A dying church.

[Stanfi]

I am just looking for some comments, and thought about this situation.

I serve as an officer in my local church. In this church we have two families, let's call them family A and family B.

About 7 years ago, A member of family A, had a agrument with family B. Since then there have been several things to enlarge the sepeartion between these two families.

About 2 years ago, we had a young preacher in our church, who became our pastor. He had become friends with Family A, and A member of family A was an elder in our church.

Family B said that our pastor and elder should not be friends. They absoultely refused to support our pastor, and actually said a lot of bad things about him in the communitiy. Family B also used to be friends with the pastor at one point.

During the course of the last two years, there has been a huge division in our church. The bulk of the church loved the pastor, but this one family, and those they could get to side with them, made the pastor's life miserable.

Family B seems blinded with pride, they are not willing to resolve the differences with family A. At one point they approached the pastor wanting him to remove a member of family A from the church.

There is a huge sense of jealousy in family B.

About 2 weeks ago the pastor resigned. The divided church was just becoming more the he could bare. The night he quit most were crying, but family B was happy. It was so weird.

Now many are leaving the church. In the past year, half of our congration has left. The church is dying.

During this, I keep thinking that the church was like Judah in the Old Testmant, God had sent his prohpet (our pastor) and the people killed him.

One member of Family B was recently quoted as saying that "Her and her husband do not sin". I think 1 john1:8 says something about this?!

What can be done other than pray?

 

[Imagsusman]

Put a sign on the front door now for next sunday but dont tell anyone...Sign should read "closed due to family schism...Please pray...Will be open next sunday for repentence and restoration"...Then find a good hell-fire preacher who will preach on Hebrews 12:11-15..1 Corinthians 3...Collosians 3:15.... the next Sunday...Dont be afraid to offend the offenders...Judgement must first begin at the house of God!!...Its high time pastors stop coddeling the tares, and quit worrying about tithes!!

 

[foundationguy]

The elders (except perhaps the one from family A) should confront the troublesome family. It is ok to ask them not to attend (defellowship as some woudl call it), just keep in mind, that step is always to be taken with the hopes of restoration and that the divisive person or persons will come around, but if not, the leadership of the church has a responsibility to discipline the members. That responsibility is not license for abuse, but there is Scriptural backing for such a step if the people refuse to repent if they are clearly violating Scriptural mandates.

 

[Stanfi]

More of the problem is that at this point, the split has created a huge divide in the entire church, and to be honest, both sides are at fault to some degree..

So, what do you do, kick everyone out? At this point half of the church has already left.

 

[foundationguy]

That might be an option. I have known churches that just completely shut down and started over after a few months. Sometimes it's easier to give birth than it is to raise the dead.

 

[Imagsusman]

Thats why I feel closing for one week will give hard hearts an opportunity to imagine a closed church..Might just be fertile ground for the Spirit to move upon the hard hearts..

 

[aperson1234]

You seem to be able to see the right and wrong in both situations... is that not correct?

Mrstace... Do you sense opportunity?

I see opportunity here. There's a door open for you to point out some things. I'd say this is a perfect opportunity to stand up and be more active in your church. You can see the right and wrong in both sides, and you sense the destruction that has happened to the church. This looks like a calling to speak to the congregation!

Dig into the Bible about this. Galations 5:20 relates dissension and faction as those evil fruits of the sinful nature. Romans 3:23, 5:12 relate that all are fallen. Psalm 51:3 as well. Consider also God's response to Jonah's anger in Jonah 4 - relate the church as being the vine and Jonah as the people. 1st and 2nd Corinthians discusses and firmly points out the folly and err of faction and dissension.

Be careful to leave it on a positive note, and not to point fingers or take sides. Be careful to not dis-include yourself. Draw people to the middle ground, where God is the centerpiece of the greatest argument of all - that God is savior and Lord, and offers salvation and loves unconditionally.

Also, don't trust in your human ability. Pray about it, and do find people who you trust and bounce this idea off with those trusted people. As Proverbs 15:22 reads, "Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed."

 

[Stanfi]

It's odd that you should say this, because this is what I did a week ago. God gave me a message and I delivered it.

The problem is so many are so blinded by pride, that they don't listen to the Word. It's like they feel it don't apply to them.

One actually stated that they "did not sin"!

My personal belief is that God will speak to this stiffnecked people, through the teachers and preachers, and anyone else he can use. If they continue not to obey, He will break them and bring pain into their lives.. Pain is the passion that fuels change.

You seem to be able to see the right and wrong in both situations... is that not correct?

Mrstace... Do you sense opportunity?

I see opportunity here. There's a door open for you to point out some things. I'd say this is a perfect opportunity to stand up and be more active in your church. You can see the right and wrong in both sides, and you sense the destruction that has happened to the church. This looks like a calling to speak to the congregation!

Dig into the Bible about this. Galations 5:20 relates dissension and faction as those evil fruits of the sinful nature. Romans 3:23, 5:12 relate that all are fallen. Psalm 51:3 as well. Consider also God's response to Jonah's anger in Jonah 4 - relate the church as being the vine and Jonah as the people. 1st and 2nd Corinthians discusses and firmly points out the folly and err of faction and dissension.

Be careful to leave it on a positive note, and not to point fingers or take sides. Be careful to not dis-include yourself. Draw people to the middle ground, where God is the centerpiece of the greatest argument of all - that God is savior and Lord, and offers salvation and loves unconditionally.

