A man's role as a leader - my new relationship

[suprdrk]

So I'm at the start of what has the makings of a great relationship and I'm incredibly excited. The previous, serious relationship didn't end too well (ironically my new job and move back to town killed what had been unbreakable long distance). But that's another story and it wasn't meant to be for some good, solid reasons.

So now, I'm seeing my first, truly equally yoked woman and it's awesome, mostly. The ex was perfect for my taking a leadership role because she was a younger believer than I was, and was struggling with priorities. Being a man and loving to fix stuff, I was more than happy to guide her into a more active practice and what not. However...that wasn't perfect because we couldn't speak as peers on most subjects and she grew to resent my well-intentioned help. And I grew irritated, in spite of my best efforts and intentions otherwise.

Now I'm faced with the very real prospect of a serious relationship with a woman who is, if anything, a stronger, more active Christian than I am. I always like to consider myself strong, my faith unbreakable (psh) and all that and generally love the fact that I've been on fire for the past year or so. But this woman is too. I'm not sure what image other Christians I know have of me (perhaps I need to ask), but she strikes me as something amazing, incredibly selfless with her time and energies (something I struggle with in spite of myself)...I can see the fire in her. And while I'd like to think (and hope) others can see that in me, her passion is a bit intimidating. Were it another man I'd probably want to pull away (though I've learned to fight that instinct too).

I'm sure there's much we can learn from each other going forward - aside from our secular small talk, banter about common interests and such we already have had some truly meaningful discussion about The Lord and our respective walks. Perfect right?

Only I'm....well, also at a loss for the proper word. Not afraid, or apprehensive, maybe a little worried about my ability to step up and lead here. I've got a lot of time to work it out anyway, especially as fresh as this relationship is, but it's something that's been on my mind. I brought it up at my small group tonight and ended up talking with another guy my age there who is a bit further in and feeling the exact same thing. He too, what I'd consider a strong believer, knowledgeable and passionate but faced with the prospect of a lifetime of leadership and an on-fire woman.....

The exact feeling is tough to articulate (neither of us could to a good job but both knew exactly where the other was coming from). Anyone else having thoughts like this, or had them in the past? Aside from being relentless in my study and ministry and staying the course, what's my course of action...or does this seem an irrational fear? What's the womanly perspective here? I'd love to talk about this with her but not yet...and going forward it goes against my instinct of presenting a strong front, whatever... which is nonsense but it's decidedly a guy thing I haven't fully grown out of. Where's the line between a partner helping another and the man being weak? Should I even be worried at all if she hasn't shown anything but relief that I'm a believer and joy that we can share our faith?

A less mature, less on-fire woman would certainly be easier but certainly not nearly as good for either of us, or for our journey in faith. And part of me wants that, and another part feels like an idiot for wanting the easy way out faced with a relationship that has the makings of something great.

A boggle this one

 

[Beautiful Fireball]

Why do you have to 'lead' her? A relationship is a partnership, where both edify one another. Whats wrong with keeping it that way?

Another thing which is a bit off topic but I feel the need to say it. It seems that you have placed her on a very high pedestal, which is a very scary place for a woman to be. Allow her to be human and have faults. I am sure she really is a wonderful person but it seems that you have placed her above you, which you shouldn't do. This is just an observation that I gathered from your post. Of course I could be wrong, so if I am just disregard this last bit.

 

[plum]

I agree with CoG about partnership v. leadership. In fact, there are many ways she could 'lead' you towards a deeper understanding of God, and nothing is ever wrong with that. If you feel bound to stay 'above' or 'ahead of' your woman in all aspects spiritual... then I think you won't be leading, but competing.
Comparing yourselves won't let spiritual intimacy prosper, in my opinion.

Since we are all on individual journeys towards God, and because we all need different things... perhaps it would be the most edifying to focus on how your strengths can build her up in her weaknesses and her strengths can do the same for you. Instead of "who's on top" focus on walking forward together, giving continually one to another without keeping track or keeping score.

or as C S Lewis put it... "further up, and further in."

 

[gailygirl]

I disagree a little with the other posts. Yes, I feel a relationship should be a partnership, but I also know where you're coming from in wanting to be the spiritual leader. I want the man I'm with to be that.

To me, it doesn't mean he's stronger than I am spiritually, or that he has more knowlegde than I do. It means that he models Christ for me. He's working hard enough to develop his relationship with God that I can be inspired to work harder in my walk, too.

It means that he has my welfare in mind and he looks out for me spiritually. If there's something in our relationship that isn't pleasing to God, or that may lead us astray, he deals with it, rather than waiting for me to notice it. It means I can trust him to make God-honoring decisions.

Yes, I should be doing all these things on my own, too, but so should he . That's just what I've always found spiritual leadership to be.

