A few questions...

[ZooMom]

If I understand the rules correctly, I am allowed to post questions here not intended for debate? Yes? If I am mistaken, Moderators, please move this to the appropriate area. Thanks.

I had asked a few questions in another thread and since no-one there seems inclined to answer them, I was wondering if anyone else would like to talk with me about them. I have absolutely no intention of arguing or debating this issue, I really am just interested in sincere, honest reflections from my non-Catholic brothers and sisters. Ok, here goes.


1) How old do Protestants think that Mary was at the time of the Annunciation, and why?

2)How old do you think Joseph was at the time of his engagement to Mary, and why?

3)Do you believe that Mary was Joseph's first wife, and why?

4)Do you believe that the brothers and sisters of Christ mentioned in the Scriptures were younger than Christ, and why?


I really am very interested in your replies.


The Peace of Christ be with you all!

 

[Gabriel]

1) How old do Protestants think that Mary was at the time of the Annunciation, and why?

I am under the impression that she was around 13 or so. I don't know why or when I was taught that.

2)How old do you think Joseph was at the time of his engagement to Mary, and why?

Very old, late 60s maybe. Same reason as above.

3)Do you believe that Mary was Joseph's first wife, and why?

No, again, sadly the same answer as above as to why.

4)Do you believe that the brothers and sisters of Christ mentioned in the Scriptures were younger than Christ, and why?

I never really thought about it. I guess I just assumed they were younger.

I'm sorry I couldn't give better answers. I see where you're going with this also. I wish I had more of an opinion on this so as to be more worth your while, but it doesn't concern me much either way. I never thought that Mary remained a virgin, but if shown biblical proof, I am willing to believe otherwise.

 

[ZooMom]

Thank you so much, Gabriel. Your answers are fine because they are honest. God bless you. I don't think I'm really *going* anywhere at all with it, but I am very curious about the 'other' view and the reasoning behind it. I never had anyone ask me these questions before I became Catholic, but I imagine that my answers would have been much the same as yours, except I would have put Joseph much closer to Mary in age.

I never thought that Mary remained a virgin, but if shown biblical proof, I am willing to believe otherwise.

Does that mean that you have biblical proof for the view that you currently hold? That is not meant to be a challenging question at all. Please, please take any question I ask as humble and sincere. I realize that this could get sour quickly if someone perceives my questions in a bad way.

Thank you again and Peace be with you.

 

[Gabriel]

Does that mean that you have biblical proof for the view that you currently hold?

Only the verse that says that Joseph did not know her until she gave birth to Jesus. But from the Greek laid out in the other similar thread, that may not be an accurate assumption.

 

[ZooMom]

Thanks. So would it be fair to say that your view on Mary's virginity isn't really a belief (as in doctrine), because of the lack of biblical proof, but rather just a personal opinion based on your own assumptions?

Would you mind telling me what denomination you belong to and if they have a specific doctrine regarding this? Thanks.

Peace.

 

[sbbqb7n16]

her viriginity comes from Lukes account where she asks Gabriel,

Luke_1:34 Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"

 

[Gabriel]

Mary's virginity isn't really a belief (as in doctrine), because of the lack of biblical proof, but rather just a personal opinion based on your own assumptions?

Correct.

Would you mind telling me what denomination you belong to and if they have a specific doctrine regarding this?

I am Presbyterian PCA, not to be confused with Presbyterian PCUSA. Very big difference. And, no, we do not have a specific doctrine concerning this.

 

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by sbbqb7n16
her viriginity comes from Lukes account where she asks Gabriel,

Luke_1:34 Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"

We are referring to the belief that she remained a virgin after Jesus' birth.

 

[ZooMom]

Thanks, Gabriel , I really do appreciate your answers. And that I have managed to ask without offending you. (I didn't, did I?)


Hi, sbbqb7n16. Thank you for the verse. I think we all, Catholic and non-Catholic, agree on the fact of Mary's virginity before and during her pregnancy. Would you mind answering the questions in the OP? Just give your honest thoughts with whatever references support your view. I'd really like to see your replies.

