A Disturbing Situation

[tcampen]

I understand what you're saying about sin always having existed in the heart of man. But our tolerance of these things is only getting worse, and so the problems are becoming even more prevalent. One can hardly say things are getting better.

So you think it was better to be a black woman in America 75 years ago? Or a person of Japanese heritage in 1943 in America? Or Jew in the deep south 150 years ago? When you think things are worse today than they used to be, you are looking at the world through your eyes alone. How dare we tolerate ethnic diversity!!!! How dare we tolerate differing points of view in a free society!!!!

Take it from a white, middle-class man in America, I would not want to live in America in any other time than right now. America has never offered more opportunity to ALL those who seek it than today.

I don't want to think you're anything but a considerate and compassionate person, but when I hear talk of "too much tolerance" or "Here we live in a nation that kills unborn children, mistreats the elderly, is filled with corruption and gay agendas and paganism, and we know our nation is being ripened for judgment" I see a type of bigotry lurking beneath it all. The alternative to counter these so-called "evils" of society would be a nation that America has never sought to become - oppressive and totalitarian. Maybe this sounds like utopia to you, but that would only last as long as YOU were in charge.

But regardless, your totalitarian America is not the rest of our free America.

 

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

How dare we tolerate ethnic diversity!!!!

When you start making things up to win your point, awhen you start putting words in people's mouths, you lose all credibility because nothing more you say can be trusted. And this statement is based on ignorance.

I don't want to think you're anything but a considerate and compassionate person, but when I hear talk of "too much tolerance" or "Here we live in a nation that kills unborn children, mistreats the elderly, is filled with corruption and gay agendas and paganism, and we know our nation is being ripened for judgment" I see a type of bigotry lurking beneath it all. But regardless, your totalitarian America is not the rest of our free America.

So your idea of compassion is to allow the slaughter of unborn children. I find this contradictory. I see no rationality in this and this discussion is no longer based on facts.

God bless and take care.

 

[Diatrive]

I'm taking my ball and going home.

 

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

I demand proof of Christianity because Christianity makes the ridiculous claim of absolute truth which they cannot support. Christianity furhter uses this ridiculous claim to claim all other religions ar false, including mine.

Your use of the "appeal to authority" fallacy is also ridiculous since you cannot even prove your God exists, much less that you have his actual words and will. You cannot prove Christ was God. You cannot prove he said any of the things that were attributed him. You cannot even provide one shred of substantive evidence that he rose from the dead, did miracles, or anything about him at all. Yet you still make these stupendous claims of absolute truth. What it really shows is you have no concept of the meaning of words like belief, truth, proof, evidence, etc.

I don't need proof for my religions because my religion is built on faith. Unlike most people we understand what faith is, we don't have to go around making ridiculous claims. If I was stupid enough to make a claim of absolute truth, I would expect to have to prove it.

So how about nixing the religious rhetoric and use the words correctly.

Things you've been asked numerous times in the past and have not answered, along with a couple of new questions:

1. Why do you demand proof for a religion you don't ascribe to, when you demand no such proof of the one you do?

2. If Christianity is so faulty, why do you spend your time amongst Christians?

3. If it silly for Christians to say your religion is false and you object to this, why do you do the same?

4. If Christianity is so false, why are you bothered enough by it to spend your time protesting it?

5. Teh fallacy of subjective truth has been proven, ad nauseum. But what is your answer to the impossibility of relevant truths? You never answer this question.

6. Why do you feel God has to prove anything to you? He isn't begging for believers. In fact, He only reveals Himself to those who truly and sincerely seek Him. Why does He owe you an explanation?

7. And if you'd like to answer the other questions I posed, we'd make some good headway, I think.

 

[Godzman]

Speaking as a Pagan I see the world being a lot better off with more loving and tolerant Paganism than with a lot of the hateful and intolerant Fundamentalist Christianity as evidenced by the prejudice and bigotry im many posts on this board.

