• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

A parable of Evolution

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,383
704
47
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
Hi there,

So look, I've thought a lot about Evolution now and I'm beginning to see where the impasse is. I thought I should share a parable to explain where the pitfalls of Evolution lie for me, let me know what you think (do you need to be told that? not unless you want to be polite I suppose).

There was a man who set out to work. In the first quarter of the Day he did his work well and after much perseverance he completed most of what he set out to start and thought about resting. Without even thinking about it, he called this work "Evolution". The next quarter was upon him and he set about doing his work, for the Day was still afoot and after persevering further he completed most of what he set out to continue, minus a little. Without even thinking about it, he called the same work "Evolution". He was well into the third quarter by this time and out of some semblance of commitment he pushed through working the third quarter completing most of what he set out to continue, minus a little more. Without even thinking about it, he called the same work "Evolution", for he had reasons to believe that what he was doing fit the universally applied conditions of the same. The last quarter of the Day began much as the first, much as the second, much as third, he worked and worked hard, though failingly for he was tired and he completed the work he set out to finish, minus a significant deal. Without even thinking about it, he called the same work "Evolution".

Now, a question, what happened to the work of the man who called the same work "Evolution"?

A second question, suppose the man then went to his supervisor and asked to be paid, but did not ask for a day's pay, but instead asked for four times a Day's pay, would anyone be upset?

These two questions basically encapsulate what I think of Evolution, in the context of the parable. As I am sure will become clear, people's wisdom and understanding of this parable will vary greatly and I certainly do not want to presume to have answer before people themselves give them, but suffice it to say, it is not because of anything described by the theory that would point to shortfalls in the use of it. Oh no, the problem as I see it, is completely the interpretation of the theory.

Ask yourself this, what did I know about mutation before I discovered Evolution for myself? And what did I know after I discovered Evolution about mutation? And what difference was there in respect of what I learned as to how I conducted myself relative to Evolution?

As you can see, there is little reason to believe that any change at all takes place in the individual no matter how much or how little they believe in Evolution. It is for want of a better term, a dead word something that made sense to someone once, for a little while, before they became preoccupied with the greater questions of life and recanted what they had said on their deathbed.

If that sounds a little harsh to you, that's just a reflection of how I am treated every single time I come to talk about Evolution. As if everything to the last breath of Darwin is the God inspired truth and I should accept it, even though it has absolutely no claim to the good of the soul or even the benefit of reason.

I'm not even upset, I'm just stating a fact, you give me no reason to believe Evolution is even meaningful.
 

florida2

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2011
2,092
434
✟40,691.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Hi there,

As you can see, there is little reason to believe that any change at all takes place in the individual no matter how much or how little they believe in Evolution. It is for want of a better term, a dead word something that made sense to someone once, for a little while, before they became preoccupied with the greater questions of life and recanted what they had said on their deathbed.

Belief and desire has nothing to do with evolution - that's why all organisms evolve irrespective of their mental capacity. Evolution just happens.

If that sounds a little harsh to you, that's just a reflection of how I am treated every single time I come to talk about Evolution. As if everything to the last breath of Darwin is the God inspired truth and I should accept it, even though it has absolutely no claim to the good of the soul or even the benefit of reason.

I'm not even upset, I'm just stating a fact, you give me no reason to believe Evolution is even meaningful.

To be fair, Gottservant, the way you are treated is because of your lack of knowledge about evolution. Just go and have a look at the evidence, yeah? Some people round here get tired of offering you the evidence and you refusing. It's no wonder some people may get a little irritated with your constant stream of threads which often make little sense.

All you ever do is post semantic arguments and attempts at philosophical ideas. That is now what evolution is about. Look at the evidence for evolution (eg. fossils, nested hierachies, genetics) and you will find data that does not rely on convoluted wordplay.
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,896
9,877
✟367,481.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If that sounds a little harsh to you, that's just a reflection of how I am treated every single time I come to talk about Evolution.

Unfortunately you don't seem to understand the concept of evolution at all, GS, and so people struggle to make sense of your posts.

I think you'd be better off leaving the whole topic of evolution, and posting (in the appropriate place) about something like morality instead. I suspect that would be closer to your comfort zone.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Delphiki

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2010
4,342
162
Ohio
✟5,685.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
6WOqH.jpg
 
Upvote 0

Vergil10

Newbie
Nov 24, 2013
123
6
✟30,312.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Hi there,

So look, I've thought a lot about Evolution now and I'm beginning to see where the impasse is. I thought I should share a parable to explain where the pitfalls of Evolution lie for me, let me know what you think (do you need to be told that? not unless you want to be polite I suppose).

