A different view of the Rapture.

[Jig]

The price for sin is physical and spiritual death. (Romans 5:12; Romans 6:23)

We all must experence physical death for are sins, but Jesus dead to save us from spiritual death (eternal seperation from God).

My question is (I'm not sure if this has come up before or even discussed): When the rapture happens, will we die physically that instant? I mean...maybe the movie Left Behind has it wrong. Maybe when the rapture occurs, it is only our souls that are caught up in the clouds with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:17) This makes since...I mean, why would we need are Earthly bodies still?

This would mean...all are physical bodies (our sinful flesh) would be left behind to rot with the rest of the world.

Can you imagine in a blink of an eye there suddenly is millions of corpses just laying around the world? I believe the 'world' could explain away this happening by calling it a mass flash plague or placing some kind of scientific theory to it (such as a catastrophic cosmological event dealing with high energy sun flares or something ) ...This would be a lot easier than explaining away millions of purely missing people.

What do you guys think?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

There is no Rapture.

Forgive me....

 

[Lynn73]

In my opinion, God won't leave the bodies of the living behind as corpses laying around. It says in 1 Thess 4 that we which are alive and remain shall be caught up. I believe that includes our bodies and that they are instantaneously changed.

 

[Advent Christian]

Hello Jig;
While I do not believe it to be the occurrence most call the Rapture, I believe the instant of the Lord’s return the children of God will instantly be transformed into their new bodies (which will include at least some form of our earthly vessel). I believe the bible teaches this being based on the description given of our Lord at His resurrection, Jesus returned in His fleshly appearance, and though He did not attain His sanctified state until He first rose to God He was in a physical manifestation which He maintained also after His ascension to the Father.
As always my love to all and May God Bless.

 

[Iollain]

This is the Rapture, when the dead are raised and the body is changed into incorruptible, those living at the time will be changed to incorruptible as well. Same body but changed:


1Cr 15:35 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?


1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:


1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:


1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


1Cr 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.


1Cr 15:40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.


1Cr 15:41 [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.


1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:


1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:


1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.


1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.


1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.


1Cr 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.


1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.


1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


1Cr 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?


1Cr 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.


1Cr 15:57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


1Cr 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

 

[holdon]

There is no Rapture.

That's right, there isn't. But there will be:

1 Thess 4:17 then we, the living who remain, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall be always with the Lord.

 

[depthdeception]

The price for sin is physical and spiritual death. (Romans 5:12; Romans 6:23)

We all must experence physical death for are sins, but Jesus dead to save us from spiritual death (eternal seperation from God).

I do not understand why you are dividing physical and spiritual death. If the real problem of sin is "spiritual death," it makes no sense why Christ died physically. Obviously, Christ died to save us from physical death as well.

maybe the movie Left Behind has it wrong.

There are not many things in the world that are as sure as this statement!

Maybe when the rapture occurs, it is only our souls that are caught up in the clouds with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:17) This makes since...I mean, why would we need are Earthly bodies still?

Because your "earthly body" is you. There will be no separation, for to be human is to be body/soul; they cannot be divided. If you ceased to be body, you would cease to be--period.

This would mean...all are physical bodies (our sinful flesh) would be left behind to rot with the rest of the world.

Physical bodies are not sinful. That is the error of gnostic thought, a heresy which has been condemned by the historic Church from the very beginning.

Can you imagine in a blink of an eye there suddenly is millions of corpses just laying around the world? I believe the 'world' could explain away this happening by calling it a mass flash plague or placing some kind of scientific theory to it (such as a catastrophic cosmological event dealing with high energy sun flares or something ) ...This would be a lot easier than explaining away millions of purely missing people.

What do you guys think?

[/quote]

I don't think there will a "rapture" in the popular sense of the term.

 

[depthdeception]

There is no Rapture.

Forgive me....

Preach it, my Orthodox brother.

 

[Melethiel]

OUSA and depthdeception already said what I was going to say.

 

[depthdeception]

OUSA and depthdeception already said what I was going to say.

Go ahead and say it anyway. The more the merrier!

 

[GraceInHim]

Go ahead and say it anyway. The more the merrier!

since you and some others seem to know a lot.. can you tell me what these words mean?


1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 [15] According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. [16] For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. [17] After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
1 Corinthians 15:51-55 [51] Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed -- [52] in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. [53] For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. [54] When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." [55] "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?"

 

[Iollain]

If you believe the rapture will be in pre, mid or post tribulation, it is still the Rapture of the Church.

 

[Lynn73]

Whatever term you wish to call it, the Bible states that we which are alive and remain shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. I think the term "rapture" is used because it comes from a (can't remember for sure) Green or Latin word "rapio" or something like that which means a catching away. Call it whatever you like, it's going to happen.

 

[Melethiel]

If you believe the rapture will be in pre, mid or post tribulation, it is still the Rapture of the Church.

The passages which refer to the "rapture" are referring to the Last Day, and are generally not given a proper name. There is no "Tribulation" as in the common view of 7 years of BLOOD, DEATH, GORE, MAYHEM...oops, got carried away there.

 

[GraceInHim]

still no answer for the verses I posted.. hmmm..

 

[Melethiel]

still no answer for the verses I posted.. hmmm..

I just did. See the post above yours.

 

[GraceInHim]

I just did. See the post above yours.

have scripture to back it up?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The scriptures that are associated with a "Rapture" speaks of how fast "The End" will come... nothing more.

The rapture is a very strong and powerful subject among my southern brothers.

It's a false idea of what "The End" of Time will be like.

There have been MANY threads on this subject and all I am doing here is repeating....

Regardless.... A Rapture, as "imagined" in the modern secular view has never existed in the Apostolic Church.

If you believe that something new has been revealed since Christ handed the Church to the Apostles complete and perfected then..... your going to wind up with all kinds of wrong ideas.

There are no new revelations. The rest are just imaginings.....

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

All of us.... good and bad will be caught up at the same moment.

We will all stand before Christ God for all eternity being what we have made of ourselves.... some of us are going to be joyous and others are going to be quite miserable...

But we all (the living, the dead go before us) go at the same time..... Christians will "live through" the last days... NOT raptured out before Tribulations begin.

We as Christians must suffer through it.... thats right suffer.

Forgive me....

 

[GraceInHim]

The church will be "kept from the hour of testing that shall come upon all the world." (Rev. 3:10)

The believer will escape the tribulation (Luke 21:36).

It is in the character of God to deliver His own from the greatest times of trial. (Lot, Rahab. Israel, Noah,etc)

It is clear that there is a time interval between the translation of the church and the Return of Christ. (John 14:3)

At the Rapture, the church meets Christ in the air. At the second coming, Christ returns to the Mt of Olives

No unfulfilled prophecy stands between the church and the rapture. Many signs must be fulfilled before the second coming of Christ.

could go on and on....

there are too many verses to say God will not save his children from the Satan's hands in the end-times..