What don't like generalisations about Christians? Then don't make generalisations about Pagans. We're not the reason for the hatred that is at the core of the problems in society.

so the pagans are tolerant, they gave us the gladiaotors remember, and they let the unborn out to die, we are making a rapid progress back to the Greeks and romans, and if you want that I'll pray for your soul

 

[platzapS]

Whitehorse, I do agree with you that abortion is horrible, and that there is much wrong in the world. But then again, there has always been.

Godzman, insulting Havoc and paganism in general. It doesn't really give a good impression of Christianity.

 

[Godzman]

Whitehorse, I do agree with you that abortion is horrible, and that there is much wrong in the world. But then again, there has always been.

Godzman, insulting Havoc and paganism in general. It doesn't really give a good impression of Christianity.

well i am just stating that the pagans of the past have persecuted the Christians, and threw us to the gladiators, no not the best impression but I am being honest maybe not as kind as I should be but honest.

Blame the Christians for the worlds troubles is silly

 

[Fiendishjester]

Uhhh, saying that Havoc's Paganism is responsible for gladiators is kind of a blanket statement, considering that Christians would label anything non-Christian as Pagan. Havoc's Paganism may not be the same religion as that of the Romans or Greeks.
Please don't turn this into a "Christianity vs. Paganism" or any other such kind of debate. I rather enjoy discussing the original topic.

 

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

Whitehorse, I do agree with you that abortion is horrible, and that there is much wrong in the world. But then again, there has always been.

Well, that's true. And the world has suffered for it since the beginning of time, too. And now it's going to be our turn.

Godzman, insulting Havoc and paganism in general. It doesn't really give a good impression of Christianity.

I think he's just pointing out that Christians aren't these bigots and universal ill-doers of all time, but that pagans have quite a history of their own. After all, Havoc did call us bigotted and intolerant, yada yada.

 

[Godzman]

Well, that's true. And the world has suffered for it since the beginning of time, too. And now it's going to be our turn.



I think he's just pointing out that Christians aren't these bigots and universal ill-doers of all time, but that pagans have quite a history of their own. After all, Havoc did call us bigotted and intolerant, yada yada.

exactly now continue on with the topic at hand

 

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

Well, that would apply to the parties that got it off track. To put Christians on the defensive at a Christian forum and then try to hush them from making their points...it just looks really, really bad.

But I'm sure you weren't doing that. And I agree, I like the original topic, too.

 

[Fiendishjester]

DialecticMaterialist[/b]]Implement the Final Solution?

***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just realized this, but this is some, in the eternal words of Samuel L. Jackson, "Some F-ed up repugnant $@i*"
How are you gonna say implement the final solution? Would you like it if I said, "So many right wing christians, so few lions" or, lets kill all of the white christians by a plethora of means, including incineration, gas and what not? What sort of hate is this, it only gives more evidence to Havoc. Really now, what sort of Christian do you claim to be? Genocide? You want Genocide!? Maybe we should start with you.

I have been asked to change the last sentence, but no, do you realize what the "Final solution" is, I'm extremely surprised no one picked this up before. Some one advocating the "Final Solution" doesn't deserve any courtesy at all, it's true, if you advocate genocide, start with yourself, that's plain and simple. There is no justification whatsoever of that kind of hatred, it must be crushed, and if I'm frank, so be it, this is not a light situation.

 

[Godzman]

***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just realized this, but this is some, in the eternal words of Samuel L. Jackson, "Some F-ed up repugnant $@i*"
How are you gonna say implement the final solution? Would you like it if I said, "So many right wing christians, so few lions" or, lets kill all of the white christians by a plethora of means, including incineration, gas and what not? What sort of hate is this, it only gives more evidence to Havoc. Really now, what sort of Christian do you claim to be? Genocide? You want Genocide!? Maybe we should start with you.

Ok false advirtising I never said that, in fact that is ludicrus, I was just stating that the pagans are just as guilty and have blemishes to.

