you don't want to make it public yet you post it where others can read it and come here to get others to read it.

Maybe you want to spread evil through it... after all the mere mention of God can stimulate and strengthen the presence... or maybe you want to be talked out of it. or Maybe you want to be told how wise you are and that we all should stop believing... but that's pretty childish, huh? Maybe you don't know how to ask for

PS, hey, do you want to pray with us?

no, really

I'm praying for you brother.

Actually, what I meant by that (what you quoted me on) is, I didn't want to keep my beliefs secret by not bothering to tell anyone, I didn't want someone to assume I was still a Christian, so I let everyone know at once. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. By the way, even though I don't really believe in it, I kinda appriciate you saying that you are praying for me. (no really, I'm serious)

It is not that I don't want anyone to approach me about my loss of faith, I just don't want them to approach me uninformed.

 

[Ender Wiggin 26]

I'll read it in about an hour...but before I do..
I just wonder how a church could shun a member?
Wouldn't you wanna help a person out..anywho..
I'll get back to ya in a while.

Good question. I don't understand it either. I was friends with some of them for over 4 years. I also for a great deal of time, volunteered like 10 hours a week at that church. Now I am invisible. To them, I no longer exist.

 

[Quijote]

I also posted this on the Internet Infidels Discussion Boards, which is more or less my 'home' as far as message boards go. I

That place sounds like a riot!!

Anyway, I am not good at helping people with their problem, I can only wish you the best in your spiritual journey and I pray/hope that God leads you back to him.

cheers

 

[NothingButTheBlood]

Good question. I don't understand it either. I was friends with some of them for over 4 years. I also for a great deal of time, volunteered like 10 hours a week at that church. Now I am invisible. To them, I no longer exist.

Well, for one thing you are pretty bitter and angry in your post and here. I imagine if you shown these people some of that they see no reason to be nice back. Also, you have completely turned your back on God. Maybe they feel you will be a bad influence on them and others.

 

[Ender Wiggin 26]

Well, for one thing you are pretty bitter and angry in your post and here. I imagine if you shown these people some of that they see no reason to be nice back. Also, you have completely turned your back on God. Maybe they feel you will be a bad influence on them and others.

Interesting point, NBTB, I'll have to think about it.

 

[Writer before God]

My question is did you realy ever even accept christ as your king? ...

 

[Ender Wiggin 26]

...didn't read the letter

didn't think it necessary, not really the point to the posting. I think the posting has a silent message in it.

you want someone to talk to, to talk with, or to talk to you.

why?

well, seems like maybe you want someone to answer all your issues with the wave of a magic hand maybe? and to make it all better, so you can be a Christian without any suffering or pain or doubt or worries. or maybe you want something else. Maybe you are mixing things up in your life and transfering anger onto your faith instead of somewhere else... problem is, we can't know - because you aren't really saying why you are posting here.

look, we'll pray for you. We'll talk with you and answer questions. We'll share hardships and praises.

what is it you need? Let's get more direct here, dial us direct and we'll respond. K? k.

I guess I need to apologize for the method that I posted my letter on here. I should have written a bit more on why I would post it here. That was a stupid move on my part and I am sorry. When it boils down to it, I really wanted some non-atheist input, because the only people I have been discussing this with are fellow atheists and agnostics, and I really wanted to hear other points of view, particularly from that of Christians. I didn't really know what people were like on this board or how things worked, and I just kind of plopped my letter right in the middle of everything and was just like "check this out" which, again, dumb move on my part, I suppose I should have spent a little more time checking this place out.
But now I can't undo any of this, and I am too intrigued by many of you to just up and leave here. So, I'm just going to stick around for a while and try to clear things up as long as people are still interested. I will be reading an thinking about every single post that is on this thread, and taking it all into consideration (as I am doing on all the forums I posted this thing on) and trying to learn what I can from others, whether they are Christians, atheists, Muslims, Hindus, or Satanists (yeah I'm talking to a few of those, a very odd bunch they are) I'm trying to learn about this whole life and existence thing, as a skeptic, from every point of view I can. Why? I don't really know, I just find it fun and interesting to talk about these things.

 

[Ender Wiggin 26]

I read the letter. It is basically him talking about how his ministry didn't go the way "he" wanted and how "he" has not gotten what "he" wants in life so I must be God's fault. Maybe if you ran your ministry based on what God wants and lived your life for God and not yourself things may have been different. I also think he is unhappy with decisions he made as a soldier and is upset with God for his choices there too. I also get the impression he does things to stick out and in the military it was God and now that he is out of there he wants to stick out againg and to do that it's to not be religious. He makes it clear in the first paragraph that his hearing impaired parents always told him how stupid and inconciderate the hearing are. I think he may have internallized a lot of that and has always tried to "prove" himself to them while at the same time resenting them for hurting him with the things they said about hearing people since he was one. That's my pofessional opinion, take it or leave it.

From what I can glean from this response, NBTB, you seem to have rushed through my letter without reading it altogether carefully. Particularly your comment on my parents, which as my letter clearly states, I have a Deaf father, and a hearing mother, not 'hearing impaired parents'. You also seem to be on a mission here to attack my personal character and reduce me to nothing more than a jibbering idiot. You say that you can't wait until this life is over and you are in the next one. Is this because you constantly have to deal with people so stupid and worthless and far beneath you such as myself? Is it really that bad, being so smart in a world full of idiots such as myself?

I must say also that I didn't quite get your psychoanalytical summarization of my letter. I don't understand why you think I regret decisions I made as a soldier. I don't believe I said anything about that, or relating to that. There are also a few other areas in your reply that are a bit mixed up.

However, in spite of all of this, I would be stupid to be angry. First of all, you and I don't actually know each other. We met for the first time on this thread, not as people, but as text on a computer screen. That is why it is hard for me to take anything said on a forum personal. All you know about me is what I have written in my letter, so you are lacking quit a bit of information about who I really am. I know that you and I would have gotten off on a much different foot if we met each other in person. Heck, we might have become best buds!

I also can't really fault you for the angry tone in your response, or anyone here for that matter, because, as you have already pointed out to me in another post, my letter is quite full of bitterness and anger, and probably seems really abrasive to other Christians. I can be quite vehement sometimes, and writing that letter was one of those times.

I only hope that you can at least appreciate the openness and honesty that I have tried to portray my life and thoughts within that letter. Yes, I am angry, yes I am a tad bitter, but I am also just a normal human being that shares a lot in common with many of you, despite our vast difference in beliefs. Do we not all get angry sometimes? Do we not all lash out?

I apologize for any and all disrespect I have shown. I am truly sincere when I say that I appreciate every single response on this thread, good or bad, positive or negative.

NBTB, I hope that you and I may be able to discuss things further in the future. I find you to be an interesting and intriguing block of text on my computer screen


-Ender

 

[Ender Wiggin 26]

My question is did you realy ever even accept christ as your king? ...

You know, I was waiting for someone to ask me this question. My answer would have to be yes, however, I have noticed that many Christians can define this in many different ways, so I think you may have to elaborate and define what you mean for me to fully answer your question.