A new CF, an old vision (3)

[Lisa0315]

the Bible ENCOURAGES homosexuality?!!! that there shows why this is a bad idea.

No, it doesn't. What it does is call for Christians to defend what the Bible actually says about Homosexuality.

Lisa

 

[JimfromOhio]

That's a well thought out post dude I think your anabaptist background is coming out ahead of your calvinism

LOL, after 20 years of attending an anabaptist church, there are still some anabaptist's teaching within me as well as Baptist, Calvinism and Lutheran.

 

[*Starlight*]

the Bible ENCOURAGES homosexuality?!!! that there shows why this is a bad idea.

That part of my post wasn't about homosexuality, you misunderstood it.

 

[frumanchu]

Just as I welcome non-Christians to my home and my church, I welcome them to my website. After all, that is what being Christian is all about - make disciples of all nations.

Forgive me if I ask a few questions that have already been answered. I just got back from vacation last night and discovered this whole shakeup, and quite frankly I don't have time to wade through 3000+ posts.

1. I read that you want this place to be a "safe-haven for Christians." It looks as though you define "Christian" as anybody who claims to be one. This means that Mormons and other radically unorthodox groups are among that definition. Does this mean you believe it is safe for orthodox Christians, especially those young in their faith, to be exposed to radically unorthodox teachings like those of the LDS?

2. You have also been clear that you view this site as more than just a discussion board. You view it as a ministry. As a ministry which draws back from taking a public stand on orthodox truths such as those contained in the Nicene Creed, does it seem reasonable to you that some may view this as falling into apostasy?

3. For years I have watched you take a stand to protect the most fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith to ensure that at least a core of truth was protected in your ministry. Aren't you merely taking the easy way out by removing some of the most fundamental guidelines of your minsitry, turning it over to the general populace of believers and non-believers, and letting the fate of a ministry rest in the hands of many who don't even believe in basic fundamentals of the faith? And all this largely against the counsel of dozens of people, including pastors, who advise you not to do so?

I know you think this will somehow solve the problems of infighting and offending people that have plagued us for the last year or so. It won't. It will only heighten it because you have removed many of the policies and rules which have to this point restrained things from getting even more out of control.

 

[Rochir]

Out of context - but im sure you know that. Just one more good example of how a non beleiver is not qualified to serve on a ministry. Bible knowledge and contextual usage is needed in moderation on a ministry at times indeed.

Thank you for the example though

Hmmm, interesting!

Then the same holds true about Christians voicing their opinions about, let's say, the Quran and Muslims? Because we all have seen people here do exactly that - voice uneducated opinions about a religion they do not know!

 

[Beastt]

Sure. Shepherds are used to keep the wolves from the sheep. CF has NO shepherds anymore. Anyone young in Christ will have NO protection from the wolves (either non-believers or self-proclaimed though deluded "believers") who will teach their "doctrines of devils". It's pretty well laid out in scripture for those Christians who read their Bibles. For those who don't, well, what can I say.

Since any "truth" which passes so fleetingly through the minds of those who call themselves christian on CF will now have the force of doctrine, I hope you know that you will be called to account for those you have led astray. And it will not be pretty.

If your "truth" can fall so easily to the "wolves", then it wasn't truth to begin with. One should always remember that truth can demonstrate that which untruth cannot -- compliance with reality. That's why heliocentrism won out over geocentrism. It's the reason almost everyone now recognizes that there was never a global flood and it's the reason evolution is gaining ground over creationism.

Truth doesn't fall to "wolves", untruth does. When you fear having your "truth" standing along-side what you perceive to be untruth, it would seem you have little confidence in your truth to be able to show itself as true.

 

[ContentInHim]

For whatever reasoning you want to put on it, God created confusion.

I know that even some christians pooh-pooh Paul, but this says it all:

GAL 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- [7] which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. [8] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! [9] As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

 

[JimfromOhio]

Well worth repeating.

BTW NIce to see you back among us.

Thanks !!

 

[Yeshuasteddy]

Well, I guess we just see the change in different ways...because I think that it's what CF has needed for a long time.

and yer dont think a erwin doin an about face is over the top? you specifically, do you care that ppl are devastaed bout it? or are you too happy now that its how YOU want it to be to really go out there and see how some ppl are hurtin? bein a christian isnt about bein happy that you got what you want.

