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We will have the new nature desiring to stay in him!I don't disagree...I also don't believe we are forced to remain in Christ... Just too many verses saying otherwise.
Jesus stated that NONE can take us out of the father's Hand, and Jesus stated will be losing NONE will get lost once saved by Him!If you lose your faith does that mean you were not forever justified? Paul said it's God that justifies, who can condemn? No one!
These are promises for believers. Not for those who once believed. If you become a apostate, that's not because God let go of you, it's because you willingly chose to reject his justification.
No one and nothing on this earth can remove us from Christ's love, except for ourselves.
Jesus was speaking to Jews whose hearts are not right with God. They are not faithful Jews and do not know the Father.Indeed. . .and what is the context and its affect here?
Jesus explains precisely who those are inJesus was speaking to Jews whose hearts are not right with God. They are not faithful Jews and do not know the Father.
Since they are not willing to do the Father’s will they could not discern the truth of Christ’s words (John 7:17). Those who know the Father will recognize the truth of Christ’s words and be “drawn” to Him (6:44, 45, cf. John 3:21).
They are given to the Son and come as the result of being enabled (6:65)They will be given to the Son and come to faith in Him as a result (6:37).
Jesus states it as to them alone who have been enabled to come to the Son.To them alone has the Father granted access to the Son (6:65).
The passage deals with those who believe and come only because they are enabled to do so. (John 6:65)The passage has to do with the Father giving the faithful Jews to their long-awaited Messiah.
There is no promise given here, there is only statement of spiritual fact: only those he enables can come.The promise given
There is no promise here of anything, there is only statement of spiritual fact.is only for those who are presently and continually “eating”, “drinking”, “believing”, “coming”, “listening”, “following”, and “beholding.”
There is no promise here for those who stop believing and no guarantee that those who begin to believe will inevitably remain in the faith.
The "all" are those whom he has enabled and will come--without exception, and none of the all shall he lose (John 6:39)The “all that” in verse 39 is the sum total of believers.
A verse from a chapter where many people quit following Jesus.
"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
These are promises for those who believe not ones who used to believe.
Calvin didn’t teach OSAS as it is usually taught. He believed that God chose people, and would not go back on that. But he was aware that we don’t know for sure who is chosen, though he thought people should generally feel assurance.
I think OSAS implies that if you show the usual evidence of salvation and fall away, you will still end up accepted. Calvin did not agree. He knew that some people fell away for real. He thought that those people weren’t chosen by God, since God would make sure that his people persevered.
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. - John 8:1-11
In the Protestant Reformation we have fingers pointed at the Catholics... However, at times, the reformation became worse than the Catholic times before them. The Protestants would think that because they arrived at some doctrinal truth they were superior to others,. Martin Luther and John Calvin turned out to be terrible men in their old age. And to quote...
"Pure devilry is urging on the peasants. Therefore let all who are able, mow them down, slaughter and stab them, openly or in secret, and remember that there is nothing more poisonous, noxious and utterly devilish than a rebel. You must kill him as you would a mad dog " -Martin Luther
"Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them makes himself an accomplice in their crime and guilty as they are. There is no question here of man's authority; it is God who speaks, and clear it is what law he will have kept in the church, even to the end of the world. Wherefore does he demand of us a so extreme severity, if not to show us that due honor is not paid him, so long as we set not his service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin, nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory." - John Calvin, after the toasting of Michael Servetus
In which, yes, things like the Catholic inquisition were bad, however, at times, Protestants were no better. This... Though... Is not to down denominations such as the Lutherans. My dad goes to a Lutheran church and the preacher there is an old guy, chaplain at a university, and very saintly in his life. Whenever I visit dad's Lutheran church I take time to thank the guy for his good service in the community. And this is not to say my denomination is any better as our preachers can be just as bad. I went to a Methodist camp meeting and asked an old timer what denomination he was, and he sneered at me and said, "Methodist, what else is there?"
The salvation of the old Saint of the Wilderness Robert Sheffey came at a revival meeting at an old store building. There were drunks there who would pelt the preacher with corn cobs, but Robert and a few others went up front to make their profession of faith in Christ. Robert wanted to defend the meeting, but the preacher would not hear to it, and maintained the furtherance of the gospel must be non-violent. Which was the correct thing to do!
"I will certainly do my best to see that no rowdy crowd comes up here again and bothers you even if I have to knock them down the stairs with this poker." - Robert Sheffey
"That is not the way of the Savior, my young brother. You do want to be more like Him?" -asked the preacher
"Yes." - Replied Robert
"Then he who would be more like the Christ must study the Bible and learn of His life and works. Imitate Him in all your thoughts and deeds. You are not so foolish as to think that that will come easy?"- The preacher from the readings of "The Saint of the Wilderness" by Jess Carr
And Robert Sheffey would keep his non-violent humility with him all his days...
Jesus indeed was referring to all who were ever to get saved in this passage!Jesus explains precisely who those are in
John 6:65: "No one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
They are given to the Son and come as the result of being enabled (6:65)
Jesus states it as to them alone who have been enabled to come to the Son.
The passage deals with those who believe and come only because they are enabled to do so. (John 6:65)
The rest of the Jews whom he did not enable rejected him and the gospel.
There is no promise given here, there is only statement of spiritual fact: only those he enables can come.
There is no promise here of anything, there is only statement of spiritual fact.
And that fact is that he will lose none of those whom the Father has enabled and given to him.
(John 6:39)
The "all" are those whom he has enabled and will come--without exception, and none of the all shall he lose (John 6:39)
And that turned out to be a few Jews (the rest having rejected him and being cut off the one olive tree of God's people--Romans 11:17-19) and a whole lot of Gentiles.
I quoted the wrong post, apologies. The point was to make that there have been many, especially John Calvin, who have thought they arrived at some kind of doctrinal superiority, but could turn out to be cruel men in their old age.I agree with your post entirely and greatly admire the sentiment you express therein.
However I am confused, forgive me, about just one thing: what does that have to do with my post?
John Calvin was not a cruel man, and he merely thought that he was teaching what the bible does!I quoted the wrong post, apologies. The point was to make that their have been many, especially John Calvin, who have thought they arrived at some kind of doctrinal superiority, but could turn out to be cruel men in their old age.
Here you have, I assume unintentionally, given us a trick question.If you happen to answer yes to this question, my next question would be.... under this theological system, would you agree there is no sure way you could have absolute assurance of anything you believe being true? In other words, there is no way of knowing the truth
Why not both.John Calvin was not a cruel man, and he merely thought that he was teaching what the bible does!
John Calvin was not a cruel man, and he merely thought that he was teaching what the bible does!
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