 

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by ZooMom
Thanks, Gabriel , I really do appreciate your answers. And that I have managed to ask without offending you. (I didn't, did I?)

You didn't offend me. Don't be so timid. We won't bite you.

 

[ZooMom]

Originally posted by Gabriel
You didn't offend me. Don't be so timid. We won't bite you.

Whew! Well, that's a relief.

Seriously, I just really didn't want to give anyone cause to take exception to my questions, and flat type is such a miserable medium for communicating effectively because almost any attitude or nuance can be read into what you type. Thank goodness for smilies.

 

[hugoguttman]

Hi zoomom:

1) How old do Protestants think that Mary was at the time of the Annunciation, and why?

2)How old do you think Joseph was at the time of his engagement to Mary, and why?

3)Do you believe that Mary was Joseph's first wife, and why?

4)Do you believe that the brothers and sisters of Christ mentioned in the Scriptures were younger than Christ, and why?

1.- I dont know and daring to say some age... I will be speculating. I think she was at the perfect age to have children.
2.- I dont know, but sure he had a similar age than Maria.
3.- I dont know and I dont know why... What a questions!!! hahahahahahaha.
4.-I think this is the only question I can answer some accurate. 
The brothers and sisters of Jesus were younger than Him as Jesus was the first son of Maria, as she was virgin when she conceived our Lord. And the Scripture says Joseph DID NOT KNOW HER until and after Jesus´ birth.
Sorry for not being so helpful on this...
Pax.
Hugo.

 

[ZooMom]

Hi, hugo. Thank you for answering! Do you mind if I ask a few more questions with regards to your answers?

2.- I dont know, but sure he had a similar age than Maria.

How are you sure that his age was similar to Mary's? Is there something that gives you reason to believe that it was, or is it something that you've just always assumed?

4.-I think this is the only question I can answer some accurate.
The brothers and sisters of Jesus were younger than Him as Jesus was the first son of Maria, as she was virgin when she conceived our Lord. And the Scripture says Joseph DID NOT KNOW HER until and after Jesus´ birth.

Why do you think that the brothers and sisters of Jesus were Mary's children at all? I agree that if they were Mary's children that they would have to be younger than Christ, so what I am asking is do you have a reference for them being younger or for them being Mary's children.

Thanks again for answering and the Peace of Christ be with you.

 

[hugoguttman]

Zoomom:

How are you sure that his age was similar to Mary's? Is there something that gives you reason to believe that it was, or is it something that you've just always assumed?

mmmmm... it´s curious, that we read the Bible so many times and never ask ourselves about this kind of things. How old were Joseph...? How old were Maria...? What about the adolecent years of Jesus...? I think my answer to your new question is that I have just always assumed it. I can imagine the situation which I dont have any further reference as my mind tells me about. I can imagine Maria and Joseph like a couple of two young guys... I can not imagine Joseph older enough to be Maria´s father age... It´s just as my mind tells me about...

Why do you think that the brothers and sisters of Jesus were Mary's children at all? I agree that if they were Mary's children that they would have to be younger than Christ, so what I am asking is do you have a reference for them being younger or for them being Mary's children.

Well, if I consider that Jesus´brothers and sisters are Maria´s sons, they are younger than Jesus. Now, the Bible does not mention anything about any other Joseph´s marriages. But... maybe taking what is written in Mathew 1:19-20 gives me an idea about Joseph and I take it as a good man that could take me to an ASSUMPTION... He had never been married...
Well... those are my answers... very poor but...
Now, are you reading any J.J. Benitez book or something? His books, named Trojan Horse are some kind of very well speculative books. I have readed only one... the first. But there have been others named TH II, TH III and so... and he tries to speculate, with a touch of novel, those obscure moments that Bible does not talk about...
Pax.
Mbote.

