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A General Case for Creationism

Morat

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Could the Creationists then claim him as one of their own??

  Nope. Why? Because he knew nothing of evolution. He had no chance to decide it's merits. Therefore, claiming he rejected it or would reject it is impossible.

'Most' is still not 'all'.

  It does include AiG and ICR, though. And since it's "most", I have learned to check all.

So a geologist who claims to have irrefutable proof that the Earth is NOT billions of years old, but in fact only a handful of thousands of years old would have no bearing on the theory of Evolution?

  He would be an expert on geology and the age of the earth, not evolution.

  Claiming he is a "Scientists rejecting Darwinism" is meaningless, as he's a geologist rejecting geology.

   What bearing that would have on evolution would be up to the biologists, not our hypothetical geologist.

Gary Parker is a biologist.

   I vaguely recall mentioning him in my last post. Did you miss it?

Yes it is.  But the reason why I suggested these sites in the first place was because of your claim that most YEC sites 'tend to have the same inaccurate (or deceptive) quotes and fradulent lists'.  If you ever found any errors on these sites, you would have made a believer out of me and maybe even others.

  How about AiG's article on Whale evolution? It was covered in this thread. (To an extent. A conversation with Nick is often like pulling teeth).

   To sum up, AiG has misleading (very misleading) claims about the Ambulocetus fossil. Among them, that it's 50% complete (missing the key pelvis, in fact) when it is missing only the tip of it's snout and part of it's feet, and that it is "out of order" (they claim it's an early whale, when it fact it's about the middle of the sequence).

   Nick, you note, keeps using the AiG depection of the fossil (missing most of it's pieces). At best, they are guilty of the absolute worst scholarship. Given the length of time the piece has been up (both the impact article and the followup), their errors have undoubtably come to their attention, and it is still not fixed. I can't even believe that, because the initial excavatuion (which got the 50% or so of the whale AiG admits exists) was quite clear that the rest of the whale had yet to be excavated.

Okay, you're right.  Would it make you at least rethink some of the assumptions that Evolution is based on and thereby, the whole notion that Evolution is somehow proven or a scientific fact??

  I would rethink anything tied to whatever assumption you falsified.

   Oh, and evolution is a fact and a theory, just like gravity. Good luck trying to erase the fact that dinosaurs used to exist, and don't know, and that humans exist now, and didn't when dinos did.

Other threads have been devoted to this.

  Yes. It's odd what you find. Bible quotes and evolution bashing. Very strange.

And in the end, will this really matter anyway?  Will it sway you in the least?  I'll put forth the effort, but not if it really isn't going to make a difference.

  You claimed you had proof of multiple scientists who converted. All that we require is that the scientists be an authority in evolution. Which requires an education, and some sort of history dealing with evolution. A paper, a research project, something.

   Your geologist, for instance, would fit nicely if he's rejecting modern geology in favor of young earth geology and has at least worked as a geologist.

   If you really want to impress us, find someone who converted to Creationism who isn't a Christian.

 

 
 
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ocean

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Originally posted by Morat
     If you really want to impress us, find someone who converted to Creationism who isn't a Christian.

 

 

That's impossible, because the only people who buy into young-earth Creationism are conservative Christians.
 
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Originally posted by Morat
Originally posted by clue
So a geologist who claims to have irrefutable proof that the Earth is NOT billions of years old, but in fact only a handful of thousands of years old would have no bearing on the theory of Evolution?

  He would be an expert on geology and the age of the earth, not evolution.

  Claiming he is a "Scientists rejecting Darwinism" is meaningless, as he's a geologist rejecting geology.

   What bearing that would have on evolution would be up to the biologists, not our hypothetical geologist.

Originally posted by Morat
If you really want to impress us, find someone who converted to Creationism who isn't a Christian.

Okay.  While I'm working on that, why don't you go find for me an MIT graduate who has worked out the probability of Evolution actually occurring.

No, wait.  He's just a mathematician.  That's not REAL science.  He wouldn't know anything about TRUE science ... oops, I mean true EVOLUTIONARY science.
 
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Originally posted by clue
Okay.  While I'm working on that, why don't you go find for me an MIT graduate who has worked out the probability of Evolution actually occurring. [/B]

Why do we need an MIT graduate to calculate the probability? We've observed evolution occurring in nature, so we already know that the probability is 1.0.
 
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Morat

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Okay.  While I'm working on that, why don't you go find for me an MIT graduate who has worked out the probability of Evolution actually occurring.

  Why would we need an MIT grad? If you want probability, don't you mean a mathematician?

No, wait.  He's just a mathematician.  That's not REAL science.  He wouldn't know anything about TRUE science ... oops, I mean true EVOLUTIONARY science.

   Nice strawman. Did you build it yourself? Mathematics isn't exactly science, of course (it's something else entirely), but my requirement was that the person in question be a scientist in a specific field. I said nothing about "real science".

   As LiveFreeorDie mentioned, we've seen evolution happen. Speciation in the lab and the wild. We've seen natural selection (peppered moths, Darwin's finches), and mutation (nylon digesting bacteria, antibiotic resistance, lower-rates of heart attack in humans). Further, we've confirming evidence in the fossil record, and in the proteins and DNA of living species.

   Since it's happened, the odds are 1.

 
 
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