A God who hates and creates evil and sin?

[Hagios17]

Jacobhall86

I am Calvinist and I can reason… I just made an honest mistake. No need to burst out in finger pointing and name-calling. I don’t believe in unlimited atonement, I believe in Limited atonement.

 

[Hagios17]

mlqurgw

I’m sorry but I don’t believe Satan created anything, not even sin:

“Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.”​

…Romans 4:8​

Read a couple verse back and you find that God imputes righteousness too.

 

[Iollain]

1Cr 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

[Dimitree]

Dimitree

Free will does not refer to normal choice, it refers to non-predetermined and uncreated choice.

I think you are wrong again

The action choice can only exist if you have something to chose from.
Your chosing is in a way predetermined because you have two things that already existed or were created from something that already existed.
But your choice is still free.

I beleive that God put everything that exists so we may learn from it.
And it is His right to give us everything in existance so He may see how we chose.
And so he may teach us of what's good and what's bad.

And so He may trow the evil ones in eternal flames because they are not like the ones that live to learn from life sometimes making wrong choises sometimes not but they are the ones that hated all that God made even themselvs.

Amen.

 

[Easystreet]

Dimitree... and what about all those verse. Are they now all just irrelevant?

The context and genre are important. Also, some terms are used idiomatically. When a statement is made that seems to be emphatic by itself it is then judged by the context, the genre, and all other teaching on the subject in the complete Bible.

False doctrine finds itself in cooking pot when the normal interpretative principles are not applied correctly. Many of a movement are born this way.

Gordon

 

[GreatBigAl]

GOD does not hate. Man Hates. There is a big difference. God is not about hate, and if someone insists otherwise, then they are not in touch with God.

 

[mont974x4]

God does hate, He hates sin, He is also jealous.

Of course, being God, He has every right to demand absolute obedience and worship.

 

[Easystreet]

That was for Jacob... the spamming thing. He doesn't want to contend, bear and reason with me about unlimited atonement, etc. really, so he basically told me to get lost.

Hagios, if I take you and place you in a room and put before you two cups and the taste in both are the same and I tell you to leave cup one [don’t drink form cup one] and drink from cup two - you are free to drink from either regardless of what I told you. That being the case I have allowed you to have this choice to test you and to validate your freedom, limited as it is.

There you are in this place and you need to drink something. Knowing that one is forbidden and the other permitted you have a choice.

Now I permit an adversary to lie to you about the wrong choice. I have made it clear that there are consequences if you drink from the wrong glass and the adversary has told you the opposite.

Now, I am the one who put you were you are because I have the power to do so and I have furnished the two cups to drink from and told you not to drink from one of them.

You decide what to do. Whatever you do it is a free choice with in the boundaries I have established.

By the way I already know what you will do but had I not created you and your environment and given you a choice of which I instantly know your choice you would not be free to do so. Nothing exist unless I permit it. I permit evil to exit but I did not create evil I only allowed for it to exist to test freedom and free choice.

My knowledge of you choosing the bad over the good does not negate your free will to pick one or the other.

But I can say that the situation I created is my plan, my doing, my purpose, my goal, etc. weather you like it or not. And from this because I know you will chose the wrong cup or the right cup I can - based upon my plan - call you elect or lost. In that I know in advance I have that power and privilege. It does not matter. I can say in advance I have created you for good or evil. Foreknowledge did not make it happen. It only knows what the outcome will be. Based on my foreknowledge I can make predictions, like you are elect based upon my foreknowledge. I eternally know all that is and I make predictions that are totally complete, accurate and purposefully done within the scope of the Plan. It is all about the Plan and how it operates. I elect some to heaven and condemn others to hell because of their choice. I pre-determined the plan thus I predetermined the elect and the damned. Which are you are you chosen, elect, or condemned and lost?

 

[Hisbygrace]

God does hate, He hates sin, He is also jealous.

Of course, being God, He has every right to demand absolute obedience and worship.

Yes God does hate sin, but not the sinner........

 

[Hisbygrace]

Hagios, if I take you and place you in a room and put before you two cups and the taste in both are the same and I tell you to leave cup one [don’t drink form cup one] and drink from cup two - you are free to drink from either regardless of what I told you. That being the case I have allowed you to have this choice to test you and to validate your freedom, limited as it is.

There you are in this place and you need to drink something. Knowing that one is forbidden and the other permitted you have a choice.

Now I permit an adversary to lie to you about the wrong choice. I have made it clear that there are consequences if you drink from the wrong glass and the adversary has told you the opposite.

Now, I am the one who put you were you are because I have the power to do so and I have furnished the two cups to drink from and told you not to drink from one of them.

You decide what to do. Whatever you do it is a free choice with in the boundaries I have established.

By the way I already know what you will do but had I not created you and your environment and given you a choice of which I instantly know your choice you would not be free to do so. Nothing exist unless I permit it. I permit evil to exit but I did not create evil I only allowed for it to exist to test freedom and free choice.

My knowledge of you choosing the bad over the good does not negate your free will to pick one or the other.

But I can say that the situation I created is my plan, my doing, my purpose, my goal, etc. weather you like it or not. And from this because I know you will chose the wrong cup or the right cup I can - based upon my plan - call you elect or lost. In that I know in advance I have that power and privilege. It does not matter. I can say in advance I have created you for good or evil. Foreknowledge did not make it happen. It only knows what the outcome will be. Based on my foreknowledge I can make predictions, like you are elect based upon my foreknowledge. I eternally know all that is and I make predictions that are totally complete, accurate and purposefully done within the scope of the Plan. It is all about the Plan and how it operates. I elect some to heaven and condemn others to hell because of their choice. I pre-determined the plan thus I predetermined the elect and the damned. Which are you are you chosen, elect, or condemned and lost?

