A Great sinner

[Behold]

-
Simon a Pharisee once invited Jesus to dinner.
Jesus accepted the invitation
AS they were found discussing many topics...... a woman, defined by the KJV as a Great sinner, and in the "Now" Translation as a harlot/Prostitute.., came into the room were Jesus and Simon were reclining,.. as this is the tradition in that day, that you reclined while you ate, and conversed.
Simon knew this girl was a harlot/Prostitute.... and He was "freaked out", as he watched her anoint Jesus with very expensive perfume and then wipe his feet with her hair...etc.

Jesus knew what He was thinking, as God knows our thoughts, and He asked Simon a question, by teaching him a parable.

I'll paraphrase...

"2 men owned a banker money. One owed the banker $50 and one owed the banker $500.
The banker understood that neither could pay back the loan, and so the banker, in an act of kindness, forgive both men their debt.
-
Jesus asked Simon the Pharisee......"which man do you say would LOVE the banker more for this kindness"?
Simon replied...."i suppose the one who was forgiven = the larger debt".
"Correct, said Jesus".....and this woman you see who is anointing me is a great sinner who has been forgiven much".

And Saint,... what is interesting is that she was worshiping Jesus at his feet with her love, because she was already forgiven. She didnt come there to be forgiven... She came there to worship the Holy One who had, at some point previously, already forgiven her of her sin.
------

Now, how does this verse explain and define the difference between being a born again "good" disciple ...vs being a born again "Magnificent" disciple of Christ,.... as both are disciples?

Its like this Saint...
Colossians 2:13
When you realize and believe that ALL your sin is forgiven by Christ's Blood and death and resurrection, vs, only believing that some is forgiven. (Past sin)...just those from your age of accountability to the day you were saved, but not beyond.... you will behave differently toward the Lord and God, depending on how you realize the truth regarding the Blood Atonement's eternal result.

See, if you realize that ALL your sin is that $500, you will behave exactly as Jesus defined the greater debt being forgiven, You will LOVE JESUS MORE, and your discipleship will be powerful and sincere.
Thats a FACT.

If however, you do not understand or believe that all your sin is forgiven, and you are trying to deal with your sin by the effort of FLESH, ...you are the $50 believer, and you will not love Jesus as much and you will not be able to serve Your Lord with a perfected discipleship.

 

[5thKingdom]

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..just those from your age of accountability to the day you were saved,
.

What is an "age of accountability"?
What is that age?
What SCRIPTURE teaches this doctrine?

.

 

[Behold]

What is an "age of accountability"?
What is that age?
What SCRIPTURE teaches this doctrine?

.

The same scripture that teaches the "Trinity".
See, there are some things that are logical conclusions.
Its logical to conclude that when you were in your diapers, you could not read, and could not understand language...So, you were not of an age, YET, to make a decision based on decision making ability.

The age of Accountability, is just the idea that each of us comes to an age where we are old enough to be held responsible for our choices.
And there is a moment where we are of an age, mentally, intellectually, to understand the moral question in an adult way, and that is the moment that sin begins, even tho we are already of a fallen nature.
So at that mental and moral age, that mental place, accountability is determined.

 

[5thKingdom]

The same scripture that teaches the "Trinity".
See, there are some things that are logical conclusions.
Its logical to conclude that when you were in your diapers, you could not read, and could not understand language...So, you were not of an age, YET, to make a decision based on decision making ability.

The age of Accountability, is just the idea that each of us comes to an age where we are old enough to be held responsible for our choices.
And there is a moment where we are of an age, mentally, intellectually, to understand the moral question in an adult way, and that is the moment that sin begins, even tho we are already of a fallen nature.
So at that mental and moral age, that mental place, accountability is determined.

I understand your theory...
I asked for SCRIPTURE that supports your theory.
Do you have any Scripture that teaches men are NOT born
spiritually dead? Do you have any Scripture that teaches that
men are born "indwelt" and with Eternal Life... and LOSE that
when they become a certain age?

You do not need to add any comments...
just provide SCRIPTURE that supports your theory.
Thank you.

Jim
.

 

[Behold]

I understand your theory...
You do not need to add any comments...
just provide SCRIPTURE that supports your theory.
Thank you.

Jim
.

You provide one that proves my "theory" isn't true.
You are like the atheist who says...>"prove there is a God".
So, i tell them...>"prove there isn't.
I'll let my Thread speak for itself, and you are welcome to your point of view.
No verse supports your theory... so, keep that in mind.

 

[5thKingdom]

You provide one that proves my "theory" isn't true.
You are like the atheist who says...>"prove there is a God".
So, i tell them...>"prove there isn't.
I'll let my Thread speak for itself, and you are welcome to your point of view.
No verse supports your theory... so, keep that in mind.

No sir, that is NOT how it works.
You presented a doctrine (which normally requires Biblical support,
but you neglected to provide anything except your opinion).
If you are "teaching" a doctrine then YOU are responsible
for providing Biblical support for that "teaching".


I asked a simple question.
I will re-post that question and thank you to simply answer
WITH SCRIPTURES to support your theory.


