A Letter From An Atheist

AtheistVet · Nov 12, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Timatter, I see from your profile that you believe in atheistic evolution; so I have to ask this question.

What does it matter to you what Baptists, Muslims or Mormons believe or 'feel in their bosom'?

If you don't care, why should I?

You don't feel a burden to become a Muslim, or a Mormon, or even a Baptist.

I, on the other hand, have one; and I believe it is authentic.

As I'm fond of saying: I'm a Christian by election, and a Baptist by conviction.

So no matter what I say to you, you're just going to counter it with the other two.

If I say I'm a Baptist, you can ask, "Why not Muslim or Mormon?"

If I say I'm a Muslim, you can ask, "Why not Baptist or Mormon?"

If I say I'm a Mormon, you can ask, "Why not Baptist or Muslim?"

But the one thing I notice you guys NEVER ask, is if a person is an atheist or agnostic.

Even the Buddhists and Taoists here get a free ride.

It's not what we believe that bothers you guys, it's what we are.

Not quite. I've had people ask me why I'm an Atheist and not a humanist.

I had much more I wanted to type, but looking at your post history I felt it would be a waste of time. Simply put, you're equating asking "why are you this religion instead of that religion, when both have the same standards of evidence" with asking "oh yeah, why are you an atheist instead of... not sure what I'd put here." Religious maybe? We answer that question all the time.

AV1611VET · Nov 12, 2011

AtheistVet said:
Simply put, you're equating asking "why are you this religion instead of that religion, when both have the same standards of evidence" with asking "oh yeah, why are you an atheist instead of... not sure what I'd put here."

No, both don't have the same standards of evidence.

I usually shun getting into this, because it involves a lot of work and having to put up with ridicule and venting; but for the record, the Koran and the Book of Mormon can't hold a candle to the Bible and Its history.

66 books written over a period of 1500 years vs. one book, written by one man.

The Koran was written by Mohammad, and the Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith -- both claiming to be prophets; and we know that there are no more prophets after the Scriptures were completed in AD 96.

juvenissun · Nov 12, 2011

mzungu said:
Pride has nothing to do with it! There is nothing to be proud about coming to a personal conclusion. As for rooted prejudices would religion be also rooted prejudices?

The older I grow the more I am not afraid of what life has in store for me. If there is a hell or heaven, and I end up in hell then I will be very interested in examining and investigating this place. After all science is about inquiry. Leaving no stone unturned and all that

A baby has no idea on what a tiger can do.

AtheistVet · Nov 12, 2011

The rooster crows at dawn.

Tinker Grey · Nov 12, 2011

The moon is made of green cheese.

Jazer · Nov 12, 2011

AtheistVet said:
The rooster crows at dawn.

Did you know the Chicken will lay eggs if there is a rooster or not?

AtheistVet · Nov 12, 2011

Jazer said:
Did you know the Chicken will lay eggs if there is a rooster or not?

I hope so, they gotta go somewhere!

Jazer · Nov 12, 2011

AtheistVet said:
I hope so, they gotta go somewhere!

So how can you tell if a egg has been fertilized and if that egg will produce a chicken or not?

AtheistVet · Nov 12, 2011

Jazer said:
So how can you tell if a egg has been fertilized and if that egg will produce a chicken or not?

Wait and see if you get Balut (egg) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

timatter · Nov 12, 2011

AV1611Vet- "Timatter, I see from your profile that you believe in atheistic evolution; so I have to ask this question. What does it matter to you what Baptists, Muslims or Mormons believe or 'feel in their bosom'?" I'm saying that they all feel something that makes them think God is revealing to them that they have the right religion, but 2 out of 3 have to be mistaken if God is anything like the God I learned about as a United Methodist. That is the God I know the most about and the arguments for and against. For now it isn't Allah's rules that people in this country are trying to force everybody to obey. Look up Mississippi's Proposition 26 that narrowly missed being made into law this week. Fundamentalist Christians were trying to get their ideas made into law and forced onto people, including more moderate Christians who didn't share their views.

AV1611VET · Nov 13, 2011

timatter said:
AV1611Vet- "Timatter, I see from your profile that you believe in atheistic evolution; so I have to ask this question. What does it matter to you what Baptists, Muslims or Mormons believe or 'feel in their bosom'?" I'm saying that they all feel something that makes them think God is revealing to them that they have the right religion, but 2 out of 3 have to be mistaken if God is anything like the God I learned about as a United Methodist. That is the God I know the most about and the arguments for and against. For now it isn't Allah's rules that people in this country are trying to force everybody to obey. Look up Mississippi's Proposition 26 that narrowly missed being made into law this week. Fundamentalist Christians were trying to get their ideas made into law and forced onto people, including more moderate Christians who didn't share their views.

Would you please do me a favor and cut to the chase and tell me what your particular concern is; instead of talking about everyone else?

Jazer · Nov 13, 2011

AtheistVet said:
Wait and see

So is it the same with a Christian we have to wait and see? There is no way we can know from their outward appearance? Of course your an atheist so I am sure that any connection goes right over your head. After all an egg is an agg and they all look the same and perhaps even taste the same if you were to crack them open and eat them.

mzungu · Nov 13, 2011

AV1611VET said:
No, both don't have the same standards of evidence.