Very good example thank you for sharing it....

 

[mont974x4]

Absolutely God hates sin and loves the sinner. That's presisely why He sent His Son. Thank You Lord!!

The Bible tells us that He grieves when people reject Him and choose hell.

 

[mlqurgw]

Absolutely God hates sin and loves the sinner. That's presisely why He sent His Son. Thank You Lord!!

The Bible tells us that He grieves when people reject Him and choose hell.

According to Psa. 5:5 God hate all workers of iniquity. That is pretty plain that He hates people not just their sin. All whom are not in Christ, those not given to Him in the Covenant of Grace before the foundation of the world, are seen by Him as workers of iniquity. Sin is what we are by nature it is not a thing that God hates apart from the person. Sin is a matter of the heart and it works it way out by the hands. I commit sin because I am a sinner. Psa. 2 is also pretty plain concerning how god views all who are not found in Christ.

This whole idea of God loving everyone simply isn't Scriptural. Because it has been preached so much rebellious sinners rely on the love of God rather than on the sacrifice of Christ. We grow up hearing that God loves us and we become adults thinking God loves us all the while shaking our fist in God's face. The consequence is that we do not fear God because we belive no matter what we do He loves us and if He loves me He will not send me to Hell.

 

[Hagios17]

“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”​

…John 1:3 ​

Saying that human choice is free, that is to say, free from having been created by God as part of creation, implies that you believe human choices are creations of man. And if man can create things apart from God’s creation of all things, then that makes him a creator and negates the doctrine of creation, that God created all things, as the doctrine of creation implies that all human choice was created by God in the beginning.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

The Bible tells us that He grieves when people reject Him and choose hell.

God said that? Naah, not likely.

 

[Hagios17]

Gordon

I agree, there are specific principles to stick to.

Recently I’ve been looking at some teaching on Hermeneutics, Isagogics, Categories, Exegesis, Etymology:

http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/hicee_rulestc.htm#rules

 

[Hagios17]

GreatBigAl & mont974x4

Would you agree that God has enemies? Most Christians would. And to count, reckon, acknowledge as, etc. one’s enemy is essentially to hate. But because equivocated thought is so influential, Christians have the tendency to call the hate of man, condemned by God as sinful, synonymous with the hate of God, talked of people like me. Yet, the hate of man is not synonymous with the hate of God, as isn’t the wisdom of God synonymous with the wisdom of man, and etc. because a word, even though it is spelt the same, can fall under different definition under certain context. Take the word bat for instance. We have a bat used to hit a ball, and a bat, which enjoys sucking blood.

So by believing God has enemies, you’re implying he hates people, and by holding hate to one definition no matter the context, (i.e. Calling the act of hating an act of sin irrespective of the one hating, just because hating is defined in one instance as being sinful. Thus keeping the name, hate, constant in definition no matter what the context might be.), you succumb to the logical fallacy of equivocation.

My mind was renewed in wonderful scripture:

“The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.”​

…Psalms 5:5​

“I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.”​

…Psalms 139:22​

 

[Hagios17]

GordonSlocum

One thing though… if God imputes sin and righteousness, then free choice becomes a fallacy, for all things good in God’s eyes are righteous and all things evil in God’s eyes are sinful.

“Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.”​

…Romans 4:6-8​

Your example of free will clearly illustrates that the focus of Arminian Gospel is on man, as do many false cults, for it holds that the choice is all up to man, which is what puts me off about Arminianism. So, imagine one of those cups, filled with water, is a faculty holding all choices made from the beginning to the end. Your belief implies that you believe the shell, the cup, is made by God and the choices inside, water, are made by man, as you believe God created almost absolutely everything / absolutely everything except human choice, evil and sin. I believe the shell and the choices inside are made of God, because I believe God made absolutely everything, especially human choice, evil and sin.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

According to Psa. 5:5 God hate all workers of iniquity. That is pretty plain that He hates people not just their sin. All whom are not in Christ, those not given to Him in the Covenant of Grace before the foundation of the world, are seen by Him as workers of iniquity. Sin is what we are by nature it is not a thing that God hates apart from the person. Sin is a matter of the heart and it works it way out by the hands. I commit sin because I am a sinner. Psa. 2 is also pretty plain concerning how god views all who are not found in Christ.

This whole idea of God loving everyone simply isn't Scriptural. Because it has been preached so much rebellious sinners rely on the love of God rather than on the sacrifice of Christ. We grow up hearing that God loves us and we become adults thinking God loves us all the while shaking our fist in God's face. The consequence is that we do not fear God because we belive no matter what we do He loves us and if He loves me He will not send me to Hell.

As it is written, I'll go along with that, though I would add that it is thought and word as well as action (hands):

2 Corinthians 10:3-6, "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled."

To think it is to do it. Words are things.

 

[GreatBigAl]

God does hate, He hates sin, He is also jealous.

Of course, being God, He has every right to demand absolute obedience and worship.

I disagree with that. Man has jealousy and hatred. when man writes about God, man projects certain human attributes into God . this is human nature. man, in his limited mind, cannot truly comprehend the infinity of such an omnipotent diety, so man reduces God to something of a super-human with an ego problem....demanding worship, showing hatred and jealousy. While this is something man can understand, it is more or less metaphysically impossible, as an omnipotent diety would not have the human frailtes of the ego which needs worship and would thus become jealous(insecure) if such were not met....
Man yes, God no.

Also, I gather that you see God as an actual entity, as opposed to an ideal, so we probably are not even on the same page....

 

[Sweet Pea]

Actually, I go to a Batist church where I live. But you're right... I'm not Baptist, and neither are you. I'm a sheep, what are you?

If you're not a Baptist and don't believe what Baptists believes why go to a Baptist church?