A few questions for Protestants

[timothyu]

So, you should have no problem showing us a verse from Scripture where it say's these exact words.

I've given the verses that talk of the Gospel of the Kingdom which Jesus said was his only Gospel, and about the separation of wills between the Kingdom and man's world, So if these things remain parables to you perhaps the world still blinds. The Bible front to back is about the clash of man's will with God's , and the stories within show repeatedly how and why man fails. It also in Jesus' teachings shows the way out. You want cherry picked scripture? You'd be better off getting the whole story from Jesus than using the book to defend some church that will be obliterated upon the Kings return.

 

[Buzzard3]

Hmm..seems like he wasn't talking about reading.
Christ does not say that the Spirit will immediately put the minds of believers into a state of spiritual perfection. He didn't say the Spirit will totally replace a person's thoughts or opinions. We still are in the flesh as well as the Spirit.

Who said anything about the HS bringing "spiritual perfection" and "totally replac(ing) a person's thought's or opinions"?

When Jesus said the HS would reveal "all truth" in that verse, are you saying he didn't really mean it? ... that the HS cannot reveal "all truth" to us due to our flawed human nature? If so, the Prophets and the Scriptures cannot be trusted.

 

[renniks]

Then why did you post that Facebook site? Wow!

Because you asked.

 

[renniks]

Maybe because Jesus said it mattered, we are members of His Church.



Of?



And that church would be?



You mean a church that agrees with what you believe? Again, what church might that be?

You know renniks, I find it very odd that many Protestants and non-denominational believers like yourself, have such a hard time coming right out and say or name what specific church or sect is it they actually are members of. I don't have a problem at letting you know at all. I belong to the Church founded by Jesus Christ, the Catholic Church, of the Latin Rite! St. Vincent de Paul parish actually, on the west coast of the U.S.

Have a Blessed Evening

Lol. Have you not been following along? Because I just posted the denomination I attend. I'm not in the habit of posting more personal information on the internet.

 

[renniks]

Because you asked.

Including your own?

Also, who's interpretations do you think are better than others? And if you believe some interpretations are better than others, how would you know these interpretations are without error? By who's or what authority could you turn to find out? Your pastor? These people themselves? I mean seriously, who's or what authority?

The only authority is God. We turn to his Word, not to some tradition.
How would I know any interpretation is without error? We believe the original scripture is without errors in doctrine, beyond that, any interpretation can have mistakes, but I have seen nothing in any of the interpretations I've read that would affect the crucial doctrines.

 

[renniks]

Who said anything about the HS bringing "spiritual perfection" and "totally replac(ing) a person's thought's or opinions"?

When Jesus said the HS would reveal "all truth" in that verse, are you saying he didn't really mean it? ... that the HS cannot reveal "all truth" to us due to our flawed human nature? If so, the Prophets and the Scriptures cannot be trusted.

No, what that means is we can't be trusted to ever get it perfect.

 

[Buzzard3]

The only authority is God. We turn to his Word, not to some tradition.

The only authority is God. We turn to his Word, not to some tradition.
How would I know any interpretation is without error? We believe the original scripture is without errors in doctrine, beyond that, any interpretation can have mistakes, but I have seen nothing in any of the interpretations I've read that would affect the crucial doctrines.

Ephesians 4 says otherwise (please read carefully):

11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipment of the saints, for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every joint with which it is supplied, when each part is working properly, makes bodily growth and upbuilds itself in love.

How would I know any interpretation is without error?

Eph 4 says Christ gave us the Church to provide infallible doctrine.

 

[Buzzard3]

No, what that means is we can't be trusted to ever get it perfect.

The Prophets were fallible men, but God used them to perfectly speak his infallible word. The various writers of the books of the Bible were fallible men, but God used them to perfectly write his infallible word.

Catholics belief that in the same way, God uses the Pope (a fallible man) to perfectly declare God's infallble doctrine. This process began with Peter, when Jesus gave him the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" (Matt 16:18-19).

 

[Albion]

His argument wasn't over scripture but false authority which did not follow it, was it not?

Yes and no, but the controversy began with the l fund-raising campaign that's commonly called the "sale of indulgences."

So to that extent--and with the Church's response--it was about authority. But not surprisingly, when the initial controversy morphed into a full scale break, people began to be drawn to Luther and his associates, and he was led into assessing a much wider range of Catholic doctrines.

 

[Albion]

Ha-ha..... if you think the Vatican is rolling in the dough, you are highly mistaken! Sheesh,,, some people!

You're mistaken. Of course she spends a lot, so she's always in need of more, but all the property she has acquired over the centuries and the banking operations, etc. of the Vatican that few Catholics ever think of or even know about paint a much different picture than the one you are trying to sell.

 

[renniks]

Ephesians 4 says otherwise (please read carefully):

11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipment of the saints, for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every joint with which it is supplied, when each part is working properly, makes bodily growth and upbuilds itself in love.

Eph 4 says Christ gave us the Church to provide infallible doctrine.

That's not what it says at all.

 

[renniks]

Catholics belief that in the same way, God uses the Pope (a fallible man) to perfectly declare God's infallble doctrine.

That's impossible since popes down through the ages have disagreed on just about everything.

 

[timothyu]

Yes and no, but the controversy began with the l fund-raising campaign that's commonly called the "sale of indulgences."

Well I suppose someone had to pay for armies, thought police, the prolonged building of a Latin Vatican, not to mention supporting two different Popes at the same time. God's work don't come cheap.

 

[timothyu]

That's impossible since popes down through the ages have disagreed on just about everything.

Agree, but then again unlike the rabbis of Jesus' day where it was common to argue in the synagogues over scripture and matters of law, I would bet Popes were more political than spiritual in nature. Age old problem for Gentiles. Build an institution first then justify it through doctrines instead of taking scripture and building a way of life around it as the Jews had done.

 

[concretecamper]

That's impossible since popes down through the ages have disagreed on just about everything.

some like beef, others seafood. You are observant.

 

[YeshuaFan]

such as?

Immaculate conception of Mary and her bodily assumption to name 2!

 

[Buzzard3]

That's impossible since popes down through the ages have disagreed on just about everything.

Name one instance of a Pope opposing another Pope's infallible declaration.

 

[Buzzard3]

That's not what it says at all.

What does it say?

 

[pescador]

Name one instance of a Pope opposing another Pope's infallible declaration.

I don't know about a Pope's infallible declaration, as I don't think that Popes are infallible -- ever. Two concepts immediately come to mind: the crusades and the inquisition. Does the Pope still believe in these activities?

 

[pescador]

The Prophets were fallible men, but God used them to perfectly speak his infallible word. The various writers of the books of the Bible were fallible men, but God used them to perfectly write his infallible word.

Catholics belief that in the same way, God uses the Pope (a fallible man) to perfectly declare God's infallble doctrine. This process began with Peter, when Jesus gave him the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" (Matt 16:18-19).

Was that before or after Jesus called Peter "Satan"?