A cure for cancer?

[ThatRobGuy]

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That's part of the problem with cancer research, it doesn't behave like other diseases do.

There have been researched therapies that have shown a lot of promise in certain controlled environments like labs, that end up being a bust when moved forward to stage 2 & 3 clinical trials.

And then others that were basically discovered by accident and sort of fell into researchers' laps like this one (and are still used to this day):
Sometimes, drugs are discovered by accident. For example, in the early 1940s, an explosion exposed sailors to poisonous mustard gas. Doctors found that these sailors had low white blood cell counts. They began treating Hodgkin lymphoma with a byproduct of mustard gas known as nitrogen mustard. The drug meclorethamine (Mustargen), for example, is nitrogen mustard. Hodgkin lymphoma is a cancer of the lymphatic system involving the white blood cells. Nitrogen mustards are still used as a cancer treatment today.

 

[Whyayeman]

It's near IR, not IR

Red light is 'near infra-red, but it is something else, presumably a longer wavelength that infra-red. That would be in the range known as micro-wave radiation. Micro-wave ovens work by beaming radiation at a frequency which excites water molecules.

I am beginning to see a problem.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It's near IR, not IR. Near IR can penetrate up to 100 mm into the body. This is enough to get to bones and organs. So it is not just skin cancers that can be treated.

Near-IR *IS* IR. It is the low wavelength (high-frequency/energy) sub-spectrum of the infrared closest to the visibile. Wavelengths below 2 or 3 microns. (The boundaries of "near/mid/far"-IR are fuzzy as is the boundary between far-IR and the microwave bands. (We could also talk about the overlap with "terahertz radiation" and "sub-mm radiation" as well.)

 

[Aussie Pete]

Near-IR *IS* IR. It is the low wavelength (high-frequency/energy) sub-spectrum of the infrared closest to the visibile. Wavelengths below 2 or 3 microns. (The boundaries of "near/mid/far"-IR are fuzzy as is the boundary between far-IR and the microwave bands. (We could also talk about the overlap with "terahertz radiation" and "sub-mm radiation" as well.)

Yes, I looked it up on Encyclopaedia Britannica. I don't know if there is a specific frequency that penetrates the body better than other frequencies. It would not be hard to tune a frequency generator for best effect. The report also does not say the amount of power required either. That also may require fine tuning.

It would be great if this research could be fast tracked. Since no pharmaceuticals are involved, it may be relatively quick.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Red light is 'near infra-red, but it is something else, presumably a longer wavelength that infra-red. That would be in the range known as micro-wave radiation. Micro-wave ovens work by beaming radiation at a frequency which excites water molecules.

I am beginning to see a problem.

Near IR is in the terahertz range. Microwaves are in the gigahertz range. Microwave ovens are 1000 watts plus. Microwave heating was discovered by accident. A radar researcher had a block of chocolate in his pocket. It melted when he went past a device he was testing. He was not affected himself.

The power levels required for treatment will obviously be closely monitored. The NIR is not intended to affect cells directly. It is used to excite the dye molecule used in imaging. The energy required to excite a molecule should be minuscule compared to a microwave oven. I was exposed to microwave radiation for over 3 years while I was in the Navy. I'm 72 and still alive and kicking.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Isaiah 45:7
King James Version

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.​

 

[Hans Blaster]

Yes, I looked it up on Encyclopaedia Britannica. I don't know if there is a specific frequency that penetrates the body better than other frequencies. It would not be hard to tune a frequency generator for best effect. The report also does not say the amount of power required either. That also may require fine tuning.

I can't read the scientific article right now to see how narrow the activation band is, but for near-IR, you don't need a frequency generator (it's more like really red visible light than radio/microwave). An IR laser or better, sunlight filtered through a near-IR filter would do.

It would be great if this research could be fast tracked. Since no pharmaceuticals are involved, it may be relatively quick.

I wouldn't count on that. The Rice U. version of the PR piece had links to earlier (and substantially similar) work for variety of other nasty cell times (fungal infections, bacteria) and no hints that they even know how to distinguish for the "hammer molecule" between "good" and "bad" cells in the same petri dish. (See the cartoon previously posted.)

 

[Nithavela]

I can't read the scientific article right now to see how narrow the activation band is, but for near-IR, you don't need a frequency generator (it's more like really red visible light than radio/microwave). An IR laser or better, sunlight filtered through a near-IR filter would do.

Wouldn't normal sunlight activate it too, then?

 

[Nithavela]

Isaiah 45:7​

King James Version​

​

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.​

But not disease, though. That's totally on satan.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I can't read the scientific article right now to see how narrow the activation band is, but for near-IR, you don't need a frequency generator (it's more like really red visible light than radio/microwave). An IR laser or better, sunlight filtered through a near-IR filter would do.


I wouldn't count on that. The Rice U. version of the PR piece had links to earlier (and substantially similar) work for variety of other nasty cell times (fungal infections, bacteria) and no hints that they even know how to distinguish for the "hammer molecule" between "good" and "bad" cells in the same petri dish. (See the cartoon previously posted.)

My understanding is that the dye markers attach themselves to cancerous cells. They do not attach to normal cells. The dye molecules are then excited to destroy the cell walls of the cancer cells. Do you know how much power it takes for the NIR to penetrate 100mm? I do not. That's why I think it must be regulated. If it were so easy, you could simply inject the dye marker into a patient and let them sunbathe for a while.

