A Kingdom Divided Against Itself Cannot Stand!

[YESLORDIWILL]

 

[branchofthevine]

That is a good thought, and a good prayer that we should strive to keep, but historically speaking it might not have mattered if Luther nailed those documents to the door in Wittenberg. There were men like Karlstadt (or Carlstadt if you want) and Zwingli who were also reforming, granted Karlstadt was with Luther in Germany, but Zwingli developed independently, and from his town of Zurich the Anabaptists first arose.

The Reformation would have had a different look for sure, and perhaps people like Calvin and Bucer may not have risen to prominence, while others did, but that is just speculative theorizing which is no good.


A great foil for Luther was Spain under Isabella in the late 15th Century (20-30 years before Luther's nailing on the door). Isabella was the Queen of Spain and saw the abuses in the Church (which was widely recognized across Europe because the Catholic Church was corrupt), and she decided to clean it up, she and a man named Cisneros (eventually becoming an Arc-Bishop) opened universities to educate the clergy, and provide strict reforms in terms of morality and what a Priest could and could not do. These Reforms, although not perfect, turned the opinion around towards the Church, and Luther's Reforms did not have any real effect on that area.

What do we do now, now that we have all these splinter Churches? Perhaps that is also a question to take into consideration.

 

[YESLORDIWILL]

 

[Vince53]

Deleted

 

[maryofoxford]

Zech 4:6 Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

I have such hope that we will see all of those splinters join the rod once again.

I know that so many are sure that the tribulation is right around the corner, but the LORD said in 2 Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

That has been my daily prayer and I believe we are going to see this great working of the spirit come to pass even in our lifetime, can't wait.

What did the monkey say when he got his tail cut off? It won't be long now!!
And I really believe it won't be long now Sorry, my humor is pretty bad.

Our Lord said that we should be like little children. That pure, simple, loving faith of a child...that is what He desires. At least to me, it seems that this is the kind of faith that you have.

I've always believed that those who truly seek to know, and do the will of God, will always find it. But, those who want it, must seek it earnestly and for unselfish reasons. I believe that so long as you continue along the path you're on, you'll find the answers you're looking for.

I believe that Martin Luther and others splintered off of the Catholic Church for selfish reasons. They might have started out as pure and good reasons, but how easily we let our sense for justice become a personal vendetta! Once that happens we will loose our way for selfish anger is never God's way. Was the Catholic Church selling indulgences? This is a practice that is condemned and always has been. To offer to give your hard earned money as a sacrifice to the church (either to support it, or to be given to the poor), is just fine, but it is never to be treated as a purchase of indulgences! In this sense, it was easy, in that day, for religious members to turn it into that; so Luther should rightly have called them on it. But, it should have been done in love!

Once he separated from the Catholic Church doctrinally, the Church tried to make peace with him and bring him back into the fold, but he became more and more radical, even to the point of ordering that certain books be removed from the New Testament, and added a word to change the meaning of scripture! When asked about this, he said that the epistle of James was "an epistle of straw", and that he could change scripture if he chose by telling the men asking that, "Dr. Martin would have it so!" There's so much to read about how he declined, but also how long he held onto his Catholic beliefs (many for the rest of his life). He always believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary, and the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Unfortunately the Pandora's Box had been opened and as a result we have over 33,000 different Christian denominations in the Protestant church today and growing! Could this in any way be what Jesus meant when He prayed, "Father may they be one, as we are one, I in you, and you in me."? Since Jesus said many times, "If you've seen me, you have seen the father." then I'd have to say, "NO".

I would suggest that you do two things. 1. Get a copy of the Early Church Fathers, by Jurgens. You can start on vol. 1, but you may want to read vol. 2 & 3 as well. The second thing is to read a Catholic Catechism, or Beginners Apologetics booklet. This will tell you what Catholic Church truly believes in a simple quick format. Hint: We do not believe in getting to Heaven by doing good works. We believe that you are saved through Grace by Faith AND works. Since the Bible says that, "You are saved by works." but more importantly that if you truly love Christ you will do the things that he's told you to do! Rev. Fulton Sheen, a very famous Catholic Priest that had a radio show, said once. "There are not 100 people who hate the Catholic Church, but many that hate what they mistakenly think the Catholic Church is, for it's beliefs. (This is an aprox. quote, but the meaning is still the same).

 

[YESLORDIWILL]

 

[WoodrowX2]

I do not want to take this thread off topic or the like there forefore I am just addressing the Next to last last paragraph of the above post

I have no intention of leaving my church for any other denomination, as I will not do that. Nor do I plan to try to teach those in my circle the things my eyes have been open to. I know for certain I could get some to see things from my perspective, but God doesn't want one more denomination, He wants one denomination, and a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. We are together in this, all of us, and I believe we will see (in our lifetime) His kingdom come and His will be done on EARTH as it is in heaven.

That I see as very good advice we should all take into consideration. While we humans do think we are in control. We are not.