A global flood is simply untenable

Ephesians321

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Too many species, too many mouths to feed. And if you're YEC you have over 1,000 species of dinosaurs and therapod dinosaurs to contend with. And frankly we are definitely on their menu. The Ark would need warehouse sized food and water storages. And what about waste disposal? The stinkiest ark to have ever sailed the global sea. Have you ever driven past a cattle farm but imagine that on a larger scale in an enclosed space? I think Christianity especially the Fundies, may need to accept that the flood was a massive regional one and likely a passed down oral tradition that may grew alittle larger each time it was taught and that was eventually became canonized by Moses and the ancient scribes. But furthermore, it fits the pattern of Yahweh's judgment of the nations throughout the Old Testament. In fact, both Jesus and Peter drew comparisons between the Flood and the destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70 itself a regional, national judgment.

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Maria Billingsley

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Too many species, too many mouths to feed. And if you're YEC you have over 1,000 species of dinosaurs and therapod dinosaurs to contend with. And frankly we are definitely on their menu. The Ark would need warehouse sized food and water storages. And what about waste disposal? The stinkiest ark to have ever sailed the global sea. Have you ever driven past a cattle farm but imagine that on a larger scale in an enclosed space? I think Christianity especially the Fundies, may need to accept that the flood was a massive regional one and likely a passed down oral tradition that may grew alittle larger each time it was taught and that was eventually became canonized by Moses and the ancient scribes. But furthermore, it fits the pattern of Yahweh's judgment of the nations throughout the Old Testament. In fact, both Jesus and Peter drew comparisons between the Flood and the destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70 itself a regional, national judgment.

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Consider the over 250 different flood myths from around the world. They have one thing in common, world wide destruction.
Some research perhaps:
  • The Mesopotamian Epic of Gilgamesh, which tells the story of a flood sent by the gods to punish humanity.
  • The Hindu Puranas, which contain several stories of floods, including one that destroyed the world and its inhabitants.
  • The Chinese classic Shan Hai Jing, which describes a flood that covered the world and left only a few survivors.
  • The Aztec Codex Chimalpopoca, which includes a story of a flood that caused the sun to move across the sky and created the different races of mankind.
  • The Maya Popol Vuh, which tells the story of a great flood that destroyed the world and forced the gods to recreate humanity.

Blessings
 
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BobRyan

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Too many species, too many mouths to feed.
no true. A large ark and speciation easily account for all of it. next
And if you're YEC you have over 1,000 species of dinosaurs and therapod dinosaurs to contend with.
If you are a YEC who beileves the actual Bible you have an infinite God who creates the animals from the dirt from scratch. next.
And frankly we are definitely on their menu.
Genesis 1 - prior to the fall of man animals were not created carnivorous -- After the fall of man, animals did not instantly turn carnivorous and preflood man was "giant" as compared to men today according to Genesis 6. next.
The Ark would need warehouse sized food and water storages.
depends on the maturity of the animals that went into it and whether or not an infinite God was capable of putting them into a hibernation state for that period of time with all of his infinite capability -- next.

(Are these even serious objections?)
 
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eleos1954

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Too many species, too many mouths to feed. And if you're YEC you have over 1,000 species of dinosaurs and therapod dinosaurs to contend with. And frankly we are definitely on their menu. The Ark would need warehouse sized food and water storages. And what about waste disposal? The stinkiest ark to have ever sailed the global sea. Have you ever driven past a cattle farm but imagine that on a larger scale in an enclosed space? I think Christianity especially the Fundies, may need to accept that the flood was a massive regional one and likely a passed down oral tradition that may grew alittle larger each time it was taught and that was eventually became canonized by Moses and the ancient scribes. But furthermore, it fits the pattern of Yahweh's judgment of the nations throughout the Old Testament. In fact, both Jesus and Peter drew comparisons between the Flood and the destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70 itself a regional, national judgment.

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God don't always give us all the details we would like to know ... however ... from the details given (specific dimensions of the ark) we accept it was sufficient to accommodate the animals the Lord sent and the ability to take care of them.

God is super natural and you are looking at the natural things (material) we are aware of and from that deducing to your "conclusion".

