A Disciplined Probabilistic Approach to Biblical Hermeneutics

tonychanyt

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Disclaimer: I am not against other scholarly or spiritual approaches to hermeneutics. In fact, I employ these approaches plus the one I am proposing here. I weigh different approaches.

I propose a denomination-free, logical, and probabilistic approach to interpreting the Scripture. I have never been an official member of any denomination. This is my attempt to stop the arguing among the different denominations, provided the debaters adhere to the method here.

Axiom: The 66 books of the OT and NT autograph manuscripts were God-breathed.

To ensure everyone is discussing the same thing, it is important to have an agreed operational definition of the key term. Arguing about freewill without first defining it is a waste of time. Also, Christians argue about once saved always saved without a common and precise definition. Arguing about words without their operational semantics will not be productive.

When it comes to doctrines, I try to stick precisely to the words and wording in the Bible. See Mother of God and My Take on Trinity.

I instinctively practice Occam's razor. I put more weight on simple arguments over complicated ones, direct statements over implied conclusions, and unifying explanations over ad-hoc explanations. I look for elegance. See Homosexual acts are sinful.

By nature, I am slow in generalizing. I avoid isms because they tend to over-generalize, e.g., Onanism, Calvinism, etc. People who like to generalize tend to over-generalize.

I use First-Order Logic for formal reasoning. I am slow because I'd like to see detailed step-by-step logical deductions without any missing steps. People who are not trained in formal logic tend to jump to conclusions. They often conflate ∃-for-some with ∀-for-all.

Analogical reasoning is not a valid method within the framework of FOL. I rarely use it. When others do, I don't put much weight on it.

Many passages are symbolic and poetic, rich with figures of speech. They must be considered before applying first-order logic to the resultant proposition statements.

However, FOL does not always resolve a problem. Then, I employ probabilistic analysis. David did as well. This is where Subjective (Bayesian) Probability comes in.

Some paradoxes/contradictions, such as false dichotomy, can be nicely solved by Co-Reality Model, i.e., the horizontal perspective complements the vertical perspective.

Is it okay to speculate on the Scriptures?

Yes, "speculate" in this context doesn't mean randomness or baselessness. It means thoughtful analysis of the biblical passages. After my conjecture, speculation, or guessing, I assign a weight to the end result. The higher the weight, the higher my confidence.

When it comes to eschatological stuff, I often take the lazy way out, i.e., wait until after the facts rather than speculating.

I use the following words only in their formal logical sense: prove, deduce, entail, conclude, imply, contradict, therefore, unique, etc.

I try to avoid these words and phrases of extreme: absolutely, certainly, obviously, clearly, irrefutable proof, the only way, no doubt, nothing to do with, must, have to, of course, absurd, debunk, easily, simply, plainly, most, best, very, the true this and the true that, prooftext, theory, there can be little argument, the Bible says, the Bible does not say, etc. Excessive use of intensifiers is often a sign of unbalanced and intellectual immaturity.

Don't be defensive, but stay objective. When disagreeing, I try to accommodate and find common ground. I admit different options with probabilities. I'm happy when someone proves me wrong because I would have learned something new. I enjoy the freedom to learn from everyone in the forum.

Proverbs 18:

17 The one who states his case first seems right until the other comes and examines him.
Proverbs 19:

11 Good sense makes one slow to anger, and it is his glory to overlook an offense.
Psalm 131:

1 My heart is not proud, LORD, my eyes are not haughty; I do not concern myself with great matters or things too wonderful for me.
Titus 3:

9 Avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the law because these things are pointless and worthless. 10 Reject a divisive man after a first and second admonition
I visit Biblehub.com every day.

I have been reading the Bible every day since 1994. Familiarize yourself with the whole Bible by daily reading.

People tend to believe what they subjectively want to believe. This approach offers a degree of objectivity in biblical interpretation. It will not resolve all differences, but it guarantees to terminate any arguments within a practical number of steps, provided the participants agree to bet based on their subjective probability.

The goal is to arrive at a consentaneous set of Christian beliefs by logical and probabilistic reasoning to Biblical hermeneutics. This can be a unifying force, but I'm not interested in building an echo chamber. I welcome anyone who is sincere, objective, and civil. The potential collective intelligence of this kind of community is unbeatable :)

See also The logical problem with Calvin and Calvinism.
 

tonychanyt

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JesusFollowerForever

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Right.


More a logician. I have a PhD in AI :)

See TonyChanYT.CV
LOL, I was close, when i was much younger, i wanted to develop AI but I soon abandoned computer science as I quickly realized that the computers of that era when I was in computer science could not possibly produce anything worthwhile or come close to AI. The weird thing is that I now live only a few Km away from a HUGE IBM research centre developing and building quantum computers.. lol the thing is the development of algorithms for quantum computing seem a bit complex, IBM admits they have few advances on how to program properly these beasts.. but in a few years it will be different I am certain but will it be used for primarily for good or evil?