Professor Tour has been working on nano machines for a very long time. If you read some of his earlier research, it may help to understand the most recent developments.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Wouldn't normal sunlight activate it too, then?

No, normal sunlight does not penetrate far enough into the body to be effective on anything but surface skin.

 

[Strong in Him]

You’ve failed to take my point: cancer is curable just when it doesn’t matter anymore.

It matters for the people who have it.
People have been saying we are in end times since Jesus' ascension - we're still here. Just think what would have happened if, 50 years ago, people had listened to my vicar and said "we're in end times, there's no point bothering." What inventions have we got now that we didn't have then?

 

[Nithavela]

No, normal sunlight does not penetrate far enough into the body to be effective on anything but surface skin.

Since this is a treatment for melanoma, that still might work. Besides, I'd be worried about the molecule bonding with healthy cells and then getting activated by being in the sun.

 

[Larniavc]

The much maligned Professor James Tour's research team may have found a cure for cancer. Professor Tour is pilloried by the science community because he criticises OOL research and rejects the theory of evolution. God blesses this man. Maybe his detractors will finally be silenced by this recent research breakthrough.

James Tour Lab Hammers Cancer – CEH

crev.info

Fantastic! Which cancers?

 

[Aussie Pete]

Fantastic! Which cancers?

So far, melanoma, in which I am interested as Australia has the world's worst rate. However, there is no reason why the treatment could not be applied to other cancers. As long as a molecular marker can be applied to the cancer cell, so can the treatment.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Since this is a treatment for melanoma, that still might work. Besides, I'd be worried about the molecule bonding with healthy cells and then getting activated by being in the sun.

Melanoma is only a problem if it is ignored and spreads into the rest of the body. That takes about 6 weeks, which is not long. I'm rusty on the exact details, but I understand that the markers are designed to lock onto cancer cells and ignore healthy cells. Chemo and radiation kill pretty much everything, including the immune system. The new treatment looks promising. I hope it works. Cancer is a terrible blight.

 

[Nithavela]

Melanoma is only a problem if it is ignored and spreads into the rest of the body. That takes about 6 weeks, which is not long. I'm rusty on the exact details, but I understand that the markers are designed to lock onto cancer cells and ignore healthy cells. Chemo and radiation kill pretty much everything, including the immune system. The new treatment looks promising. I hope it works. Cancer is a terrible blight.

At the point where Melanoma are still localised and haven't spread anywhere, they can just be cut out, though. Though this treatment might reduce the chance of cells being overlooked? I don't know, this is still far too early to make any judgement calls.

 

[Hans Blaster]

My understanding is that the dye markers attach themselves to cancerous cells. They do not attach to normal cells. The dye molecules are then excited to destroy the cell walls of the cancer cells.

Could be, but there is no such information provided in the Rice PR piece or in the abstract of the "Nature Chemistry" paper.

Do you know how much power it takes for the NIR to penetrate 100mm? I do not. That's why I think it must be regulated. If it were so easy, you could simply inject the dye marker into a patient and let them sunbathe for a while.

Any medical device or treatment would be regulated. The abstract actually provides the exposure used to trigger the "hammers".

Professor Tour has been working on nano machines for a very long time. If you read some of his earlier research, it may help to understand the most recent developments.

I have read some of the PR items for earlier reports from the Tour group.

 

[Aussie Pete]

At the point where Melanoma are still localised and haven't spread anywhere, they can just be cut out, though. Though this treatment might reduce the chance of cells being overlooked? I don't know, this is still far too early to make any judgement calls.

Professor Tour has been working on nano machines for years. He and his team developed machines that can drill into cells to destroy them. The idea is that a molecular marker attaches to the cancer cell. I do not remember how this is done. The NIR excites the molecule which then destroys the cancer cell wall. One limitation of the technique to date has been that visible light does not penetrate far into the body. NIR can penetrate 100mm. That's enough to reach bones as well as organs. There are practical issues to resolve, of course. However, it seems far preferable to invasive surgery, debilitating chemo and radiation therapies.

 

[jayem]

Immunotherapy to treat melanoma has been around for several years. Pembrolizumab (proprietary name, Keytruda) was FDA approved for use in melanoma in 2014. It works by unleashing "killer" T-cells. Melanoma, and certain other malignancies express proteins that block T-lymphocytes from attacking and destroying them. Pembro is a monoclonal antibody that blocks the blockers. Thus allowing T-cells to kill the cancer cells. It's been fairly successful. If anyone remembers, former Pres. Jimmy Carter was diagnosed with advanced malignant melanoma in 2015. He had metastases in his liver and brain. Along with surgery to remove the liver mets, and radiation to the brain, he received several courses of pembrolizumab. Remarkably, he became tumor-free. He's lived 8 years after treatment for a disease formerly having a life expectancy of about 6 months. Not all melanoma patients have such an outcome. Even with several immunotherapeutic drugs available, about half of patients don't fully respond.

Re. this dye/IR treatment...I'd also wonder if near-IR radiation would penetrate deeply enough into body cavities to eliminate metastases. And there must be long term studies to assess recurrence. Melanoma has a nasty tendency to recur, even if the initial response is favorable.