I usually shun getting into this, because it involves a lot of work and having to put up with ridicule and venting; but for the record, the Koran and the Book of Mormon can't hold a candle to the Bible and Its history.

66 books written over a period of 1500 years vs. one book, written by one man.

The Koran was written by Mohammad, and the Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith -- both claiming to be prophets; and we know that there are no more prophets after the Scriptures were completed in AD 96.

I have seen it claimed here in CF that the Bible was written by one man also; God himself???

AV1611VET · Nov 13, 2011

mzungu said:
I have seen it claimed here in CF that the Bible was written by one man also; God himself???

Fair enough -- and the point about 1500 years?

In fact, I could make this much harder:

Written on three continents.
Written in three languages.
Written by secretaries who barely knew each other, if at all.
Written in war, written in peace, written under martial law.

And did you see my thread about the mathematically-balanced layout of the books of the Old Testament?

chuck77 · Nov 13, 2011

The Bible is the inspired word/thoughts of God written down by men. Ok?

Lord Emsworth · Nov 13, 2011

crimsonleaf said:
Dear Mathclub

I believe in the Big Bang, the age of the Earth and Universe, the evolutionary chain you describe. I also believe in God. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

*Nods* I think it would have been better to explicitly address God-of-the-Gaps argumentation, rather than theists in general.

Of course, for reasons I cannot seem to fathom God-of-the-Gaps argumentation is incredibly popular. And depending on who you listen to, yes, God and Big Bang/evolution/abiogenesis/what-have-you ARE mutually exclusive.

RickG · Nov 13, 2011

Lord Emsworth said:
*Nods* I think it would have been better to explicitly address God-of-the-Gaps argumentation, rather than theists in general.

Of course, for reasons I cannot seem to fathom God-of-the-Gaps argumentation is incredibly popular. And depending on who you listen to, yes, God and Big Bang/evolution/abiogenesis/what-have-you ARE mutually exclusive.

I agree that God of the Gaps is popular and it does sound quite appealing on the surface. However, the deeper I look into that hypothesis I see the same pseudoscience surfacing that is found in the creationist literature. The ultimate fault in it is that it begins with an ending scenario and cherry picks information that supports the hypothesis, ignoring all the evidence that conflicts with it. Science doesn't work that way. Science goes where the evidence leads, not where one wants it to lead.

Doveaman · Nov 13, 2011

mzungu said:
The key words here are: "Believe in" and "Accept". One can believe in a God(s) and still accept Evolution.

One can also Accept God and Believe in Evolution.

One does not "believe" in a scientific theory but "accepts" a scientific theory.

One does not only believe in God but also accepts God.

On the other hand in religions one must "accept" in order to "believe".

Nope -- we accept because we believe.

There are fundamental differences between science, the physical world and that of the supernatural and faith based world.

Yup -- science is myopic and faith isn't.

What is important is that we first learn to respect each other's beliefs and principles before we pass judgements!

From what you have written, you clearly do not respect Christian beliefs but you are passing judgments on what it is or isnt.

I am an avowed atheist but agree to the Orthodox Church's dogma of: "One will not necessarily go to hell if one does not accept Christ, but by following Christ one will be on a better path to heaven". This means that even if one is not a Christian one may enter heaven if one leads an honest life based on Jesus' principles of love, compassion, forgiveness.

An avowed atheist who believes we can follow Christ into heaven? Are you serious?

I stopped believing in God when I was around 9 years old! Evolution had nothing to do with it; it was purely a logical conclusion for me!

Since your adult conclusions about God are not logical this gives us reasons to logically conclude that your conclusions about God as a 9 year old child were not logical.

I do however support the right to worship and the right to religious belief. Free will is no good if one is not allowed to exercise it!

Free will is also no good if we exercise it to foolishly worship a non-existent God. Which is precisely what you think we are doing, right?

Doveaman · Nov 13, 2011

RickG said:
I agree that God of the Gaps is popular and it does sound quite appealing on the surface. However, the deeper I look into that hypothesis I see the same pseudoscience surfacing that is found in the creationist literature.

You mean like the dark-matter and dark-energy gods of the 96% gap?

The ultimate fault in it is that it begins with an ending scenario and cherry picks information that supports the hypothesis, ignoring all the evidence that conflicts with it.

Which reminds me of the Big Bang model.

Science doesn't work that way. Science goes where the evidence leads, not where one wants it to lead.

Big Bang cosmologists would disagree with you. They have a non sequitur approach to science:

RickG · Nov 13, 2011

Doveaman said:
You mean like the dark-matter and dark-energy gods of the 96% gap?

No, that is not what I mean.

Which reminds me of the Big Bang model.
Big Bang cosmologists would disagree with you. They have a non sequitur approach to science:

The big bang explains the expanding universe. It is more than a mathematical equation. It is physically observed.

A Letter From An Atheist

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