You can't dismiss the super natural power of God. There are many accounts in the bible that "seem" unbelievable (ie parting of the sea by Moses; Mary conceiving Jesus without being impregnated by a man) but that does not mean that these things didn't happen by God's super natural powers. So, do you discount these as well? Many many super natural occurrences in the Word of God.

Believe God .... or ... believe man (science and/or the things seen.

Science (or what is seen) can not explain the super natural ... so science and others create theories according to material things (of how it could have happened ... or could have not happened) .... such as you just did. We can not and should not try to rationalize or explain the super natural powers of God.

I'm sticking with God. Have no reason not to.
 
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Ephesians321

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It is called using common sense. How did three-toed, two-toed sloths, and Galapagos tortoises cross seas and oceans? But then also recross seas and oceans? How about a global flood never reached them. Many animals can perish outside their environmental and climate requirements. Some need require hot and dry others require humidity and cold, etc, etc. Some require special foods for their survival that is found exclusively within their natural distribution.

Because you can't account for all the impossibilities of all life on earth living today and extinct survived on a single large boat you are forced to read into the text what is not written plainly into text.

It obvious there are mythological elements contained in if the text is indeed speaking of a global flood rather than a regional flood. Plus, the original writers knew nothing about geography, biology, zoology, and even how vast the world actually was that they lived on.
 
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Ephesians321

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I believe in the ark and regional flood indeed. And look at how selective proponents of a global flood are with the Hebrew word, אֶרֶץ‎ [erets #776]

Sweeping world-wide expressions in Genesis 7 are obvious local references elsewhere in the Bible.
A. Genesis: “All flesh died that moved upon the earth [erets #776].” Ge 7:21
Compare: “All the earth [erets #776] came into Egypt to buy grain.” Ge 41:57

B. Genesis 7: “He blotted out every living thing that was upon the face of the ground [erets #776]. Ge 7:23
Compare: Cain, said, “Behold, you have driven me out this day from the face of the earth [erets #776].” Ge 4:14

C. Genesis: “All the high hills under the whole heaven were covered.” Ge 7:19
Compare: “This day will I begin to put the dread of you [Israel]…on the peoples who are under the whole heaven.” Dt 2:25

Below is a visual representation of the various 'senses' carried by אֶרֶץ‎ [erets #776]
dD0Je.png



The sense chart shows the various senses along with their frequency of use in the Hebrew Bible. It is clear that the senses of 'land' (whether in the 'sense' of being a nation or territory) and 'earth' are the most frequent senses implied by this word throughout the Hebrew Bible.
 
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Ephesians321

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Well someone needs to tell Ken Ham then, he is going to be so disappointed:

And what a waste of $100 million of God's money when all it would have taken was to show Ken Ham that he is being too selective in his interpretations of eretz and not using scripture to interprete scripture neither considering the writer's contemporary global view.
 
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Vambram

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Vambram

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Ephesians321

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Neither gave a convincing argument of a global flood. The only reason Christianity is even bothering to contend with science is because their doctrine of sin introducing physical death rather than just spiritual death, a global flood, and bodily Resurrection will be falsified otherwise.

The Bible has two "devils" in the details that are causing widespread doctrinal mischief regarding Bible history and prophecy, and they share the exact same multiple meanings but the English translators share these very same popular doctrines and imposed a singular definition upon them. And it is not even most popular usage of these words in the Bible.

And today's Bible reading audience does not even share the same view of the earth and its true immensity as the original scribes that wrote these passages. In Hebrew it is "eretz" and in Greek it is "ge".

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Ephesians321

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But for some, the literary evidence is not compelling. So, allow me present some scientific evidence: there could not have been a worldwide flood as described in the Bible because there is simply not enough water in the earth's atmospheric system to produce such a flood.

According to data from the U.S. Geological Survey, the amount of water in the earth's atmosphere could not possibly cover the earth.[11] In fact:

One estimate of the volume of water in the atmosphere at any one time is about 3,100 cubic miles (mi3) or 12,900 cubic kilometers (km3). That may sound like a lot, but it is only about 0.001 percent of the total Earth's water volume of about 332,500,000 mi3 (1,385,000,000 km3)

If all of the water in the atmosphere rained down at once, it would only cover the ground to a depth of 2.5 centimeters, about 1 inch.

Additionally, because only 1.7% of the earth's water is stored underground,[12] there is not nearly enough water in groundwater storage beneath the earth's surface to account for the amount of water necessary to flood the entire earth to the extent described in the Bible.

