Ditto
I have never seen anything like a line of Popes going back to the Apostles from Lutherans???
No, since they do not have Popes and do not consider Popes to be anything but a human invention.
I wonder what evidence they would have that they are the Church Jesus founded?
Their adherence to the faith that Christ taught.
I think every one would agree that the Lutheran Church started with Martin Luther and that Martin Luther is the founder of that Church.
Yes, as far as the specific entity is concerned. Independent congregations were founded in the 1520 and appealed to Luther to lead them, which he did. But the "church" is not a club or corporation. It is the assembly of all true believers wherever they may be. As a result, the Lutheran church is as old as any other if we see "church" in that Biblical way.
I am sorry that you think I have been antagonizing or slandering. That has not been my intent. I am sure if this were a conversation where we could see body gestures and hear tone of voice you would realize that I can be a 'smart ass' at times but I always try to be considerate. However I have to confess that there are times when I have felt I was being attacked and I respond strongly.
I'm sorry you feel that you were attacked. From what I remember of past exchanges, this hasn't been the case. But the main point I was making--pleading with you, even--was to say WHY one believes this or that, not just to say "This is what we say." Most of those who are reading your posts do know well what the RCC believes, we just don't agree with it. That's why stating it again for our benefit is really not for our benefit at all, but seems rather to be just internet shouting of the "Tis so... Tis not" kind that goes nowhere.
The Catholic Church has records that can place every Bishop and Priest in a line going back to an Apostle.
So do a number of other churches. I can trace the lineage of my bishop back to Peter also.
This is just one thing that the Catholic Church has that it uses to show it was founded by the Apostles.
So then every church with bishops is OK with you as being a legitimate church in the way that yours is?
I have commented on Martin Luther but what about Anglicans. Being that you are Anglican maybe you can tell us if you believe your church to be the one Jesus started and show us how it was not founded by King Henry the 8th?
We believe that all Christians are Christians. I was actually shocked to read you say to Rick, a few posts ago, that no one can take exception to any doctrine at all as taught by the RCC and be a Christian! We'd never say anything like that.
All those who are true followers, disciples, of Christ we consider fellow Christians. The historical record is very stong that the church was planted in Britain in the first century, and we can show the place as well as subsequent history. It appears to have been established by one or several Apostles, possibly with Joseph of Arimathaea and Mary, the mother of Christ. It owed nothign to the Church of Rome and was probably planted before Peter reached Rome.
The Church agreed to accept the Roman calendar, liturgy, and some other worship matters in the 7th century, as opposed to the Celtic style, but until the Reformation there remained in England legal recognition of the separation of this national church from the complete control of Rome. In the 1520s, the Church asserted its right to govern itself apart from the Pope.
In 1570, the Roman Catholic Church, the Pope that is, abandoned hope of gaining control over it and separated from the English church officially. Henry, yo know, did not oppose Roman Catholic teaching and was never declared a heretic by the Papacy. The changes that did occur in the church were arguably no more than occurred in your church as a result of Vatican II, and yet you don't consider the Roman Catholic Church of today to have been founded in 1963 which, logically, you should if you are going to think that our church somehow became a different one in the 1530s.