 

[Dewjunkie]

Originally posted by ZooMom
1) How old do Protestants think that Mary was at the time of the Annunciation, and why?

Approx. 13, as this was the common age for young women to be betrothed in that culture at that time.   

2)How old do you think Joseph was at the time of his engagement to Mary, and why?

Approx. 30, as this was the age that Jewish men left home to begin their own lives.  Because the Bible doesn't portray Joseph as an established man, and he was able to flee to Bethlehem without pulling any roots, it is unlikely he was much older than this.   

3)Do you believe that Mary was Joseph's first wife, and why?

Yes, mainly because of the above support, but also because historians tend to believe that subsequent marriages in that time were to older women.  The young virgin was historically the first.   

4)Do you believe that the brothers and sisters of Christ mentioned in the Scriptures were younger than Christ, and why?

Yes, for the reasons stated above, they would have to be, regardless of maternal line.
 

 

[4Jesus]

Hello ZooMom ,

Your first three questions would probably only yield speculative answers.

I believe Jesus had younger siblings only because Matthew states that: 

And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. Matthew 1:25

Clearly Joseph and Mary did not share a conjugal bed til after Jesus was born.

 

[ZooMom]

Thanks, hugo! Not poor answers at all. And no, I have not heard of the books you referenced, but I will try to find them if I can.

 

[ZooMom]

Originally posted by Dewjunkie
Approx. 13, as this was the common age for young women to be betrothed in that culture at that time.   

Thanks! I'm no historian, so could you post a reference for this so that I may look for myself?

Approx. 30, as this was the age that Jewish men left home to begin their own lives.  Because the Bible doesn't portray Joseph as an established man, and he was able to flee to Bethlehem without pulling any roots, it is unlikely he was much older than this.   

Again, is there a reference for the age information? I also was under the impression that Joseph was established as a carpenter before his engagement to Mary and that they went to Bethlehem for the census?

Yes, mainly because of the above support, but also because historians tend to believe that subsequent marriages in that time were to older women.  The young virgin was historically the first.   

Reference? I really would like to read something about this.

Yes, for the reasons stated above, they would have to be, regardless of maternal line.
 

Well, that's a new thought! I have never heard it considered that Joseph may have had wives *after* Mary.

Thanks and Peace be with you!

 

[ZooMom]

Originally posted by 4Jesus
Hello ZooMom ,

Your first three questions would probably only yield speculative answers.

I believe Jesus had younger siblings only because Matthew states that: 

Clearly Joseph and Mary did not share a conjugal bed til after Jesus was born.

Hi, 4Jesus , and thanks for answering! The meaning of 'until' is being debated in the other thread in the debate forum. Have you seen it? What do you think?

Peace be with you.

 

[linda4jesus]

Originally posted by ZooMom

1) How old do Protestants think that Mary was at the time of the Annunciation, and why?

Mary was pledged to marry Joseph, she was probably between the age 13-15.

Matthew 1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: his mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.

2)How old do you think Joseph was at the time of his engagement to Mary, and why?

Joseph was older, my 'guess' around 25 or so.

Matthew 1: 9 Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.

3)Do you believe that Mary was Joseph's first wife, and why?

I believe that Mary was Joseph's first and only wife. He was able to uproot his family with no ties to leave and go to Egypt. Also, there is no reference to 'other' wives in the Word. As we have seen in the OT and NT, if there are other wives, they are referenced.....None are referenced for Joseph except Mary.

4)Do you believe that the brothers and sisters of Christ mentioned in the Scriptures were younger than Christ, and why?

In Matthew 1:24 we are told that Joseph 'had no union with Mary until she gave birth to a son'.

In Matthew 12:46-50, Jesus was speaking to a crowd when his mother and brothers came to speak to him. As stated below....the apostles were with him therefore can not be considered the brothers he was referring to.

Matthew 1:24 When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

Matthew 12: 46-50 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.

Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?"

Pointing to his disciples

he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."