Simply put: there is not enough water in Earth's atmosphere to raise the ocean's levels over an inch, much less to cover Mt. Ararat with water from 40 days of rain. There is simply not that much water in the system.

Thus, in order to even entertain the possibility of a worldwide flood, one has to bypass all laws of physics, exit the realm of science, and enter into the realm of the miraculous, which many biblical literalists are willing to do. It is hypothetically possible that, say, the polar ice caps melted. This could raise the ocean levels beyond the 2.5 centimeters that all the earth's atmospheric water could were it to all rain down, but even then the thaw would only slightly affect the world's coastlines. Additionally, all scientific evidence points to larger polar ice caps in recent history, not smaller.[13]

Other fantastic scenarios could be offered to explain the flood. For instance, some might suggest that a colossal ice-asteroid could have burst into our orbit and melted, bringing with it an unconscionable amount of water into our atmosphere. But, even this desperate scenario poses a major problem for many biblical literalists who attempt to explain or prove the flood scientifically. The Bible says it "rained" and the "springs of the deep" opened, but mentions nothing about an asteroid. Likewise, were water to enter Earth's system, where did it all go? To where did the water recede? Earth's water cycle results in all water residing somewhere on Earth's surface in the form of oceans, ice, and freshwater lakes, beneath Earth's surface in subterranean reservoirs that produce springs and geysers, or in Earth's atmosphere as moisture. So even if water could enter Earth's closed system, where did it go?

Simply put: there is no evidence whatsoever for a worldwide flood. In other words, it's impossible. There is not enough water in the earth's atmospheric system to even come close to covering all of the earth's landmasses.

 
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Ephesians321

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Semper-Fi

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Too many species, too many mouths to feed.
And if you're YEC you have over 1,000 species of
dinosaurs and therapod dinosaurs to contend with.
A lot of people will go right over the second verse in Gen,
Where the earth [became] waste and empty.

And frankly we are definitely on their menu.

Mankind would not have had "dominion" over the dinos.
The dinos easily would have had mankind for lunch.
The dinos where destroyed long before mankind was made.

I think Christianity especially the Fundies,...

I had to look that up.

A: A ‘fundie” is short for fundamentalist. A Christian
fundamentalist basically believes in these five things:

1. The Bible is the inerrant, infallible word of God.
2. Jesus is God.
3. The substitutionary atonement.
4. The virgin birth of Jesus.
5. The resurrection of Jesus
and His second coming at some future time.

Jesus said " I will come again", Do you not believe Him?
More bible verses still about His second visit then His first.
 
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Semper-Fi

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I think Christianity especially the Fundies,
..may need to accept that the flood was a massive regional one and
likely a passed down oral tradition that may grew alittle larger
each time it was taught and that was eventually became canonized
by Moses and the ancient scribes.
Various descriptions of a great, cataclysmic ancient flood are common
around the world. These common ideas point to a common root event.

Why Does Nearly Every Culture Have a Tradition of a Global Flood?

"The only credible way to understand the widespread, similar flood legends is
to recognize that all people living today, even though separated geographically,
linguistically and culturally, have descended from the few real people who survived
a real global flood, on a real boat which eventually landed on a real mountain.
Their descendants now fill the globe, never to forget the real event."

The Epic of Gilgamesh
the Babylonian Ark Tablet
the Greek myth of Deucalion
the Hindu tale of Manu
ancient American flood myths and others.

Many ancient Chinese flood stories also.
Even the Chinese word for ship, or large boat.
This word is made up of three parts:Eight-person-boat.

Noah’s Ark hidden in the ancient Chinese characters

This begs the question: How did all of these completely different peoples,
all over the globe, get the same general—and sometimes very specific—ideas?

Thats where the Tower of Babel and Nimrod come in, and the dispersement of
the common root event of the flood, and the many similar creation stories.

God confounded the languages of the builders, and scattered the people
across the Earth, bringing the memory of the flood/creation with them.

Historian Josephus: Tower of Babel and Nimrod

Sumerian is what is known as a “language isolate”

-

Out of all the flood stories, I will believe as stated in the bible.