Cheers.
 
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Stephen3141

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This is a good topic, to discuss.
---------- ----------

I think that Christians need to become more complicated, in the way they think.
(We should not impose our limits in intellectual development, onto topics
that the scriptures present.)

Occam's razor is good for explanations. But the hard sciences have demonstrated
that Einstein's theories on a number of things, are more complicated than Newton's,
although Newton's system can get the right answers on a number of topics, using
simpler calculations.

Subatomic physics, have been demonstrated in recent years, to be MUCH MORE
COMPLICATED than Einstein thought. There is no reason that compelled God, to
use Occam's razor when he created.

I would say for Christians, it is better to be right, than to be simple.
Although, Christian apologists should try to present simple explanations,
of difficult Christian truths.

What is "simple" (the definition of "simple") unfortunately, is often considered
in the context of an individual's model of something (like theology, or a system
of conspiracy theories). The ultimate "simple" explanation for everything, is
"the devil made me do it", or "the Deep State screwed up everything." We must
be very careful in differentiating between what is CONVENIENT as an explanation
(because we don't want to think), and what is the "simplest" explanation given
the objective evidence.

The question of what sound evidence is, is crucial. Because this is the trigger
that forces an intellectually responsible person to re-evaluate their personal
belief system. (The lack of this epistemological method, is what characterizes
those who embrace conspiracy theories.)

Also, probabilities are based on counts that are thrown into some group of
defined bins. When Christians use late medieval definitions, instead of biblical
bin definitions, the resulting probabilities will not correlate with biblical
weighting. I think that 60% of questions asked on Christian apologetics sites,
are the result of using non-biblical definitions. Using biblical definitions in
formal proofs/arguments, requires going back to using biblical definitions/
concepts. This has nothing to do with the modern Rules of Inference in formal logic,
but not using biblical definitions, results in UNSOUND arguments/proofs. This is
a topic addressed by modern "critical thinking" courses, or in the past, by
books on "informal logic" (such as Irving Copi's book "Informal Logic").
This "informal logic" is really the basic concepts about thinking and reality,
from the ancient philosophers. It is upstream of formal proofs.
---------- ----------

Unfortunately, modern Christians have not thought much about thinking.
Those groups who despise the intellect, haven't followed the historical
philosophical discussions that think about what thinking is. (To state
what is obvious to other thinking people.)
 
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Josheb

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I instinctively practice Occam's razor.
The posts prove otherwise.

THE simplest explanation possible is "God did it." If you truly adhered to Occam's Razor then you'd be monergist, thoroughly. So stop hiding behind the sophistry and requiring others to subscribe to standards you yourself do not practice. That one sentence undermined your entire op.
I propose a denomination-free, logical, and probabilistic approach to interpreting the Scripture.....................................................

See also The logical problem with Calvin and Calvinism.
You just contradicted yourself.

This op is filled with internal contradictions. It is irreconcilable with someone claiming to use reason (or logic) and wanting an unbiased conversation.
 
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tonychanyt

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You just contradicted yourself.
Can you quote my words that are contradictory according to First-Order Logic? I don't think you understand what I have just asked you. Your next reply will prove that. Let me stress for the 3rd and the last time, I prefer to argue with people who can write according to FOL. You are not making First-Order Logical sense.
 
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Josheb

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Can you quote my words that are contradictory according to First-Order Logic? I don't think you understand what I have just asked you. Your next reply will prove that. Let me stress for the 3rd and the last time, I prefer to argue with people who can write according to FOL. You are not making First-Order Logical sense.
Already did. Can you refrain from asking questions already answered?

Can you also show me where the words "probably" or "probability" can be found in scripture?
Is the difference between exegesis and hermeneutic understood?
Are you Dispensationalist?
 
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Stephen3141

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(I am having trouble with how many of the responses to this thread,
don't really deal with the original post of Tony.)

I think that there is a context for this discussion, which needs
to be explicitly discussed. This context includes a number of topics,
that are almost NEVER discussed, in Christian apologetics.
---------- ----------

About our shared reality:

Regardless of our individual persuasions about what "reality" is
(I use the phrase "our shared reality", to emphasize that we must be
discussing things that are potentially accessible to all of us), the
Bible presents a view of our shared reality. And it is this "reality" that
is the basis of core christian doctrines (which we are trying to explain/
defend in Christian apologetics.

The Bible presents components of this shared reality, often without using
the language of "pay attention here! I am telling you a component of your shared reality!"
An example would be the command "You shall not bear false witness". This only makes
sense, if there is a fixed concept of what our shared reality is, and how we could
perceive it (if we made the effort), and the ability of human language to express
accurately (enough) what this shared reality is like, and if we have the free will
to choose to accurately bear witness about this shared reality, or to pervert our
expressions about this shared reality.

The historical discussions that think about thinking, are crucial to our discussion
about what this shared reality is, and how we can perceive it (if we make the effort).
Try reading Hannah Arendt's book on "The Life of the Mind".