 

[Lisa0315]

For whatever reasoning you want to put on it, God created confusion.

In the context of Babel, yes, God confused the languages. However, God is NOT the author of confusion. There is a great difference between what God did in Babel and what Satan does in the hearts of men.

Lisa

 

[MrJim]

LOL, after 20 years of attending an anabaptist church, there are still some anabaptist's teaching within me as well as Baptist, Calvinism and Lutheran.

I've been as vociferous and angry as any since yesterday morning. I slept lousy last night and even sent the family to church and stayed home cause I'm feeling a little under the weather.

I think though that you may be right~I've always respected your perspective (well, except for that calvinist stuff ) but I'll ponder that post some more, maybe there is more here than meets the eye.

I know why they call them "knee-jerk" comments, cause there' a lot of jerk in there

 

[Yeshuasteddy]

That part of my post wasn't about homosexuality, you misunderstood it.

then explain what yer meant. i quoted ya exactly.

 

[RoseofLima]

All it sounds like to me is that the CF babysitting service is closing it's doors, and members (particularly those who are not new Christians) will actually have to act mature and accept responsibility for the fora they frequent.

If a new Christian is so easily swayed on a website- what were their chances out IRL??? If mature Christians can discuss with reverence and love about their faith, I can't help but think the Holy Spirit will use that example and convict many hearts.

 

[Yeshuasteddy]

Forgive me if I ask a few questions that have already been answered. I just got back from vacation last night and discovered this whole shakeup, and quite frankly I don't have time to wade through 3000+ posts.

1. I read that you want this place to be a "safe-haven for Christians." It looks as though you define "Christian" as anybody who claims to be one. This means that Mormons and other radically unorthodox groups are among that definition. Does this mean you believe it is safe for orthodox Christians, especially those young in their faith, to be exposed to radically unorthodox teachings like those of the LDS?

2. You have also been clear that you view this site as more than just a discussion board. You view it as a ministry. As a ministry which draws back from taking a public stand on orthodox truths such as those contained in the Nicene Creed, does it seem reasonable to you that some may view this as falling into apostasy?

3. For years I have watched you take a stand to protect the most fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith to ensure that at least a core of truth was protected in your ministry. Aren't you merely taking the easy way out by removing some of the most fundamental guidelines of your minsitry, turning it over to the general populace of believers and non-believers, and letting the fate of a ministry rest in the hands of many who don't even believe in basic fundamentals of the faith? And all this largely against the counsel of dozens of people, including pastors, who advise you not to do so?

I know you think this will somehow solve the problems of infighting and offending people that have plagued us for the last year or so. It won't. It will only heighten it because you have removed many of the policies and rules which have to this point restrained things from getting even more out of control.

dont want that to get lost in the mire. bears repostin.

 

[Stormy]

Welcome to this crazy thread!

Welcome to the new Christian Forums!

Where will you go for peace and fellowship when all of CF is like we are experiencing right here.. right now!?

This is it guys! No rules, everyone all together, everyone saying exactly what they KNOW to be right. One big long hate party.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Forgive me if I ask a few questions that have already been answered. I just got back from vacation last night and discovered this whole shakeup, and quite frankly I don't have time to wade through 3000+ posts.

1. I read that you want this place to be a "safe-haven for Christians." It looks as though you define "Christian" as anybody who claims to be one. This means that Mormons and other radically unorthodox groups are among that definition. Does this mean you believe it is safe for orthodox Christians, especially those young in their faith, to be exposed to radically unorthodox teachings like those of the LDS?

2. You have also been clear that you view this site as more than just a discussion board. You view it as a ministry. As a ministry which draws back from taking a public stand on orthodox truths such as those contained in the Nicene Creed, does it seem reasonable to you that some may view this as falling into apostasy?

3. For years I have watched you take a stand to protect the most fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith to ensure that at least a core of truth was protected in your ministry. Aren't you merely taking the easy way out by removing some of the most fundamental guidelines of your minsitry, turning it over to the general populace of believers and non-believers, and letting the fate of a ministry rest in the hands of many who don't even believe in basic fundamentals of the faith? And all this largely against the counsel of dozens of people, including pastors, who advise you not to do so?

