A conversation about unity.

[concretecamper]

But some are no longer around, or. have become disempowered.

Not all

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I am a deacon in my Baptist church in a town right outside of Houston. There is my church, a Methodist church, and a Catholic Church within a couple of blocks. We all talk to each other, fellowship with each other, and even have charitable events together. However when it is time to break bread, as Jesus commanded and as Acts 2:42 states, only the Catholic Church is not welcoming because of their closed communion policy.

Jesus stated that where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name there He is so every one that is gathered in His name whether in a building or not are part of His church. If the Catholic Church wishes unity among the churches and Christians then there is much that they need to change. We still love our Catholic brothers and will continue to fellowship with them simply because that is the call of every Christian.

The Catholic Church affirms that all baptised persons who believe in Christ are in some way joined to her (cf. Unitatis Redintegratio, §3). However, the Eucharist is not merely a symbol of unity—it is its culmination and visible expression of union and communion in Christ. The Church’s discipline of “closed communion” is not a rejection of others’ faith, but a safeguard of the sacrament’s integrity. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, “Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation… have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness” (CCC §1400). Because the Eucharist signifies full communion in faith, sacraments, and ecclesial governance, it cannot be shared where that unity does not yet exist (Redemptionis Sacramentum, §84).


You rightly cite Matthew 18:20, and Christ is present where believers gather in His name. Yet His presence in the Eucharist is of a different order—“substantial,” “real,” and “true” (CCC §1374)—requiring full communion with the Church He founded. The Catholic Church earnestly desires unity, but this unity must be rooted in truth and sacramental fidelity. As Pope Benedict XVI affirmed, “The Eucharist is intrinsically linked to full communion with the Church” (Sacramentum Caritatis, §56). Your love for your Catholic brethren is appreciated, and the Church reciprocates that love while remaining faithful to the deposit of faith entrusted to her by Christ.

 

[ARBITER01]

The term church refers, in its primary theological sense, to the community of Christian believers united in faith and sacramental life, and secondarily to the physical building designated for public worship. Etymologically, church derives from the Old English cirice, itself rooted in the West Germanic kirika, which was borrowed from the Greek kyriakē (κυριακή), meaning “of the Lord” or “belonging to the Lord,” a feminine adjective formed from kyrios (κύριος), “Lord.” This term originally denoted the “Lord’s house” (kyriakē oikia) and was adopted into early Christian usage to describe both the liturgical assembly and the sacred space in which it gathered. The semantic evolution reflects both ecclesiological and architectural dimensions of Christian tradition.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all immersed into one body,....

Christians are joined together as a body, not a church/building.

I know there has been some discussion about unity this and unity that in this forum section, but I don't see GOD a bit worried about it. He knows who is His and who isn't, and it seems that is good enough for Him.

 

[Hentenza]

The Catholic Church affirms that all baptised persons who believe in Christ are in some way joined to her (cf. Unitatis Redintegratio, §3). However, the Eucharist is not merely a symbol of unity—it is its culmination and visible expression of union and communion in Christ. The Church’s discipline of “closed communion” is not a rejection of others’ faith, but a safeguard of the sacrament’s integrity. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, “Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation… have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness” (CCC §1400). Because the Eucharist signifies full communion in faith, sacraments, and ecclesial governance, it cannot be shared where that unity does not yet exist (Redemptionis Sacramentum, §84).


You rightly cite Matthew 18:20, and Christ is present where believers gather in His name. Yet His presence in the Eucharist is of a different order—“substantial,” “real,” and “true” (CCC §1374)—requiring full communion with the Church He founded. The Catholic Church earnestly desires unity, but this unity must be rooted in truth and sacramental fidelity. As Pope Benedict XVI affirmed, “The Eucharist is intrinsically linked to full communion with the Church” (Sacramentum Caritatis, §56). Your love for your Catholic brethren is appreciated, and the Church reciprocates that love while remaining faithful to the deposit of faith entrusted to her by Christ.

Thanks for the primer but I was Catholic so I’m aware. My complaint remains though since the Bible exhorts Christians to break bread together. Transubstantiation is one of those deal breaker Catholic doctrines for me.

 

[concretecamper]

Thanks for the primer but I was Catholic so I’m aware. My complaint remains though since the Bible exhorts Christians to break bread together. Transubstantiation is one of those deal breaker Catholic doctrines for me.

If you believe that the Eucharist is His Body and Blood, you'd be Catholic and would be able to receive. If you reject this Scriptural teaching, don't complain.

 

[Hentenza]

If you believe that the Eucharist is His Body and Blood, you'd be Catholic and would be able to receive. If you reject this Scriptural teaching, don't complain.

The scriptural teaching is NOT transubstantiation.

“and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” In the same way He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11‬:‭24‬-‭26‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 Corinthians 11:24-26 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” In the same way He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new c | New American Standard Bi

and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” In the same way He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new c

bible.com

Jesus described communion as a remembrance of Him and nothing here points to a literal meaning. In fact Jesus was still alive and wearing His body and His blood was still circulating in His body keeping Him alive. His sacrifice did not come until His crucifixion. Jesus, after all, was fully human. The doctrine of transubstantiation was a later development.