There was a man who set out to work. In the first quarter of the Day he did his work well and after much perseverance he completed most of what he set out to start and thought about resting. Without even thinking about it, he called this work "Evolution". The next quarter was upon him and he set about doing his work, for the Day was still afoot and after persevering further he completed most of what he set out to continue, minus a little. Without even thinking about it, he called the same work "Evolution". He was well into the third quarter by this time and out of some semblance of commitment he pushed through working the third quarter completing most of what he set out to continue, minus a little more. Without even thinking about it, he called the same work "Evolution", for he had reasons to believe that what he was doing fit the universally applied conditions of the same. The last quarter of the Day began much as the first, much as the second, much as third, he worked and worked hard, though failingly for he was tired and he completed the work he set out to finish, minus a significant deal. Without even thinking about it, he called the same work "Evolution".

Now, a question, what happened to the work of the man who called the same work "Evolution"?

A second question, suppose the man then went to his supervisor and asked to be paid, but did not ask for a day's pay, but instead asked for four times a Day's pay, would anyone be upset?

These two questions basically encapsulate what I think of Evolution, in the context of the parable. As I am sure will become clear, people's wisdom and understanding of this parable will vary greatly and I certainly do not want to presume to have answer before people themselves give them, but suffice it to say, it is not because of anything described by the theory that would point to shortfalls in the use of it. Oh no, the problem as I see it, is completely the interpretation of the theory.

Ask yourself this, what did I know about mutation before I discovered Evolution for myself? And what did I know after I discovered Evolution about mutation? And what difference was there in respect of what I learned as to how I conducted myself relative to Evolution?

As you can see, there is little reason to believe that any change at all takes place in the individual no matter how much or how little they believe in Evolution. It is for want of a better term, a dead word something that made sense to someone once, for a little while, before they became preoccupied with the greater questions of life and recanted what they had said on their deathbed.

If that sounds a little harsh to you, that's just a reflection of how I am treated every single time I come to talk about Evolution. As if everything to the last breath of Darwin is the God inspired truth and I should accept it, even though it has absolutely no claim to the good of the soul or even the benefit of reason.

I'm not even upset, I'm just stating a fact, you give me no reason to believe Evolution is even meaningful.
here Let me google that for you
 
Upvote 0

[serious]

'As we treat the least of our brothers...' RIP GA
Site Supporter
Aug 29, 2006
15,100
1,716
✟117,846.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Oh, Hi gott, I see you are posting about evolution. Before we continue, a few reminders about what evolution is and isn't. These should all look familiar, because you've been told them before. Many, many times.

1. Evolution is the change in allele frequency in a population over time.
2. We don't choose to, or not to, evolve
3. Populations evolve, individuals don't.
4. Evolution is a description of real world events, not a theory of morality. It does not proscribe any action on our part.
5. There is no such thing as "completely evolved." Evolution is a process, not an end point.
6. All modern day creatures have been evolving for the same amount of time and are thus equally evolved.
7. Non living things don't evolve
8. "Belief" is not a genetic trait. Belief does not evolve in the biological sense.
9. We do not expect all populations to solve all problems in the exact same way. (ex. The fact that birds evolved wings does not mean we expect all creatures to evolve wings)
10. Adding the "evolved" or "evolutionarily" doesn't make what ever you are saying relevant to evolution. (ex. "what's the best pizza topping, evolutionarily speaking" makes no sense because pizza toppings are unrelated to evolution.)
Hi there,

So look, I've thought a lot about Evolution now and I'm beginning to see where the impasse is. I thought I should share a parable to explain where the pitfalls of Evolution lie for me, let me know what you think (do you need to be told that? not unless you want to be polite I suppose).

There was a man who set out to work. In the first quarter of the Day he did his work well and after much perseverance he completed most of what he set out to start and thought about resting. Without even thinking about it, he called this work "Evolution". The next quarter was upon him and he set about doing his work, for the Day was still afoot and after persevering further he completed most of what he set out to continue, minus a little. Without even thinking about it, he called the same work "Evolution". He was well into the third quarter by this time and out of some semblance of commitment he pushed through working the third quarter completing most of what he set out to continue, minus a little more. Without even thinking about it, he called the same work "Evolution", for he had reasons to believe that what he was doing fit the universally applied conditions of the same. The last quarter of the Day began much as the first, much as the second, much as third, he worked and worked hard, though failingly for he was tired and he completed the work he set out to finish, minus a significant deal. Without even thinking about it, he called the same work "Evolution".

Now, a question, what happened to the work of the man who called the same work "Evolution"?

A second question, suppose the man then went to his supervisor and asked to be paid, but did not ask for a day's pay, but instead asked for four times a Day's pay, would anyone be upset?

