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A New Interpretation of Genesis
- Thread starter Practical-Christianity
- Start date
razzelflabben
Contributor
this is the most tiresome nonsensical argument for our religious beliefs of any out there...sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, it's just ridiculous when people try to make one's religious beliefs only about what they were taught to believe. All the time we see people walking away from what they were taught to hold to another religious belief and thus, in that alone, we evidence this argument to be ad homin.
The polemic of Gen. basically boils down to this, why would one worship that which is created when you could worship the creator. IOW's the argument doesn't fall apart at all because the argument does not involve the creator only that which was created. In order for it to fall apart, one would have to include the creator into the whole theory, which it does NOT.
Not my argument, but just thought I'd give my two cents to the topic, I do get feisty when arguments are presented that have not been thought through to their completion.
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I'm not quite sure I understand your double question. As to where did my God come from? My God always was. How did God create? He spoke.
How does it fall apart?
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In situ
in vivo veritas
I call you out on this one. This is a pure projection. No atheist I know about of would say that. They would say that the entire bible cannot be true, as claimed by Christians, if there is some false statement in it. This is simple logic!
It is YEC's that put up this false pillar and you are not to blame atheist for being the one that thinks that way.
I have noticed that a lot of former creationists that turned atheist and as well those that still are YEC's reason that if Genesis cannot literally be true then the entire bible must be false. This way of reasoning is not to blame on atheist but fundamentalist themselves - because it is YEC's who makes the claim that if Genesis is not literally true then nothing in the bible can be true. No wonder then if YEC indoctrinate their kids with this kind of way of thinking that these kids will - bitterly - turn their back on Christianity and become atheist when they later on discover that the Theory of Evolution actual has merits. In other words, YEC harms everyone - even Christianity itself since it make people lose faith. Imo, YEC lacks common sense balance.
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Nonsense.
It's more like this....if Genesis is myth, didn't really happen...then much of the bible can't be trusted.
Using your example...if Genesis isn't true....where the bible talks about Jerusalem...there isn't any city named Jerusalem..because everything in the bible is false.
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In situ
in vivo veritas
No it does not help.
Skeptics are usually aware of this, but a skeptic merely want to know what you consider to be "speaking" when you saying "god speaks".
Your statement is not a very precise one and as pointed out is is meaningless since it can mean anything to anyone. You could have as well said "revelation" - that word does neither tell the nature of the how the revelation too place. "God speeks to me" is a filler meant for the reader to fill in the meaning himself of "speaking" so it appears that everyone understand and agrees while in fact every one just make up whatever they "feel" fit in. These kind of filler words are frequenlty used by con artist to create an apperance of connection with the audience - that they are on the same "wave length" - while in fact nobody has any idea what the other thinks or speak about.
Therefore, when you say "speaking", then a skeptic wants know what you mean. It is then perfectly proper to ask if you refer to phenomenas previously been claimed to be communication with the supernatural or a spiritual world such as "having a feeling", or "a dream", or an "experience from drugs", or a "death experience", etc.
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Perhaps you can tell us how your non-god created everything from nothing? Where did the stuff in your Big Bang come from?
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In situ
in vivo veritas
Your logic fails.
No. Each claim must be addressed by itself.
I responded to the claim that some/most "atheist claims that the entire bible is false if something is false in the bible". I refuted this and claimed no atheist I know about makes that claims rather (former) YEC's do.
Why are you trying to make it look like I said/claimed something I did not? If something I written was unclear to you then please ask, but do not make up nonsense on your own and then claim I made up that nonsense. Like I said - it is YEC that makes up nonsense like this.
No. Each claim must be addressed by itself.
I responded to the claim that some/most "atheist claims that the entire bible is false if something is false in the bible". I refuted this and claimed no atheist I know about makes that claims rather (former) YEC's do.
Why are you trying to make it look like I said/claimed something I did not? If something I written was unclear to you then please ask, but do not make up nonsense on your own and then claim I made up that nonsense. Like I said - it is YEC that makes up nonsense like this.
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CarlaB
Active Member
I don't know, are you happy with that answer or do you think we should make up an answer? I know let's compound the problem by adding an ever bigger problem, let's say a God did it, now we have two problems we can't solve, we still don't know how we got here and on top of that we need to explain how the God got here, we could of course say the God was always here but some might see that as a cop-out that explains nothing.
I think I will stick with "I don't know" after all it is the truth, I really don't know.
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razzelflabben
Contributor
If the skeptic understood the context and source, in this case what the Bible says, then that skeptic would have the answer. You see, in scripture, God spoke directly to the people, as in Adam and Eve. As sin took more and more control over the earth and the people, God's direct word became less and He spoke more through dreams, visions, even the prophets. As we continue to move through the bible, God spoke through His word, that is scripture (which obviously was not the case before scripture was given) So, it depends on which ancestors we are referring to how God spoke. Today, He speaks through His word and through the HS.
That is why context is so important and ends more arguments before they are presented than what many are comfortable with.
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razzelflabben
Contributor
According to scripture, the heavens and earth were without form and void. IOW's the building blocks were there...iow's we begin our story according to Gen. with the materials being in existence, we can surmise that God created them from the polemic account as presented, but it really is not a question that is dealt with on any level in the Gen. account. Like the theory of evolution has a starting and stopping point, so does the biblical account. How about a hard question now?
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Of course you don't know....but you seem to know enough to deny the existance of a creator.
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razzelflabben
Contributor
awesome....so what is the question then, so far we haven't even dealt with "magic and miracles", but I guess if you want we can try to apply both to any question you want to ask....
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In situ
in vivo veritas
I did not intend to diminish the time you spent on this. Two and half week work time are not insignificant, it is still a lot of time, and shows that you are taking this serious. It was clear from what you wrote that you did want to make clear that you had more to say on this that possible could be fit.
The point I wanted to make is that everyone's time is limited and maybe you should trust the opinions of scientist that actually spent years on these questions, and have had their claims per reviewed in scientific journals, instead of some creationist that have some opinion on internet about biology.
I am aware of that, and also acknowledge that I do not know about you background. But based on what I know from what you written, I would still insist that those 100 hours is not enough for you to be able to judge on issue in science. For instance, in biology it is claimed that macro evolution is a fact - can you tell why this is considered to be a fact? (Don't worry, most non biologists cannot).
I am sorry, but I will be very straight with you now. I don't call distortions "arguments". I call them "distortions".
You been (intentionally or not) lied to. You been lied to about the theory of evolution and you be lied to about Genesis. They promised to give you the truth, and you gave them your trust, but they gave you lies. If I was you, I would be very upset with the people that did that to you.
It is for a very human reason; fear. We all react the same when our core beliefs are challenge, we feel fear and we feel very uncomfortable. I don't need to tell you how this feel - you have already felt this fear in your struggle, and you know how uncomfortable it made you feel. They feel the same but have decides to not challenge their own fear for whatever reasons. And maybe we shall respect their decision... However that does not mean we need to respect their opinions.
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Actually it says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." What did God create? The building blocks as you put it. Those "building blocks" were without form and void....
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razzelflabben
Contributor
not necessarily....if He created the heavens and earth, then they do not necessarily have to be without form and void....iow's from the literary standpoint, this is more of a statement of what we are going to be talking about, that is, creating the heavens and earth. Like I said, we dare not throw literary rules out the window when looking at the intended meaning of scripture.
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CarlaB
Active Member
That's because I have seen nothing that would indicate that a creator even exists, I've heard the stories but as far as I am concerned that's all they are, stories, every country has a different story to tell but they all have the same evidence backing the stories up, none.
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