Out shared reality at least includes:
-- the physical universe
-- biological life
-- valid reasoning methods
-- abstract concepts
-- the history of God, interacting with human beings
-- what we call the canon of Scripture
-- human languages, that are based on logic
-- a global sense of right and wrong, that Christianity calls "the conscience"
...

(I discuss components, in the book "Making Bible Study Formal".)

Regardless of how some individuals argue that there is no shared reality,
or that we cannot know what this shared reality is, they use global concepts
and global languages to argue this point, which undercuts their argument.
---------- ----------

As some of the out-of-print books on logic mention, initial
definitions are VERY important. If your initial definitions in a proof are not
consistent with our shared reality, then your proof is UNSOUND, regardless
of whether or not it is syntactically correct (logically VALID).

As DEFINITIONS define sets of individuals (think of labels for circles,
in a Venn diagram), inaccurate definitions will result in inaccurate sets of
individuals. With regard to statistics and probability theory, counting
individuals in inaccurately defined sets, will result in errors in statistics and
probabilities. Errors in the definition of basic biblical terms, will result in
errors in trying to extract the meaning of the biblical text.
---------- ----------

Different theologies have different definitions of what "divinely inspired" means.
Theologies that are "democratic" and assert that the Scriptures present truth in
a way in which it it easy to discern, are the anti-intellectual theologies. They do
not recognize that Scripture only presents some truth (what is vital for us to
know), and only to a degree of detail that we need to know.

It is clear in Scripture, that some truths that the Bible presents, are difficult to
understand.

15 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, 16 speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.
New American Bible, Revised Edition. (Washington, DC: The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 2011), 2 Pe 3:15–16.

It is the anti-intellectual Christian groups, who demand that Scripture is
simple and straightforward to understand. Human language can express
very complicated concepts, and there are many people who do not understand
a lot that Scripture presents. This is why careful study is required, and why
there exist biblical scholars, as opposed to amateurs who claim that Scripture
is all very easy to understand.
---------- ----------
With regard to biblical scholarship, there are world-class biblical reference
books (these are non-denominational), and there are parochial (denominational)
reference books (which are often very limited in their accuracy).

With the best biblical scholarship, there is often a consensus (in the world-class
reference books) by scholars on some interpretations of texts, and there is often
a disagreement on the interpretation of some texts. (You could look at this agreemtn
or disagreement probabilistically....) At least, respect the interpretations that the
scholars agree on. In (BDAG), these texts are listed as "example" of the different
meanings of words and phrases in the New Testament.
---------- ---------

That's my take on probability, and Christian apologetics.
 
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Josheb

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How about we (you and I) pick up the original two conversations we were having in those threads, and start by getting back on topic and sticking to the specified subject in each thread?

There are scripture-provided answers explaining why the Jews did what they did when Jesus implied equality with God and those explanations are not present in that op. It's not so much that op is incorrect, just that it is enormously inadequate if the "why" is to be answered with whole scripture. Similarly, the conversation in "Jesus' Plunder" has stalled with a pair of very valid and op-relevant inquiries sitting unanswered. The (correct) answers to those questions are critical to understanding the significance of Luke 11's strongman lesson. Those answers are, as you might put it, "step-by-step" logically necessary predicates that prevent missteps. Would you prefer I post a more encompassing reply to those two ops independent of you rather then engage you (step by step) in the discussion of your own ops? Let me know because I am happy to do either.
 
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Stephen3141

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By the way, there is a big difference between an EXPLANATION, and a PROOF.

An explanation, is what rhetoricians may use to try to persuade someone that
some proposition is true. There is no necessary reason, that what may PERSUADE
someone, is actually a true argument.

One of the differences is that a proof must be based on premises
that are relevant to the Conclusion, that is trying to be proven. If
these premises are not themselves demonstrated to be true, then the
proof is UNSOUND.

I understand Occam to be saying that the demonstration that some
supposed conclusion is true, is better if there is a smaller number of
initial premises (in the Assumption part of the proof).
---------- ----------

There is a common confusion between an explanation, and an assertion.

If we defend the points of our personal theology with
"because the Bible says it's so"

then, this is an assertion. It also functions as an explanation of
how we reached our Conclusion, but it is NOT a proof or DEMONSTRATION
of why our Conclusion is correct.
---------- ----------

Many explanations are actually kinds of arguments that need to themselves
be demonstrated as true.

an example would be...
1 In Corinthians Paul commands women to cover their heads when praying or
prophesying in the congregation
2 He did this because there was a culture in Corinth of loose women, who did not
hold to appropriate dress and behavior
3 therefore, these commands of Paul do not apply to Christian congregations, today.

This is an argument from outside of the biblical text -- it is an argument from
silence. It should not be given credibility, over the apostle's teaching.

(This is the form of many arguments, that try to identify specific commands in
Scripture as "merely cultural", and not applying to all Christians.)
 
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