Also, don't trust in your human ability. Pray about it, and do find people who you trust and bounce this idea off with those trusted people. As Proverbs 15:22 reads, "Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed."

 

[aperson1234]

I'm glad you did then. But since they did not listen to you... I would have no hesitation to leave. God spoke through you, and they did not listen to God's word.

 

[PappaDoc]

The Word says where ther is no vision the people cast off restraint! You need to get a Pastor that has a vision and allow Him or Her to take control of the direction of the church. If the families don't get it together they need to be exposed according to Eph. 5:11 and purged according to Rom. 16:17

My .02

 

[GrinningDwarf]

Speaking as an elder at a tiny country church, family B needs to be dealt with, to the point of asking them to leave, if neccessary, with the scriptural mandate as mentioned by PoppaDoc. To be honest, if the last pastor had dealt with it in this way the issue might have been cleared up by now. I've noticed that sometimes our pastor would rather not deal with an issue but just try to walk on eggshells around the 'well-intentioned dragons' in the church. I think one of the duties of an effective elder (or whatever any particular church might call senior lay-leadership) is to back up the pastor and take action when when the pastor feels he cannot.

I'll be keeping you and your church in prayer, mrstace.

 

[thunderbyrd]

Find the most spiritual memeber of the offended family -that would be family B, i think. Get them to read the Bait of satan by john bevere. it's a book just for this kind of insanity.

 

[KingZzub]

I am just looking for some comments, and thought about this situation.

I serve as an officer in my local church. In this church we have two families, let's call them family A and family B.

About 7 years ago, A member of family A, had a agrument with family B. Since then there have been several things to enlarge the sepeartion between these two families.

About 2 years ago, we had a young preacher in our church, who became our pastor. He had become friends with Family A, and A member of family A was an elder in our church.

Family B said that our pastor and elder should not be friends. They absoultely refused to support our pastor, and actually said a lot of bad things about him in the communitiy. Family B also used to be friends with the pastor at one point.

During the course of the last two years, there has been a huge division in our church. The bulk of the church loved the pastor, but this one family, and those they could get to side with them, made the pastor's life miserable.

Family B seems blinded with pride, they are not willing to resolve the differences with family A. At one point they approached the pastor wanting him to remove a member of family A from the church.

There is a huge sense of jealousy in family B.

About 2 weeks ago the pastor resigned. The divided church was just becoming more the he could bare. The night he quit most were crying, but family B was happy. It was so weird.

Now many are leaving the church. In the past year, half of our congration has left. The church is dying.

During this, I keep thinking that the church was like Judah in the Old Testmant, God had sent his prohpet (our pastor) and the people killed him.

One member of Family B was recently quoted as saying that "Her and her husband do not sin". I think 1 john1:8 says something about this?!

What can be done other than pray?

What a ghastly situation. I have prayed for you and sought the Lord for wisdom to be given to you in abundance.

My own advice would be to see if the pastor wants to come back. Is he making his decision out of the leading of the Spirit or out of sheer exhaustion? If as you say, he is a young man, dealing with the mechanations of church ministry, especially with those who think that they are better than others is difficult indeed.

I would then take steps to remove family B from the church. I would go round to their house and tell them that due to:

1. Spreading gossip about an elder (your pastor) - according to the Pastoral Epistles you should not do this without witnesses.

2. Exceptionally poor theology: that they do not sin.

3. Not supporting what God is doing in your midst.

That they are not welcome into your fellowship unless they are prepared to publically apologise for their attitudes. Tell them clearly that they are not to come to meetings or attend services.

I would then organise for a couple of weeks another preacher to teach on the Love Walk and how people walk in love. Maybe they could teach on how a church should be governed.

As a youth pastor, I had to deal with exactly this situation a few months ago. After the family were banned, they told everyone that they had not decided to come anymore, and stood outside the church every Sunday morning. Their son gave a letter to the entire youth group saying all my faults (some true, some fabled - does it matter?), and they had a special prayer meeting to pray for me to die.

Well, I am still here, the youth group has prospered, and they have said sorry and come back to the church. They are not serving the church in any way now, and that is great with everyone. They sort of sit at the back, and are quiet.

All is good.

Keep your own heart pure, but don't allow this to go on. I think that you should hold a members meeting and explain how the pastor feels and ask everyone: who do you want: family B or the pastor?


With love,
|Z|

 

[CrazyforYeshua]

I was talking to my Pastor last night about the spirit of division, because he had to deal with that on different levels for a few years. It's not easy being a Pastor, that's why you have to make sure you are truly called by God, too many will deal with these situations in the flesh ( like me, probably ). Anyway, I agree the Pastor should not have let it go on, he should have brought both families into the office and dealt with it ( I have no doubt mine would have, I've seen him do it). I don't know your Pastor, and I can not judge him, but if he left without trying to resolve it, I wonder if he didn't contribute to it. Now it is up to you to try and put this church back together. And the only way you can even try to start, is to bring those families together, if they are both still there. This needs to come to an end, somehow. If they are not both there, then you need to do as suggested, and somehow let them know this can not be tolerated in the family of God, and move on. I've seen my church go from almost that situation, to one of unity and growth, because we had to let God lead our Pastor, and the way He showed him to do this, was by loving them. He broke down in prayer one evening, and cried out to God, and He showed him the 12, sitting before Jesus, who, with a towel , was washing their feet. It was the hardest thing he had to do, totally kill the flesh, and love these people as God does. The ones that were the worst, left on their own accord. I truly believe God took them out, because He does not want division in His church.