These two questions basically encapsulate what I think of Evolution, in the context of the parable. As I am sure will become clear, people's wisdom and understanding of this parable will vary greatly and I certainly do not want to presume to have answer before people themselves give them, but suffice it to say, it is not because of anything described by the theory that would point to shortfalls in the use of it. Oh no, the problem as I see it, is completely the interpretation of the theory.

Ask yourself this, what did I know about mutation before I discovered Evolution for myself? And what did I know after I discovered Evolution about mutation? And what difference was there in respect of what I learned as to how I conducted myself relative to Evolution?

As you can see, there is little reason to believe that any change at all takes place in the individual no matter how much or how little they believe in Evolution. It is for want of a better term, a dead word something that made sense to someone once, for a little while, before they became preoccupied with the greater questions of life and recanted what they had said on their deathbed.

If that sounds a little harsh to you, that's just a reflection of how I am treated every single time I come to talk about Evolution. As if everything to the last breath of Darwin is the God inspired truth and I should accept it, even though it has absolutely no claim to the good of the soul or even the benefit of reason.

I'm not even upset, I'm just stating a fact, you give me no reason to believe Evolution is even meaningful.

2. We don't choose to, or not to, evolve
3. Populations evolve, individuals don't.
5. There is no such thing as "completely evolved." Evolution is a process, not an end point.
8. "Belief" is not a genetic trait. Belief does not evolve in the biological sense.
10. Adding the "evolved" or "evolutionarily" doesn't make what ever you are saying relevant to evolution. (ex. "what's the best pizza topping, evolutionarily speaking" makes no sense because pizza toppings are unrelated to evolution.)

Are you trying to get it wrong?
 
Upvote 0

[serious]

'As we treat the least of our brothers...' RIP GA
Site Supporter
Aug 29, 2006
15,100
1,716
✟117,846.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes and if anything truly has evolved as much as is humanly possible, it dies.

Add that to your list.

3. Populations evolve, individuals don't.
5. There is no such thing as "completely evolved." Evolution is a process, not an end point.
6. All modern day creatures have been evolving for the same amount of time and are thus equally evolved.
 
Upvote 0

Kylie

Defeater of Illogic
Nov 23, 2013
15,069
5,309
✟327,545.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Hi there,

So look, I've thought a lot about Evolution now and I'm beginning to see where the impasse is. I thought I should share a parable to explain where the pitfalls of Evolution lie for me, let me know what you think (do you need to be told that? not unless you want to be polite I suppose).

There was a man who set out to work. In the first quarter of the Day he did his work well and after much perseverance he completed most of what he set out to start and thought about resting. Without even thinking about it, he called this work "Evolution". The next quarter was upon him and he set about doing his work, for the Day was still afoot and after persevering further he completed most of what he set out to continue, minus a little. Without even thinking about it, he called the same work "Evolution". He was well into the third quarter by this time and out of some semblance of commitment he pushed through working the third quarter completing most of what he set out to continue, minus a little more. Without even thinking about it, he called the same work "Evolution", for he had reasons to believe that what he was doing fit the universally applied conditions of the same. The last quarter of the Day began much as the first, much as the second, much as third, he worked and worked hard, though failingly for he was tired and he completed the work he set out to finish, minus a significant deal. Without even thinking about it, he called the same work "Evolution".

Now, a question, what happened to the work of the man who called the same work "Evolution"?

A second question, suppose the man then went to his supervisor and asked to be paid, but did not ask for a day's pay, but instead asked for four times a Day's pay, would anyone be upset?

These two questions basically encapsulate what I think of Evolution, in the context of the parable. As I am sure will become clear, people's wisdom and understanding of this parable will vary greatly and I certainly do not want to presume to have answer before people themselves give them, but suffice it to say, it is not because of anything described by the theory that would point to shortfalls in the use of it. Oh no, the problem as I see it, is completely the interpretation of the theory.

Ask yourself this, what did I know about mutation before I discovered Evolution for myself? And what did I know after I discovered Evolution about mutation? And what difference was there in respect of what I learned as to how I conducted myself relative to Evolution?

As you can see, there is little reason to believe that any change at all takes place in the individual no matter how much or how little they believe in Evolution. It is for want of a better term, a dead word something that made sense to someone once, for a little while, before they became preoccupied with the greater questions of life and recanted what they had said on their deathbed.

If that sounds a little harsh to you, that's just a reflection of how I am treated every single time I come to talk about Evolution. As if everything to the last breath of Darwin is the God inspired truth and I should accept it, even though it has absolutely no claim to the good of the soul or even the benefit of reason.

I'm not even upset, I'm just stating a fact, you give me no reason to believe Evolution is even meaningful.

Yeah.

Thinking about evolution isn't going to get you anywhere if what you are thinking about is wrong.
 
Upvote 0