What is an "age of accountability"?
What is that age?
What SCRIPTURE teaches this doctrine?


In fact, I will even make this easier for you.
I will re-post a more comprehensive form of the question
so that you will know EXACTLY what needs Biblical support.


Do you have any Scripture that teaches men are NOT born
spiritually dead? Do you have any Scripture that teaches that
men are born "indwelt" and with Eternal Life... and LOSE that
when they become a certain age?

You do not need to add any comments...
just provide SCRIPTURE that supports your theory.
Thank you.


.

 

[Behold]

No sir, that is NOT how it works.
You presented a doctrine (which normally requires Biblical support,
.

Im not aware that i posted a doctrine.
Do you believe that because you define it as a "doctrine" that this proves its one?
Hardly.
I posted a widely, world widely, accepted concept, (most denominations) that each person arrives at an age, which i described.
You arrived there, as did I.
This is not a doctrine, its just a fact.
To call it a "doctrine" would not be accurate.
If there is a doctrine you would like to discuss, then im all in.
Let me know.

 

[5thKingdom]

Im not aware that i posted a doctrine.
Do you believe that because you define it as a "doctrine" that this proves its one?
Hardly.
I posted a widely, world widely, accepted concept, (most denominations) that each person arrives at an age, which i described.
You arrived there, as did I.
This is not a doctrine, its just a fact.
To call it a "doctrine" would not be accurate.
If there is a doctrine you would like to discuss, then im all in.
Let me know.

You provided a "doctrine" about an "age of accountability"
I asked for BIBLICAL support.

It is NOT "Biblical support" for you to claim your doctrine
is (and I quote you) ".. widely, world widely, accepted concept..."

And you can hardly claim your "theory" is (again I quote you)
"... just a fact." Unless/until you provide SCRIPTURE to
establish that (Biblical) "fact".

Until then it is just your "feelings" or your personal "opinion"

If you have NO BIBLICAL support for your theory then just
say so... but if you want to pretend you are teaching Biblical
FACTS then you must provide Biblical SUPPORT for your words.

This is not a new process... this is how the church has either
confirmed or refuted doctrines for thousands of years.
Is this a "new" concept for you?


.

 

[Behold]

You provided a "doctrine" about an "age of accountability"

No.
You have claimed that i presented a "doctrine".
Nonsense.
Instead, lets switch from the rabbit trail that you are trying to create and talk about the Thread's topic, instead.

You go first, as i already did my part, i posted the Thread.

 

[5thKingdom]

No.
You have claimed that i presented a "doctrine".
Nonsense.
Instead, lets switch from the rabbit trail that you are trying to create and talk about the Thread's topic, instead.

You go first, as i already did my part, i posted the Thread.

OK, you posted a thread which claimed there is something
called the "age of accountability".


Can you show any SCRIPTURE that supports your claim
that children are NOT born "spiritually dead", they are born
"indwelt" with the Holy Spirit and have Eternal Life... only
to LOSE that Holy Spirit and their Eternal life when they
commit their first sin AFTER their "age of accountability"
(and, btw, what is that age?)

.

 

[Rachel20]

The proof text for an age of accountability is Romans 7:9

 

[5thKingdom]

The proof text for an age of accountability is Romans 7:9

Thank you.

/

 

[Behold]

Can you show any SCRIPTURE that supports your claim
that children are NOT born "spiritually dead", they are born
"indwelt" with the Holy Spirit and have Eternal Life...
.

Very young Children are not born again. But they are not "under the Law", yet.
So, unless you are born again, you don't have the "holy Spirit" in you.
However, because a child has not committed a sin, until they commit their first one, you have this in place, regarding them..
"where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression".
Remember that Paul said that "sin revived and i DIED"?
He is teaching that until the Law has dominion over you, you are not under its Authority.
So, THAT is the dividing line, between when a Child has no sin imputed to them, and when it becomes imputed to them, 5thkingdom.

A child, if they die before this first imputed sin, has no sin on them..
And so, as its SIN, unforgiven, that is the reason we are not able to God to Heaven, until this is dealt with by God, you have a child who has not committed any sin yet.....and they die.....so, "where there is no sin, there is no Transgression".... They have not sinned YET< so, they are not under the dominion of the Law yet, and this means that the rules that damn us after we commit our first sin, are not in authority over them, yet.

 

[5thKingdom]

deleted

 

[5thKingdom]

Behold said:
Very young Children are not born again

Do you reject this teaching of Jesus?

Joh 3:3-6
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old?
can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born
of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born
of the Spirit is spirit.


Behold said:
But they are not "under the Law", yet.

Do you reject these Scriptures?

Psa 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psa 58:3-4
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;


Behold said:
So, unless you are born again, you don't have the "holy Spirit" in you.

Do you teach salvation without the "indwelling" Holy Spirit?


Behold said:
However, because a child has not committed a sin, until they commit their first one....

As a father of six and grandfather of twelve, I can tell you that
I normally see a child commit sins between year 1 and 2...
it that what you consider the "age of accountability"?