“And, behold, I even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth,
to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven;

All flesh with the breath of life in it died, anything breathing under heaven.
This was a worldwide destruction that wiped out everything “under heaven.”

and every thing that is in the earth shall die … every living substance
that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth”

5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher
of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

1 Everything wiped-out “under heaven.”
2 Everything with "the breath of life" died.
3 All flesh destroyed on earth.
4 All Hills under the whole heaven covered.

5The world that was, being overflowed with water, perished.
6 The rainbow covenent given to "all life on earth".
7 Built Tower of Babel so they where not destroyed like forfathers.
8 Flood stories scattered around the earth in different languages.

"These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations,
in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth
after the flood. Genesis 10:32 (KJV) These 16 grandkids of Noah.
 
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rambot

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Consider the over 250 different flood myths from around the world. They have one thing in common, world wide destruction.
Some research perhaps:
  • The Mesopotamian Epic of Gilgamesh, which tells the story of a flood sent by the gods to punish humanity.
  • The Hindu Puranas, which contain several stories of floods, including one that destroyed the world and its inhabitants.
  • The Chinese classic Shan Hai Jing, which describes a flood that covered the world and left only a few survivors.
  • The Aztec Codex Chimalpopoca, which includes a story of a flood that caused the sun to move across the sky and created the different races of mankind.
  • The Maya Popol Vuh, which tells the story of a great flood that destroyed the world and forced the gods to recreate humanity.

Blessings
Yes but of COURSE keeping in mind that the "world" that they knew at the time was prettty small. The Mesopotamians didn't know that China existed. Ancient Mayans would be unaware of Europe.

The Aztec also , only began to exist in the last 2000 years.
 
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Semper-Fi

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In fact, both Jesus and Peter drew comparisons between the Flood and
the destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70 itself a regional, national judgment.
Christ not only confirmed the world wide events of Noah’s day, He said the
same worldwide destruction would come about in our day—only this time in
the form of nuclear world war, he will come to save mankind from extinction.

The Apostle Paul wrote, “By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not
seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house;
by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness
which is by faith”.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were,
so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

This verse has nothing to do with the temple's destruction in 70 a.d.

It is called using common sense.

When Adam and Eve decided to eat the forbidden fruit
they decided to reject revelation imparted by God.

1 First they rejected direct revelation from God.
2 They used there own observations.
3 They used experimentation, and then
4 They used human reasoning.

Precisely the ‘scientific’ method mankind used by modern science.
Precisely the reasoning you use, to get around the sure word of God.

Plus, the original writers knew nothing about geography, biology,
zoology, and even how vast the world actually was that they lived on.

"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

How did Jeremiah know “[T]he host of heaven cannot be numbered.” ?
God asked Job Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Declare, if thou hast understanding. Job 38:4 (KJV)

But for some, the literary evidence is not compelling.

For some the sure word of God is not sure enough.
 
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rambot

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Various descriptions of a great, cataclysmic ancient flood are common
around the world. These common ideas point to a common root event.

Why Does Nearly Every Culture Have a Tradition of a Global Flood?

"The only credible way to understand the widespread, similar flood legends is
to recognize that all people living today, even though separated geographically,
linguistically and culturally, have descended from the few real people who survived
a real global flood, on a real boat which eventually landed on a real mountain.
Their descendants now fill the globe, never to forget the real event."

The Epic of Gilgamesh
the Babylonian Ark Tablet
the Greek myth of Deucalion
the Hindu tale of Manu
ancient American flood myths and others.
The answer to your news article is actually SUPER simple:
If you look at the location, ALL of these "floods" and these ancient civilizations exist near large bodies of water. Over the course of several hundred years, there will be numerous flood events and some will be HUGE floods. When ancient civilizations talk about a "worldwide flood", they are referring to the world that tHEY KNOW only.
 
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Semper-Fi

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So, allow me present some scientific evidence:
there could not have been a worldwide flood as described
in the Bible because there is simply not enough water in
the earth's atmospheric system to produce such a flood.
The atmosphere was not the only source of water for
the world wide flood, according to the Hebrew Bible.

Scientific evidence you produced is useless when
they/you do not even know exactly what the bible says.

"all the fountains of the great deep broken up..
Genesis 7:11, Genesis 8:2

Massive ocean discovered beneath the Earth's crust
containing more water than on the surface



There was plenty enough water to have a world -wide flood.
 
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