 

[Beautiful Fireball]

I disagree a little with the other posts. Yes, I feel a relationship should be a partnership, but I also know where you're coming from in wanting to be the spiritual leader. I want the man I'm with to be that.

To me, it doesn't mean he's stronger than I am spiritually, or that he has more knowlegde than I do. It means that he models Christ for me. He's working hard enough to develop his relationship with God that I can be inspired to work harder in my walk, too.

It means that he has my welfare in mind and he looks out for me spiritually. If there's something in our relationship that isn't pleasing to God, or that may lead us astray, he deals with it, rather than waiting for me to notice it. It means I can trust him to make God-honoring decisions.

Yes, I should be doing all these things on my own, too, but so should he . That's just what I've always found spiritual leadership to be.

I agree with this. But I guess the difference comes down to how you define leadership.

Both parties should be doing this, I don't necessarily think its only the guy's duty, but the womans as well. Hence partnership.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

Ditto to what CoG said. There is nothing in the Bible about the man being the primary spiritual leader. Both of you should be spiritual leaders to each other.

 

[gailygirl]

Now, I’m not going to try to convince anyone of my views, but I want to explain where I come by this understanding.

Ephesians 5: 21 – “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.”

I guess it comes down to a question of what “submit” means, since this passage does say “in everything,” which to me includes spiritual matters. Now, many people will say that it says “submit to one another” in verse 21. Yes, it does, so we should. However, it also goes on to specifically point out that wives should submit to their husbands. What reason would there be to include that unless wives do need to specifically submit to the man who is the head in their relationship?

Ok, so what does “submit” mean? A closer translation of this from Greek is actually “to subject.” “A Greek military term meaning ‘to arrange [troop divisions] in a military fashion under the command of a leader’. In non-military use, it was ‘a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden’.”
(Definition of “subject” from Greek-Crosswalk.com)

I particularly like “a voluntary attitude of giving in.” Not that women are doormats, because the definition goes on to imply that they assume responsibility, but that we voluntarily allow our men to be leaders. That takes work, at least for me! But that’s the other side of the whole man being the spiritual leader issue from OP. The woman has to let him be. She can easily be the leader too, but she doesn’t have to be. She can choose to allow the man to do that, no matter where he is spiritually. They still learn from each other, but she makes a conscious effort to let him lead her. I know that’s not very specific, but I’m still not sure how it really plays out in reality


See, marriage is a partnership, but partners don’t normally do the exact same thing. If they both had the same strengths and abilities, what point would there be in working together? They form a partnership because with their combined abilities, they are stronger. Most of us know (and if you don’t, go look it up) that this passage in Ephesians goes on to say that husbands should love their wives and wives should respect their husbands. A man does this by loving his wife as he would himself, and taking care of her like he would his own body. The woman’s side of the partnership is to respect her husband. She does this by submitting to him and allowing him to lead. So between the two, a strong partnership is formed when each person plays their role.

Sorry for the dissertation here . Again, I’m not trying to make you all think the way I do, I just wanted to explain my reasoning for anyone who might wonder where the crazy girl got her ideas

 

[suprdrk]

Gally has my motives covered pretty well I guess. It's not as if I think I must carry the relationship (at all times, though I think both partners must at times do this when the other is weak). My old man told me to look for a life partner like I'd look for a tennis partner - someone strong where I'm weak. Whether he came up with it or not, it great advice I've done my best to follow, and thats among the reasons I can see this thing going somewhere. Our personalities and strengths compliment each other's quite well.

I guess I didn't expect an answer so much as I wanted to hear other perspectives on the issue....and I'm glad I have. Thanks to everyone

I do appreciate the comments on competition vs. leadership too. Honestly this is a worry for me too. I am driven to lead as per gally's posts, but I never want to keep score, here or elsewhere. I think guys do that way too much and it does nothing but poison the relationship.

I'm confident the key here is to focus on the Lord...not leading the relationship per se, I'm just a little worried or whatever about the implications of that I guess. Probably just a combination of uncharted territory and new relationship butterflies. Which is also the reason I'm putting her on a bit of a pedestal too.

Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[puttingitoutthere]

I agree with gailygirl... Boths sexes are equal but have different roles in a relationship...

I just finished reading today 'boy meets girl' by Joshua Harris - it's an awesome book and i reckon any single person should read it. I wish I had read it along time ago! I think it will answer a lot of your questions suprdrk

Thanks

 

[VictoriasImage77]

Let her good qualities inspire you!

I think that men should lead to an extent. If a woman chooses for herself wisely a man who is a model of Christ, who puts her, their relationship and their faith first, she should not have fear. However, how often is this really the case? Everyone isn't always perfect, and that's where the partnership comes in. Sometimes a man can be sanctified through a woman. We were made to compliment one another.