GeeZ

 

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

Ok false advirtising I never said that, in fact that is ludicrus, I was just stating that the pagans are just as guilty and have blemishes to.

GeeZ

Yeah, I think they're just flaming you to get you riled and to entertain themselves. Just ignore them out of existence.

 

[Fiendishjester]

ohhhhhhhh, my bad, it started with you as a quote, it was DialecticMaterialist
who said that, 1000 apologies

 

[Diatrive]

To put Christians on the defensive at a Christian forum

I quote "A new forum for the discussion and debate of general philosophy, epistemology & morality open to all members."

 

[Havoc]

From the OP: Here we live in a nation that kills unborn children, mistreats the elderly, is filled with corruption and gay agendas and paganism, and we know our nation is being ripened for judgment.

Then there's this portion of the equation: we live in a nation where we win our wars without having to even think about it. And we have an ungrateful country that slams our president every day, complaining about the taxes to fund the effort, a sarcastic quote each night of how many have died "since the end of serious conflict," and we no longer care for our own safety. In fact, we despise and condemn it every day.

So your idea of compassion is to allow the slaughter of unborn children. I find this contradictory. I see no rationality in this and this discussion is no longer based on facts.

God bless and take care.

From the first post your arguement never was based on facts.

 

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

From the first post your arguement never was based on facts.

Kindly point out which statements you think are not facts and your basis for making this claim, and I will be happy to answer them. And please feel free to answer any of the questions I've asked so far. Several months of backlog now.

 

[Havoc]

Things you've been asked numerous times in the past and have not answered, along with a couple of new questions:

1. Why do you demand proof for a religion you don't ascribe to, when you demand no such proof of the one you do?

2. If Christianity is so faulty, why do you spend your time amongst Christians??

I answered this question in the very post you quoted, claiming I don't answer questions. Do you actually read other posts? Here it is again for you.
"I demand proof of Christianity because Christianity makes the ridiculous claim of absolute truth which they cannot support. Christianity furhter uses this ridiculous claim to claim all other religions ar false, including mine... I don't need proof for my religions because my religion is built on faith. Unlike most people we understand what faith is, we don't have to go around making ridiculous claims. If I was stupid enough to make a claim of absolute truth, I would expect to have to prove it."
That should answer your question... AGAIN.

3. If it silly for Christians to say your religion is false and you object to this, why do you do the same??

I don't recall ever saying your religion is silly, just your ridiculous, unsupportable calim of absolute truth. If I ever made such a claim, without the substantive evidence to back it up, I would expect to be ridiculed too.

4. If Christianity is so false, why are you bothered enough by it to spend your time protesting it??

I enjoy good debate. In the abscence of good debate I enjoy debunking religious rhetoric.

5. Teh fallacy of subjective truth has been proven, ad nauseum. But what is your answer to the impossibility of relevant truths? You never answer this question.?

I'm not a relativist. I firmly believe there is an absolute truth. I just don't jump on every bandwagon of every Tom, Dick, and Harry who claims to have it.

6. Why do you feel God has to prove anything to you? He isn't begging for believers. In fact, He only reveals Himself to those who truly and sincerely seek Him. Why does He owe you an explanation??

I don't feel you God owes me, or is, anything. I don't believe he exists. To expect anything of a non-existant being would make me rather silly. I have no reason to believe your claim that he selectively "reveals himself" etc. It doesn't make much sense and it's not supported by substantive evidence. I support your right to believe it but I don't support your claim that it is the "truth".

7. And if you'd like to answer the other questions I posed, we'd make some good headway, I think.

I do answer your questions. It seems you just don't like the answers. Perhaps you caould answer some of my questions. Particulary the ones regarding substantive evidence?

 

[Blindfaith]

I quote "A new forum for the discussion and debate of general philosophy, epistemology & morality open to all members."

General Apologetics has a whole host of topics.


Keep this thread nice people.