A detail about the transfiguration I don't understand

[CGL1023]

I am most familiar with Matthew's account of the transfiguration. In it we find Peter, James and John in the presence of Jesus, Moses and Elijah. Now Moses is the only one that is dead; that is according to the Deuteronomy 34:5-6 and in Jude, Michael disputes with Satan over the body of Moses.
How can Moses be there unless he has been resurrected. If that happened, when would it have happened? Did that actually happen? If it didn't happen, then the there would have been interaction with the dead which, I believe, would be in violation of Jewish law.

I need someone to shed some light on this issue to tie up seeming loose ends.

added 1 day later
Matthew 17:1-8 (NKJV)
Jesus Transfigured on the Mount
Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”

5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. 7 But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.”8 When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.

 

[tturt]

But the disciples didn't interact with Moses and Elijah, they just observed them. Right?

Plus they had not tried to contact them in the spirit world beforehand. This was Yahweh's call.

 

[Hieronymus]

Maybe it was a view into a piece of eternity.

 

[CGL1023]

But the disciples didn't interact with Moses and Elijah, they just observed them. Right?

Plus they had not tried to contact them in the spirit world beforehand. This was Yahweh's call.

Matthew 17:1-8 (NKJV)
Jesus Transfigured on the Mount
Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”

5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. 7 But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.”8 When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.

We see from the scripture that "Moses and Elijah...(were) talking to Him(Jesus). We can conclude that no part of the Jewish Law was violated as Jesus was present. That would seem to mean that Moses was not dead. I have only explored the obvious scenario but in it we run into a dilemma--Moses not dead, contrary to Deut 34:5-6.

 

[tatteredsoul]

But the disciples didn't interact with Moses and Elijah, they just observed them. Right?

Plus they had not tried to contact them in the spirit world beforehand. This was Yahweh's call.

Maybe it was a view into a piece of eternity.

I think these are on track. Spirituality, everything that will happen, has already happened. The book of Life is written, so seeing transfigured patriarchs/saints isn't a big deal relatively speaking. Even the disciples (who were Hebrews) thought Christ may be Elijah returned.

In addition, the saints crying, "How long, Lord..." were told to be patient and given "white robes" - literal clothes of white light like. remember

 

[tz620q]

I am most familiar with Matthew's account of the transfiguration. In it we find Peter, James and John in the presence of Jesus, Moses and Elijah. Now Moses is the only one that is dead; that is according to the Deuteronomy 34:5-6 and in Jude, Michael disputes with Satan over the body of Moses.
How can Moses be there unless he has been resurrected. If that happened, when would it have happened? Did that actually happen? If it didn't happen, then the there would have been interaction with the dead which, I believe, would be in violation of Jewish law.

I need someone to shed some light on this issue to tie up seeming loose ends.

added 1 day later
Matthew 17:1-8 (NKJV)
Jesus Transfigured on the Mount
Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves;2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”

5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. 7 But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.”8 When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.

One thought is that Moses represents the Law and Elijah the Prophets of the Old Testament. At first the disciples see Jesus and the Law and Prophets, showing Jesus as the fulfillment of these. Then when they try to worship all three by building tabernacles (remember a tabernacle had gone from being a tent to being a representation of God among us). The Law and the Prophets disappear and only Jesus is left.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

I am most familiar with Matthew's account of the transfiguration. In it we find Peter, James and John in the presence of Jesus, Moses and Elijah. Now Moses is the only one that is dead; that is according to the Deuteronomy 34:5-6 and in Jude, Michael disputes with Satan over the body of Moses.
How can Moses be there unless he has been resurrected. If that happened, when would it have happened? Did that actually happen? If it didn't happen, then the there would have been interaction with the dead which, I believe, would be in violation of Jewish law.

I need someone to shed some light on this issue to tie up seeming loose ends.

Moses' physical body died, but his spirit lived on, like Jesus' physical body died but his spirit lived on.
When debating with the sadducees about the resurrection Jesus said:
MT 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
MT 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Is your confusion that people are not supposed to be resurrected until a specific time?

 

[tturt]

never mind.

 

[Pedrito]

A few thoughts for CGL1023, tturt, etc.

A major clue to the situation may be found in Matthew 17:9:

And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, Tell the vision to no one until the Son of man has risen from the dead.

What they saw was a vision. They were witnessing something outside their present time reality.

With respect to Endtime Survivors' question in Post #7:

Is your confusion that people are not supposed to be resurrected until a specific time?

I submit for initial consideration, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17:

13 Now we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, concerning those who have died, lest you be sorrowful as those who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose [again], thus also God will bring with Him those who die in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall by no means precede those who are dead.
16 Because the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a word of command, with [the] voice of an archangel, and with [the] trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first.

17 Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

So there seems to be a specific time for Church members at least, to be resurrected.