I think when you meet your match, or someone who has what you've always wanted in a SO, you start to really look at yourself through the eyes of others. I know I was afraid of not being good enough, although for far more shallow reasons than faith.

I am sure if you are honest with her and pray about the whole situation you will be able to succeed when stepping up to the plate. I don't think she will look down on you for not feeling on fire right now. I am sure she was not always on fire like this, just talk about it with her and with God. It is good that she is this way, just let it inspire you instead of letting it make you feel inadequate. You already took the first step by examining yourself

 

[puttingitoutthere]

Oh one more thing...

Make sure the relationship is God-centered...

Just because she is more active or stronger doesn't make her views on issues correct. I once went out with a similar women... she had views on certain things that I didn't agree with but because she was more aggressive and had a better theologically understand I was easierly convinced. In some areas of this relationship we went down some wrong roads together...

I should have been a Man and stepped up to plate and lead much better. When we disagreed on something I should done some leg work and researched both views to determine who was correct, etc.

 

[FaithOFtheBroken]

Now, I’m not going to try to convince anyone of my views, but I want to explain where I come by this understanding.

Ephesians 5: 21 – “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.”

I guess it comes down to a question of what “submit” means, since this passage does say “in everything,” which to me includes spiritual matters. Now, many people will say that it says “submit to one another” in verse 21. Yes, it does, so we should. However, it also goes on to specifically point out that wives should submit to their husbands. What reason would there be to include that unless wives do need to specifically submit to the man who is the head in their relationship?

Ok, so what does “submit” mean? A closer translation of this from Greek is actually “to subject.” “A Greek military term meaning ‘to arrange [troop divisions] in a military fashion under the command of a leader’. In non-military use, it was ‘a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden’.”
(Definition of “subject” from Greek-Crosswalk.com)

I particularly like “a voluntary attitude of giving in.” Not that women are doormats, because the definition goes on to imply that they assume responsibility, but that we voluntarily allow our men to be leaders. That takes work, at least for me! But that’s the other side of the whole man being the spiritual leader issue from OP. The woman has to let him be. She can easily be the leader too, but she doesn’t have to be. She can choose to allow the man to do that, no matter where he is spiritually. They still learn from each other, but she makes a conscious effort to let him lead her. I know that’s not very specific, but I’m still not sure how it really plays out in reality


See, marriage is a partnership, but partners don’t normally do the exact same thing. If they both had the same strengths and abilities, what point would there be in working together? They form a partnership because with their combined abilities, they are stronger. Most of us know (and if you don’t, go look it up) that this passage in Ephesians goes on to say that husbands should love their wives and wives should respect their husbands. A man does this by loving his wife as he would himself, and taking care of her like he would his own body. The woman’s side of the partnership is to respect her husband. She does this by submitting to him and allowing him to lead. So between the two, a strong partnership is formed when each person plays their role.

Sorry for the dissertation here . Again, I’m not trying to make you all think the way I do, I just wanted to explain my reasoning for anyone who might wonder where the crazy girl got her ideas

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. I find it slightly entertaining that this is still seen as sometimes wrong and less important. That it somehow demonstrates a weakness in females. Such an important verse, yet so often not applied.


Personally, I would love for my SO to take take the roll of the man as defined in the BIble. The concept that she is responsible as being the spiritual leader, etc. etc.

With that being said, this is something that as a man, I take very serious, and its not always easy. Knowing that God has placed you to make decisions in context with God. To be the leader is not something that is easy by any stretch of the imagination.

For whoever wrote that its a partnership. While this is true to a degree, someone has to take the first step dancing.

 

[suprdrk]

Oh one more thing...

Make sure the relationship is God-centered...

Just because she is more active or stronger doesn't make her views on issues correct. I once went out with a similar women... she had views on certain things that I didn't agree with but because she was more aggressive and had a better theologically understand I was easierly convinced. In some areas of this relationship we went down some wrong roads together...

I should have been a Man and stepped up to plate and lead much better. When we disagreed on something I should done some leg work and researched both views to determine who was correct, etc.

Glad you brought this up - I'm with you completely here. Since I've posted this we've both been really busy working and all that and haven't had a chance to spend much time together. If nothing else I really do enjoy like-minded company and someone who can talk as an equal with respect to their walk. I mean, it should go without saying but the whole equally-yoked thing really helps

 

[suprdrk]

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. I find it slightly entertaining that this is still seen as sometimes wrong and less important. That it somehow demonstrates a weakness in females. Such an important verse, yet so often not applied.


Personally, I would love for my SO to take take the roll of the man as defined in the BIble. The concept that she is responsible as being the spiritual leader, etc. etc.

