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A curious thought about Katrina .....

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Angel4Truth

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Many christians believe that we are in the last days of the church age and that Christs return is not far off . Many have been watching the signs given by Christ and watching the labor pains grow more intense and closer together . (weird weather , earthquakes , signs in the heavens etcc.. ) Many are also watching events in Israel and the recent push by Americas President and Secretary of State to force Sharon to give up control of Gaza and force its residents to leave their homes in the name of "peace " .

Many believers are also familiar with Gods promises in the bible that all those bless Israel will be blessed and all those who curse them will be cursed , and that those nations who seek to divide His land will suffer His wrath and also those nations who burden themselves with Jerusalem will be " cut to pieces" . ( I will post relevant verses about these after the posting at the end of the writing)Anyway ....

A Friend sent me an email written by a Rabbi that I thought was interesting concering the recent events in Israel and the Hurricane that hit Americas southern coastline . Just wondering what you all think about it and the verses concerning Israel and wondering if you see a connection . Just a thought .

The email I received :Rebbe Nachman of Breslev teaches that we must constantly search for the Divine message in all the events of our lives, since Hashem speaks to us by way of our environment.

At the time of this writing, hurricane Katrina has been declared a national emergency in the USA; her winds now exceed 175 mph (nearly 300 km/hour). She's a mere one hundred miles from the US coast, and approaching at a foreboding 13 miles per hour. Authorities in Louisiana have ordered hundreds of thousands of people to flee from their homes.

Katrina is hitting just as the bulldozers are completing the destruction of Gush Katif. The Talmud teaches that Hashem administers the world according to the "ATFAT" principle, in other words, "a turn for a turn" (for an elaboration of the ATFAT principle, see Chapter Six of The Trail to Tranquility). My heart tells me that there's a link between the forced expulsion of 8500 people from their blood, sweat, and tear-soaked homes in Israeli Gaza and between the nearly 850,000 people who are forced to flee from their homes in Louisiana. Sharon, at the prodding of the American government, has destroyed hallowed centers of prayer, Torah learning, and settlement in the Land of Israel. Hashem isn't wasting much time in showing His wrath. In fact, Katrina has chosen Ms. Rice's home state as a target; I humbly believe that the unfortunate people of Louisiana can blame Mr. Bush and Ms. Rice for their misfortune. This is a classic ATFAT situation: He who creates exiles in the Holy Land, will have a hundred-fold exiles in his own land.

A bizarre turn of events - for weeks, the media was savoring over the confrontations between Jewish settlers and Jewish soldiers; now, similar pictures are pouring over the wire from New Orleans. In the above photo, courtesy of Reuters, a National Guardsman holds back people seeking refuge in the Louisiana Superdome, Sunday afternoon.A coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences.

Katrina, written ÷èøéðä in Hebrew, has a numerical equivalent of 374. Two relevant passages in Torah share the exact numerical equivalent of 374 also: øòä âîìåê, or "They have done you evil" (see Gen. 50:17), and éí áéáùä, or "The sea upon land" (see Exodus 14:15). The former passage may be an indication as to the spiritual cause of Katrina, while the latter passage describes the physical manifestation.

Mr. Bush and Ms. Rice, I implore you to repent, to ask Hashem's forgiveness for destroying a flourishing part of Israel. Cancel all your demands for further territorial concessions in Israel. If by your initiative more Jews are rendered homeless, G-d forbid, I shudder to think of what could happen. Please take Katrina very seriously, for she is a no-nonsense messenger from The Almighty. ~~~~

Relevant bible verses :

Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
Matthew 24
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[a]these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Parable of the Fig Tree

Matthew 24:32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it[d] is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.


Note: Throughout scripture , Israel is pictured as the fig tree , untill there was a fig tree (Israel) again , it couldnt become "tender" or sprout untill the jews returned to their promised land from all over the world .

Also note contextually , Christ is speaking throughout this chapter of events that show the end , so "this" generation would clearly be the one who sees all these things coming to pass , and never before this generation was the world close to hearing the gospel all over the world but thanks to missionaries in the 20th century , this is almost complete. So THIS generation today is who sees all these things , not possible before this one .

No One Knows the Day or Hour

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[e] but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour[f] your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.


The verses about Israel and nations who divide it :

Ezekiel 37:22
and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.

Daniel 11:39
Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.


Joel 3
God Judges the Nations
1 “For behold, in those days and at that time,
When I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations,
And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
And I will enter into judgment with them there
On account of My people, My heritage Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
They have also divided up My land.

Zechariah 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
 

Soul_Searcher

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Angel, is this your curious thought? "Mr. Bush and Ms. Rice, I implore you to repent, to ask Hashem's forgiveness for destroying a flourishing part of Israel. Cancel all your demands for further territorial concessions in Israel."

That Israel pulling back caused Katrina?
 
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Angel4Truth

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KAG said:
So you're saying the hurricane was because New Orleans pressured the government of Isreal to give some land to the Palestenians... hmm.

Actually you should read what I posted , I gave no opinion whatever . In fact , I asked for opinions on what was sent to me . Want to start all over?
 
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Angel4Truth

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Soul_Searcher said:
Angel, is this your curious thought? "Mr. Bush and Ms. Rice, I implore you to repent, to ask Hashem's forgiveness for destroying a flourishing part of Israel. Cancel all your demands for further territorial concessions in Israel."

That Israel pulling back caused Katrina?
No , i was wondering what people thought about the email i posted in light of what scripture says would happen to nations who burden themselves with trying to solve the issues with Israel by dividing Gods land in light of what scripture says and the recent push by Americas president and Secretary of state for Israel to do just that and then right as they are destroying the homes of those forced out of them , america has many forced out of theirs . What you posted above is not my thoughts or adress to them but the writer of the email , see everything between ~~~ is not my words but what i received and asked for opinion on .
 
