a few more ???

[1970jennifer]

Hi y'all!
I just have a few more questions

First, I was wondering if anyone would be willing to be sort of a mentor for me. I don't really want to keep posting here everytime I have a question because seriously I would be here 10 times per day! It would be my first choice to stay Eastern Orthodox so maybe I should post this request there but I didn't really see an area for it. anyway, Christianity is Christianity, isn't it? You don't have to believe everything a denom teaches, do you?

Another quesion is that I was wondering if mainstream Christianity teaches that we are worthless. Eastern Orthodox, where my family is from, teaches that we are worthless and I'm not loving this idea at all! Humility I do believe is a key trait we must have, being humble before God, you gotta be humble. But my Eastern Orthodox books are very clear about how lowly and horrible we are...is this a teaching?

I understand most people know nothing about Eastern Orthodox so I'm just asking for Christan perspectives.

Oh and about praying to saints...if we can ask everyday sinners like one another to pray for us, why can't we ask the saints in Heavan to pray for us?

Lastly, I need books. I figured out Christianity through Mere Christianity. Please recommend some books for me!

Many thanks! Invaluable, really. I love this whole forum.
Jen

 

[fm107]

Hi Jennifer,

May I first ask you a question. What matters most? Clinging to your Eastern Orthodox upbringing(?) which to be honest, it sounds like you don't have a good understanding of or would you prefer to take an unbias approach to finding out the truth? Not mainstream christianity because that too isn't fully correct. But looking at the bible and making that your bases for your beliefs. What I'm getting at is please take an unbias approach in your learning and then you will be able to see clearly as to which denomination is most in line with God's word. Sound fair enough to you? If so, I will be happy to answer the tonnes of questions you have and I will do so with scripture.

...................................

First question, does mainstream christianity teach us if we are worthless? Well let's forget what is mainsteam and look at what the bible says...

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

So looking at the above verse, we can see God values his creation and loves man so much that he sent his one and only son to die in his place.

However, despite this being the case, we must recognise what we are before a Holy God, we are sinners and rebels - we have not obeyed God's laws. Recognising that we are sinners and worthy of Hell is one of the first steps in becoming a Christian. Recognising your sin before God is an essential first step.

...................................

Do you know that the bible says every born-again believer in God is a Saint? Saints aren't ordained - that isn't biblical.

Did you ever notice that the letters of the apostle Paul are addressed to the saints? Surely he did not write to the saints in heaven. Here is an example:

Ephesians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus.

All believers are "sanctified - i.e. made saints - through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10).

Praying to a saint (another christian) is idolatry and is a sin. You will not find one verse in the bible to support that.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing


Jesus Christ is our mediator and it is through him we pray!


1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

There are loads of verses in the bible that tell is to pray to God. Not once are we told to pray to a dead person.

..................................

The only book I would recommend to you is the bible. But before you read it, humbly pray to God and ask him to give you understanding .

I hope you will find these answers helpful, I'm sure they are contradictory to what you know but its all there in the bible - read it if you don't believe me. Man perverts the truth but God's word stands forever.

God bless!

 

[Mediaeval]

Book recommendation:
The Cost of Discipleship and Life Together by Dietrich Bonhoeffer

 

[Shulamite7]

No, we are not worthless. Infact God considers us as being a royal priesthood. We are both royalty and priestly- we are given the ability to minister to others. Now isn't that something!

Why do you want to pray to saints when someone much, much more higher and powerful than saints is our mediator. He is the mediator between man and God. The dead can't hear us and answer us and if someone said their prayers have been answered by a saint or that a dead saint has appeared to them, then that is a demon, a deceiving spirit. Don't get into those things.

I don't read that many christian books other than the Holy Bible. But recently I've been listening to this woman on youtube. She is called 278pikelk. She receives daily messages from the Lord and I find them to be very helpful and encouraging. Please go and listen to her messages.

 

[Radagast]

First, I was wondering if anyone would be willing to be sort of a mentor for me. I don't really want to keep posting here everytime I have a question because seriously I would be here 10 times per day!

Better keep posting. Then you'll see what's generally agreed on, and what's controversial. There's a lot of people here that I wouldn't trust to be mentors. I wouldn't even trust me.

The EO area is here, btw (I'm not EO, but I know many people who are).