With that being said, this is something that as a man, I take very serious, and its not always easy. Knowing that God has placed you to make decisions in context with God. To be the leader is not something that is easy by any stretch of the imagination.

For whoever wrote that its a partnership. While this is true to a degree, someone has to take the first step dancing.

You seem to understand where I'm coming from - It's not that I'm inclined to shy away from the responsibility - it seems a heavy burden at times though. A friend pointed out to me that it doesn't seem heavy anymore if I stop carrying it so that says something positive about my faith and my walk...that was an encouraging thought. On the practical side this will help keep me out of apathy, and that's always good - over the years that's been my fight.

 

[Weasel7711]

So I'm at the start of what has the makings of a great relationship and I'm incredibly excited. The previous, serious relationship didn't end too well (ironically my new job and move back to town killed what had been unbreakable long distance). But that's another story and it wasn't meant to be for some good, solid reasons.

So now, I'm seeing my first, truly equally yoked woman and it's awesome, mostly. The ex was perfect for my taking a leadership role because she was a younger believer than I was, and was struggling with priorities. Being a man and loving to fix stuff, I was more than happy to guide her into a more active practice and what not. However...that wasn't perfect because we couldn't speak as peers on most subjects and she grew to resent my well-intentioned help. And I grew irritated, in spite of my best efforts and intentions otherwise.

Now I'm faced with the very real prospect of a serious relationship with a woman who is, if anything, a stronger, more active Christian than I am. I always like to consider myself strong, my faith unbreakable (psh) and all that and generally love the fact that I've been on fire for the past year or so. But this woman is too. I'm not sure what image other Christians I know have of me (perhaps I need to ask), but she strikes me as something amazing, incredibly selfless with her time and energies (something I struggle with in spite of myself)...I can see the fire in her. And while I'd like to think (and hope) others can see that in me, her passion is a bit intimidating. Were it another man I'd probably want to pull away (though I've learned to fight that instinct too).

I'm sure there's much we can learn from each other going forward - aside from our secular small talk, banter about common interests and such we already have had some truly meaningful discussion about The Lord and our respective walks. Perfect right?

Only I'm....well, also at a loss for the proper word. Not afraid, or apprehensive, maybe a little worried about my ability to step up and lead here. I've got a lot of time to work it out anyway, especially as fresh as this relationship is, but it's something that's been on my mind. I brought it up at my small group tonight and ended up talking with another guy my age there who is a bit further in and feeling the exact same thing. He too, what I'd consider a strong believer, knowledgeable and passionate but faced with the prospect of a lifetime of leadership and an on-fire woman.....

The exact feeling is tough to articulate (neither of us could to a good job but both knew exactly where the other was coming from). Anyone else having thoughts like this, or had them in the past? Aside from being relentless in my study and ministry and staying the course, what's my course of action...or does this seem an irrational fear? What's the womanly perspective here? I'd love to talk about this with her but not yet...and going forward it goes against my instinct of presenting a strong front, whatever... which is nonsense but it's decidedly a guy thing I haven't fully grown out of. Where's the line between a partner helping another and the man being weak? Should I even be worried at all if she hasn't shown anything but relief that I'm a believer and joy that we can share our faith?

A less mature, less on-fire woman would certainly be easier but certainly not nearly as good for either of us, or for our journey in faith. And part of me wants that, and another part feels like an idiot for wanting the easy way out faced with a relationship that has the makings of something great.

A boggle this one

Dude I am completely with you on this. I sometimes worry if I will be able to lead well when I am a husband, since its a challenge now. My father taught me a lot of things, like how to respect women, how to be romantic, and to be selfless, however he never instilled in me the fact that a man should be a leader in a relationship. So I grew up with sort of a whatever view of this, until my girlfriend, who sounds much like yours, came on the scene. She is the most amazing girl I have ever known and her spiritual maturity in certain areas far exceeds mine. It's good because when we yoke together with people like this, assuming its not unequal, their strenghts make up for our weaknesses and vice versa, as long as one person isnt carrying most of the load. She forces me to take the lead many times and I think its a great thing for me to learn and God is using her to teach me a great many things.

 

[JamesKnight]

Im glad i ran across this thread. This is something that i am so uncertain about the context of being the leader. Before i came to Christ earlier this year my views were that i wanted an equal in all ways.(or close to). I was married before and religion was a non issue as neither of us were. With my last g/f who facilitated me to take on my walk, she made a comment that she wanted the spiritial leader in a man. Im wanting to step up to that role but as a "Baby Christian" Im just not there yet. Im lost on this topic. Is there a book that explains what a mans role is? If anyone has read anything that you recommend id be interested in hearing it.