And also 1 Corinthians 15:21 may be relevant:

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Paul looked forward to that occurrence in Philippians 3:11:

if in some way I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Putting those two thoughts together (a vision, and the resurrection of the dead), we see a possible answer to CGL1023's question in Post #1:

How can Moses be there unless he has been resurrected.

The disciples were being given a vision of a future time, a time after which Moses and Elijah had been resurrected by means of the atoning death of Jesus, which they were discussing. I suggest that Hieronymus' broadly stated idea in Post #3 has merit:

Maybe it was a view into a piece of eternity.

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And with respect to CGL1023's thought in Post #1:

Now Moses is the only one that is dead...

which appears to refer to the commonly expressed idea that Elijah did not die, but was taken to Heaven as opposed to heaven (= the sky) in 2 Kings 2:11:

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

May I suggest that a closer review of relevant Scripture may indicate that that idea may not have solid support. (It would be great if someone else who has done the investigation could enlighten us in this regard.)

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Hopefully these thoughts have been helpful in some way.

 

[retlaw]

The more interesting question to me is how did the Disciples recognize Moses and Elijah when they had no clue what they looked like. I mean when I think of Moses I think of Charlton Heston but I'm pretty sure he wasn't white and European in appearance. I theorize that in the spirit world you don't know people by physical appearance but by some method not knwn to us on this earth.

As for the time discussion I'm pretty sure the spirit world exists outside of the bounds of time so the concept of now vs then vs future is not a limitation. Jesus discussed resurrection saying that God identified himself as the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob using the present tense because they were not dead but alive.

 

[Job8]

How can Moses be there unless he has been resurrected. If that happened, when would it have happened? Did that actually happen? If it didn't happen, then the there would have been interaction with the dead which, I believe, would be in violation of Jewish law.

We need not speculate about this matter, since God has chosen to withhold the details from us. The fact of the matters is that Moses and Elijah both appeared at that time in a manner which permitted the disciples to identify them clearly. They would have been in bodily form and they were found to be conversing with Christ regarding His departure (exodus). We will not know what happened behind the scene, and it would be unwise to speculate.

 

[Job8]

The more interesting question to me is how did the Disciples recognize Moses and Elijah when they had no clue what they looked like.

Why can we not simply believe that God enabled the disciples to recognize the two prophets supernaturally? Or perhaps Moses appeared with a rod in his hand (or the two tablets of stone), while Elijah was dressed similar to John the Baptist? This is simply speculation.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Why can we not simply believe that God enabled the disciples to recognize the two prophets supernaturally? Or perhaps Moses appeared with a rod in his hand (or the two tablets of stone), while Elijah was dressed similar to John the Baptist? This is simply speculation.

I prefer to think they were righteous (enough) in the spirit to recognize them. Lot recognized the men who visited him were angels - not because they had wings or extreme glory (it would have been talked about, and the angels were able to eat human food.) They knew they were (correctly,) magistrates - certainly from God - and were treated as such. The sick in the spirit people in Lot's city wanted to enjoy their flesh, rather than commune with them Godly. Even if they could sense they were "more glorious than a regular human," it just spoiled into temptation and sin. So, glory was transformed into lust, beauty into envy/idolatry, etc.

Just on a basic level, if we assume everyone in Heaven looked alike, there would be distinguishing features to let your mind (and spirit) properly identify people. (People who are around/friends/family with multiples should understand this.)

 

[FireDragon76]

In Jewish tradition, Moses was taken into heaven (as was Elijah, it's in the Bible). Jewish readers of the story would have understood this implicitly. The Transfiguration is is the "coming into the glory of his kingdom" that he spoke of just a passage earlier, since Moses and Elijah were seen as the Law and the Prophets.

 

[ewq1938]

I am most familiar with Matthew's account of the transfiguration. In it we find Peter, James and John in the presence of Jesus, Moses and Elijah. Now Moses is the only one that is dead; that is according to the Deuteronomy 34:5-6 and in Jude, Michael disputes with Satan over the body of Moses.
How can Moses be there unless he has been resurrected.

A spirit can appear to have a body like like the Holy Spirit did when it appeared as a dove. Christ assured the disciples he was not a spirit because he had a physical form which proves spirit can appear to have bodies but not actually be physical. Doesn't matter if you believe in ghosts but ever seen some pictures that claim to show ghosts or read of peoples accounts? Often the ghost looks like a person even with clothes but of course it only looks that way there is no actual person, body or clothes.

 

[ewq1938]

We need not speculate about this matter, since God has chosen to withhold the details from us. The fact of the matters is that Moses and Elijah both appeared at that time in a manner which permitted the disciples to identify them clearly.

Identify people they have never seen before...

 

[Job8]

Identify people they have never seen before...

Why not? Under the right circumstances.