Another quesion is that I was wondering if mainstream Christianity teaches that we are worthless. Eastern Orthodox, where my family is from, teaches that we are worthless

Really? Christianity teaches that we are born utterly sinful, but valuable enough for Christ to die for us. And, in Christ, we are a royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9), as Shulamite7 says.

why can't we ask the saints in Heavan to pray for us?

Why not pray directly to God? Anyone who says God is too busy or that He doesn't care is wrong.

Lastly, I need books. I figured out Christianity through Mere Christianity.

Most books by C S Lewis are good. I'd read The Screwtape Letters next. And, of course, the Bible.

The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer (mentioned by Mediaeval) has a good reputation.

On the more theological side, there's this. But normally I'd recommend books in response to specific questions.

I'd avoid anything on YouTube, though, unless it's from sensible ministers of sensible churches. I'd really, really, really avoid anyone who claims to get "daily messages from the Lord."

 

[Peripatetic]

I am saddened when some so-called Christian groups constantly call us all worthless. Jesus treated everyone - including the lowest sinners - with dignity, tenderness, and love. And He told three parables in a row (lost sheep, lost coin, lost son) to show us just how much God values each and every one of us.

 

[Knee V]

We are not worthless. Each of us should consider our own selves to be the worst of sinners, but we are not worthless. God doesn't make worthless things, nor does he bother suffering and dying for anything that is worthless.

 

[Adaephon]

We are not worthless. Each of us should consider our own selves to be the worst of sinners, but we are not worthless. God doesn't make worthless things, nor does he bother suffering and dying for anything that is worthless.

^^this.

Seriously talk to your priest and don't just assume the church says we are worthless just because you've found some weird hyperbolic book. I've never, ever heard any priest or bishop ever do or say anything that could even remotely imply that we are worthless.

 

[Adaephon]

Oh and about praying to saints...if we can ask everyday sinners like one another to pray for us, why can't we ask the saints in Heavan to pray for us?

Lastly, I need books. I figured out Christianity through Mere Christianity. Please recommend some books for me!

Many thanks! Invaluable, really. I love this whole forum.
Jen

Of course you can pray to the saints! Just as you describe it. It is a perfectly orthodox practice, and embraced by the majority of Christians today.

Another good book would be The Orthodox Way by Metropolitan Kallistos. The Orthodox Church by the same author. The Way of a Pilgrim. The Guru, the Young Man and Elder Paisios.

 

[Nilla]

Mod Hat On​

​

Just wanted to ask you all to be careful so you don't accidently violate this rule:

Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian.

Full set of rules​

Mod Hat Off​

 

[Alive_Again]

You are created in the image and likeness of God Himself. Not even the angels are like us.

We are who we are by virtue of us being "in Christ". We're submitted and believing in Him, we are joined as one spirit, one new man in Him. God sees us as He sees Jesus. Hard to believe, but it's important to see yourself as a member of God's family of great value and beauty to God.

Here's a few scriptures I have collected that speak of who we are in Christ... (It's a good idea to build these into your spirit by speaking them forth and agreeing with them. It will begin to take the mindset of the "false humility" religion builds into us and replace it with Gospel truth. False humility is a "low road". Pride is a "high road". Agreeing with the revelation of God is always the highway of our God.

“Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he.”
Matt 11:11

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
2 Cor 5:17

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.”
1 Peter 2:9-10

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."
1 Peter 2:5

“Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it you.”
John 15:16

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."
Eph 2:19-22

"But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit."
1 Cor 6:17

”Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”
1 Cor 3:16-17

"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
2 Cor 6:16

"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world."

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together."
Romans 8:15-17

"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."
Gal 4:6-7

"But ye are come unto Mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the Heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in Heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."
Heb 12:22-24

"And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father; to Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen"
Rev 1:6

”Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.”
Gal 4:28

“Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.”
Gal 4:30-31

“But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;”
Eph 2:13-15

"For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."
2 Cor 5:21

“Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Romans 6:11

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
Gal 3:28

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
Romans 8:1-2

“Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.”
2 Tim 2:1

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”
Phil 2:5-8

“And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the Law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death;”
Phil 3:9-10

As far as praying to saints, they cannot hear everyone's prayer like the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit can. Also, God has already given us everything to do with life and godliness. You can receive it from God directly by virtue of your covenant with God. God is willing!