And I do believe the symbolism of communion so I don’t have to complain.

 

[concretecamper]

The scriptural teaching is NOT transubstantiation.

It IS His Body, He said so.

Jesus described communion as a remembrance

I would suggest you research and learn what word the rememberance meant to the Jews at that time.

 

[Hentenza]

It IS His Body, He said so.

Yep. While He was still wearing it. It’s symbolic not literal.

I would suggest you research and learn what word the rememberance meant to the Jews at that time.

Why, you don’t know? Here, I’ll give you a hint.

ἀνάμνησις, -εως, ἡ, (ἀναμιμνήσκω), a remembering, recollection: εἰς τ. ἐμήνἀνάμνησιν to call me (affectionately) to remembrance, Luke 22:19 [WH reject the passage]; 1 Corinthians 11:24f, ἐν αὐταῖς (namely, θυσίαις) ἀνάμνησις ἁμαρτιῶνin offering sacrifices there is a remembrance of sins, i. e. the memory of sins committed is revived by the sacrifices, Hebrews 10:3. In Greek writings from Plato down.

 

[concretecamper]

Yep. While He was still wearing it. It’s symbolic not literal.

Hmm, should I follow your interpretation or the entirety of Church Father and Scripture? Sorry, you're out

ἀνάμνησις, -εως, ἡ, (ἀναμιμνήσκω), a remembering, recollection: εἰς τ. ἐμήνἀνάμνησιν to call me (affectionately) to remembrance, Luke 22:19 [WH reject the passage]; 1 Corinthians 11:24f, ἐν αὐταῖς (namely, θυσίαις) ἀνάμνησις ἁμαρτιῶνin offering sacrifices there is a remembrance of sins, i. e. the memory of sins committed is revived by the sacrifices, Hebrews 10:3. In Greek writings from Plato down.

Try again. AI can't save you

Edit: I'm feeling charitable, research how the Jews viewed the celebration of the Passover

 

[Hentenza]

Hmm, should I follow your interpretation of the entirety of Church Father and Scripture? Sorry, you're out

Mmmm should we follow the only church that believes in transubstantiation? Sorry you are out.

Try again. AI can't save you

Edit: I'm feeling charitable, research how the Jews looked at the celebration of the Passover

That was not from AI. I don‘t use it. The definition comes from Strong’s G364. You can either address it or not, your choice. Remembrance (anamnesis) means to remember, the memory of, not the actual.

I don’t need your charity so please give to those in need instead.

 

[ARBITER01]

Oh yea,..... feel that unity.

 

[Hentenza]

Oh yea,..... feel that unity.

Arrogance brings about disunity.

 

[concretecamper]

Ephesians 4:5

There is only One

 

[concretecamper]

Arrogance brings about disunity.

That's the claim those who are unsure about the validity of their faith cast towards those who are sure

 

[Hentenza]

Ephesians 4:5

There is only One

“Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Ephesians 4:1-7 Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in | New American Standard Bible - N

Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in

bible.com

Only arrogance would deny the validity of the faith of all that profess Christ.

 

[Hentenza]

That's the claim those who are unsure about the validity of their faith cast towards those who are sure

I’m sure.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Christians are joined together as a body, not a church/building.

Since "church" doesn't mean "building" I do not understand why you persist with the contrast between body and building. It is inaccurate and misleading.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Thanks for the primer but I was Catholic so I’m aware. My complaint remains though since the Bible exhorts Christians to break bread together. Transubstantiation is one of those deal breaker Catholic doctrines for me.

Then why do you want to receive communion in a Catholic Church? I know that in many Protestant denominations the bread & juice are regarded as symbols without substantial reality as the body and blood of Christ and knowing that I do not want to receive bread and wine/juice in such denominations because to do so would imply that I shared their view of what communion is, and I do not.

 

[rebornfree]

We have to have the same basic beliefs. Those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and the churches which preach salvation by grace through faith, are already united in spirit (Spirit) imo. The superficial differences (type of music, [in]formality of service, etc.) need not divide us. If we go away from the fundamentals of the Gospel, though, then we need to return to them otherwise disunity is inevitable. However the more important question is: are we still united with the Lord?

 

[Hentenza]

Then why do you want to receive communion in a Catholic Church? I know that in many Protestant denominations the bread & juice are regarded as symbols without substantial reality as the body and blood of Christ and knowing that I do not want to receive bread and wine/juice in such denominations because to do so would imply that I shared their view of what communion is, and I do not.

Is a matter of unity and fellowship as Is called for in scripture. Other than the way your cracker is made the look is still the same and the remembrance of our Jesus sacrifice for our sins is the same. Sometimes we loose ourselves in our individual theologies and forget about loving our fellow Christian. Christ did not die in the cross for only members of a particular church but for all of us. When you take communion your thoughts and prayers should remain cemented in Jesus not in if my theology matches the others.

And also, why would you want to deny communion to fellow Christian?