I know you think this will somehow solve the problems of infighting and offending people that have plagued us for the last year or so. It won't. It will only heighten it because you have removed many of the policies and rules which have to this point restrained things from getting even more out of control.

Agreed - well said and i asked about this "new vision' as well in light of erwins own words here : http://www.christianforums.com/t2851743-excuse-me-erwin.html&page=1 where he says :

Reasons:
1. To me CF is more than just a website, it is also a ministry, and this vision is something that only Christians understand and appreciate.
2. All our rules and policies, though it may appear generic, have foundations in Christian doctrine and the Bible.
3. This site is Christian forums and although non-Christians are welcome, the target audience is still Christians.
4. A large majority of Christian members will not submit to being moderated by non-Christians.
All of the above points can be challenged and counter-arguments brought forth, but this policy will not change while I remain webmaster.

This new thing doesnt match the above that he stated a year and a half ago. Im hoping that He will respond to what gives because God doesnt change so something doesnt add up here.

 

[No Swansong]

Welcome to this crazy thread!

Welcome to the new Christian Forums!

Where will you go for peace and fellowship when all of CF is like we are experiencing right here.. right now!?

This is it guys! No rules, everyone all together, everyone saying exactly what they KNOW to be right. One big long hate party.

Ahhhhh te days of PRE but now magnified. Is it really new or the return to something that didn't work the first time.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I understand what you are saying but the point I am making is that yes we need to be led by the Spirit, but we also need the Word. How many times have people commited an act of murder and said that the Holy Spirit led them to do it? Man can be deceived...by the enemy, by other people, and by himself. If what the "Spirit" is leading someone to do is backed up by the Bible, fine. But if someone is being led contrary to the Word of God then they need to drop back and take stock before they do something that will be detrimental to themself or to someone else.

Its not the Bible, or Church or anything that convicts people get get saved. The Holy Spirit is the only person that can quicken people to be saved. Without Christ through the Holy Spirit... we ARE NOTHING except worthy of going through the WIDE GATE of hell. We have to remember that its not the scriptures that are corrupted. Its a man's heart that is corrupted. Intelligence, reason, and choice. Spiritually, the Holy Spirit, the eternal Spirit of God,who dwelled in Jesus Christ, who empowers the Church, Who is the source of our life in Christ, and Who is poured out on those who believe as the guarantee of redemption.

My Bible is my authority but at the same time, I will never put my Bible ahead of God, the Author. Spiritual growth requires us to understand the Scriptures and get to know our God the Father, our Savior the Son, and our comforter the Holy Spirit. “Put on salvation as your helmet, and take the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God.” Ephesians 6:17 (NLT)

 

[ScottishJohn]

If the vision is changing then it wasnt a God given vision.

Has the vision changed or just the means to realise the vision?

Things move on and change. God uses the right tools for the situation, when the situation changes the right tools change. For instance the old Covenant and the New Covenant - two very different ways of relating to God which are rooted in an overall plan to bring the fallen world back to God.

 

[ContentInHim]

If your "truth" can fall so easily to the "wolves", then it wasn't truth to begin with. One should always remember that truth can demonstrate that which untruth cannot -- compliance with reality. That's why heliocentrism won out over geocentrism. It's the reason almost everyone now recognizes that there was never a global flood and it's the reason evolution is gaining ground over creationism.

Truth doesn't fall to "wolves", untruth does. When you fear having your "truth" standing along-side what you perceive to be untruth, it would seem you have little confidence in your truth to be able to show itself as true.

My truth is unshakeable - even by you. It's interesting how you have begun to assume the mantle of the elder atheist statesman in this thread. I have left many of the GA threads because of your blasphemy. Now CF may become so blasphemous without any regulation that hopefully it will burn up of it's own darkness.

My fear is for the new believers. They don't have the basis for strong belief yet and may never acquire it if they come to CF for teaching and fellowship and instead are bombarded by false doctrine. If those who love the new direction of CF have their way, tolerance will be the new doctrine and this is not LOVE.