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Vastavus

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First of all, Christians have always thought 'the coming of Christ' was near.

Second of all, Israel has been divided for the past 2,000 years, Israel has been divided before that time, and Israel will be divided after our time. The world spins onward. I would hope people would see that in the grand scheme of things, our petty human political clashes mean nothing. We are but one speices, on one planet, revolving around one star, in a but a single galaxy. The universe will not end because of a few miles of desert is changing hands from one 'chosen people' to another.

I think the Israel argument ultimatly comes down to one factor:

What do you value more, human life and peace, or pride and nostalgia?
 
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Garnet2727

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I've seen "curious notions" posted all over the place by believers. Various ideas like the destruction was caused by homosexuality, Mardi Gras, the US policies in Israel and Iraq. Notions that this is a wake up call by God to repent. Ideas that this is the "beginning of the end." Mississippi was smitten because of the off-shore gambling. It's all part of God's great plan that we can't understand.

The effect of these kinds of things on me is that I find it sad that the most ferverent and sincere believers cannot understand how these notions paint God as cruel and un-loving. The destruction from Katrina is immense. Yet somehow, it was deserved? :mad:

To me, all these kinds of things are blaming the victim and using God as a sledgehammer to swat a fly.
 
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Vastavus

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Garnet2727 said:
I've seen "curious notions" posted all over the place by believers. Various ideas like the destruction was caused by homosexuality, Mardi Gras, the US policies in Israel and Iraq. Notions that this is a wake up call by God to repent. Ideas that this is the "beginning of the end." Mississippi was smitten because of the off-shore gambling. It's all part of God's great plan that we can't understand.

The effect of these kinds of things on me is that I find it sad that the most ferverent and sincere believers cannot understand how these notions paint God as cruel and un-loving. The destruction from Katrina is immense. Yet somehow, it was deserved? :mad:

To me, all these kinds of things are blaming the victim and using God as a sledgehammer to swat a fly.

I couldn't agree more. How can people watch these children cry as corpses rot in the streets, people staving and suffering, and say it was deserved? Which sick frame of mind produces thoughts like these? It is disgusting.
 
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radorth

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A more logical "explanation" is that nothing gets God more attention than a major disaster. Nothing else makes more people come to church, as on 9/11. Nothing better makes people inside and outside the church come together, to reach out to each other and God, to look at their silly and self-absorbed priorities, and appreciate what they do have. There was a huge revival in California just after the 1906 SF earthquake.

I'm surprised God doesn't allow more evils and disasters to overtake us, speaking logically, but he is doubtless more merciful than strictly logical.

Rad
 
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KAG

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Angel4Truth said:
Actually you should read what I posted , I gave no opinion whatever . In fact , I asked for opinions on what was sent to me . Want to start all over?

Sorry about that, I guess I skimmed a little :blush:. It gets very frustruating when people suggest disasters like the one at New Orleans are punishment from "God", so I guess my anger should be directed at the rabbi.

Once again, sorry
 
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z3ro

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radorth said:
A more logical "explanation" is that nothing gets God more attention than a major disaster. Nothing else makes more people come to church, as on 9/11. Nothing better makes people inside and outside the church come together, to reach out to each other and God, to look at their silly and self-absorbed priorities, and appreciate what they do have. There was a huge revival in California just after the 1906 SF earthquake.

I'm surprised God doesn't allow more evils and disasters to overtake us, speaking logically, but he is doubtless more merciful than strictly logical.

Rad

If your god will kill thousands to make some people follow him, he is not a god I would want to follow.
 
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radorth

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z3ro said:
If your god will kill thousands to make some people follow him, he is not a god I would want to follow.

Yes we know that but ironically you have made a more subjective, moral argument based on unproven assumptions The question is how many people would logically benefit the most. My point is more objective, for even a secular history of the church will prove my premise that people don't serve God when all is well.

The other problem with your argument is that it assumes life here is the only life and physical death marks the end of existence. Naturally if there is an afterlife, then God would and should be most concerned with that.

Right?

Rad
 
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FadingWhispers3

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Hey I'll be the last person to think anything good comes from GW, but even I won't say that God unleased his fury on so many people just because of his actions regarding Isreal. Although I do believe in some sort of butterfly effect where we are all connected in cause and effect, I disbelieve this kind of connection. Two wrongs make no right. They make two wrongs.
 
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Ben Borg Again

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Speaking to a large crowd in South Philadelphia tonight, Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan suggested that the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina was divine punishment for the violence America had inflicted on Iraq.

"New Orleans is the first of the cities going to tumble down... unless America changes its course," Farrakhan said.

"It is the wickedness of the people of America and the government of America that is bringing the wrath of God down," he told several hundred people at Tinsley Temple United Methodist Church.

His remarks were enthusiastically received.
 
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StainedClassKing

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Angel4Truth said:
Actually you should read what I posted , I gave no opinion whatever . In fact , I asked for opinions on what was sent to me . Want to start all over?

Well, to tell you what I think. If God wants to send a message, then a city on the coast getting hit by a hurricane isn't very impresive at all as cities on the coast get hit all the time for no appearent reason outside of the weather.

Now if Dallas got hit by a hurricane, I would say maybe we neeed to take notice.
 
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ClaireZ

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An e-mail like this just puts some people's views out there and pretend they come from God. That would be creating God in our image, instead of us being created in God's image.

The people of New Orleans were not involved in any way with what has occured in Israel. If God wanted to punish the government for it's policy, He could have had the hurricane hit Washington, D.C.

Or instead of wiping out a whole lot of innocent people he could have instead killed those responsible.
 
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