Behold said:
"where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression".
Remember that Paul said that "sin revived and i DIED"? He is teaching that until the Law has dominion over you, you are not under its Authority. So, THAT is the dividing line, between when a Child has no sin imputed to them, and when it becomes imputed to them,

First, you did not provide a Scripture (please do not paraphrase).
Second, you provided you INTERPRETATION of a Scripture... another interpretation would be that Paul was saying he did not REALIZE his sin until he understood the law... that is a WORLD of difference. That is why you need to quote Scripture (which is why we have assigned numbers to verses - so we can put the verse within the proper CONTEXT.)


Behold said:
A child, if they die before this first imputed sin, has no sin on them..

Then are you rejecting the doctrine of "original sin"?
Do you reject the Scripture that says "in Adam all die"?

1Co_15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

.

 

[Behold]

Then are you rejecting the doctrine of "original sin"?
Do you reject the Scripture that says "in Adam all die"?

1Co_15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

I think that you don't realize that a very young Child, if they die, .. they go to heaven.
All babies who died, are in Heaven.

So, its true "that by one man's sin (Adam) many were made sinners", however, when the context is very young Children, .. if they die....they go to Heaven.

Now at what point a child is found with sin, found to be a sinner, ... is the dividing line, and this line is referred to as the "age of accountability".

 

[5thKingdom]

I think that you don't realize that a very young Child, if they die, .. they go to heaven.
All babies who died, are in Heaven.

So, its true "that by one man's sin (Adam) many were made sinners", however, when the context is very young Children, .. if they die....they go to Heaven.

Now at what point a child is found with sin, found to be a sinner, ... is the dividing line, and this line is referred to as the "age of accountability".

.


(1) First, I have been preaching for about 50 years so you
are being presumptuous (to say the least) when you say things
like "I think that you don't realize...". You should probably show
more respect in discussing Scripture with people.


(2) Second, the theory that all babies go to heaven or that
there is an "age of accountability" is not universally accepted
by Christians - and never has been. So, again, you are being
presumptuous to pretend otherwise. If you are going to teach
this doctrine then you need to be prepared to have SCRIPTURE
that supports your theory... and saying "Paul said...." is simply
insufficient because it provides no CONTEXT.


(3) Third, when you say (and I quote your words) "So, it's true
that by one man's sin (Adam) many were made sinners, however,
when the context is very young children... if they die... they go to
heaven".

(a) first, you did not quote the verse correctly. It does NOT say
"many were made sinners"... instead it says "all die". That is a
significant difference.

(b) secondly, the verse does not provide an exception for children,
so (again) you have presented your "private interpretation" as if
it were a Biblical Fact - without presenting SCRIPTURE to support
your theory. Presenting a "personal interpretation" is meaningless
unless you provide Biblical support for that theory.

(c) when we understand that salvation involves both the "indwelling"
of God's Holy Spirit and ETERNAL LIFE... it is no small thing to say
that someone has those things - and then LOSES THEM at age
2yrs or 5 yrs... or upon their first sin. So your theory is NOT
a simple doctrine and must HARMONIZE with all Scripture
(and not just your "feelings" or "opinion")


(4) Finally, when you say (again I quote your words) "Now at what
point a child is found with sin, found to be a sinner,... is a dividing line,
and this line is referred to as the "age of accountability".

Again, you present a "private interpretation" with ZERO Biblical
support. So your statement is meaningless as it stands. AND
it contradicts (a) the doctrine of original sin and (b) the Scriptures
that I already provided to you in Psalms (which you ignored).

So you are contradicting (a) accepted doctrine of the church and
(b) specific SCRIPTURES... and you provide NOTHING besides your
personal "feelings" or "opinion" as proof. That is NOT how preaching
has been done for thousands of years and that does not "prove"
a single thing.

Do you have SCRIPTURE that teach (a) men are NOT born with
original sin? Or (b) that an "age of accountability" is taught in the
Bible and is not just a man-made doctrine?


BTW: If supporting your "feelings" with Scripture is too much
for you then I understand and will not be offended if you just
do not respond to this post.


Jim
.

 

[Behold]

.


(1) First, I have been preaching for about 50 years so you
are being presumptuous (to say the least) when you say things
like "I think that you don't realize...".
.

You are preaching for 50 yrs.
So, how many babies have you buried?
(Funerals).
In "5o yrs", im assuming you've known a few families whose very young children, or even infants, died.
Didn't you tell them that their child was in heaven?
No?
Is that a no?

 

[5thKingdom]

You are preaching for 50 yrs.
So, how many babies have you buried?
(Funerals).
In "5o yrs", im assuming you've known a few families whose very young children, or even infants, died.
Didn't you tell them that their child was in heaven?
No?
Is that a no?

Why do you limit your question to babies?
I have buried more people (babies and adults) than
I want to think about. Including my own children and parents.
I suspect that very few were elect, since the Bible teaches that
FEW "Christians" are saved.

I always counsel they are in God's Hands now.
Does that make you "feel" better?

The fact is YOU cannot show me ONE VERSE that teaches
someone is saved without being "indwelt" or that anyone being "indwelt" and having eternal life can LOSE that "indwelling" or
that eternal life.

You cannot even address the 3 days and 3 nights
of the Atonement.

.