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And, again, you missed the MOST important which is unity in Christ. He happens to be the reason for anything we do and the existential reason for ALL of our churches. Do you think that your definition of unity is going to get you to Heaven any different than us poor Protestants?
This may not be one of those teachable moments, but it might still be wise to pray that people will come to an understanding of unity the way God would like to see it embraced.I know when Jesus is teaching me things, and this is not one of those times.
The simplicity of abiding in Christ <---His body, the Catholic/Universal Church:Unity requires three things at least.
Protestants vary in their views of all three so unity with all the various Protestant groups hasn't happened among the Protestants and one cannot expect unity with Catholics in that state.
- unity in doctrine
- unity in sacraments
- unity in governance
You mentioned that before - but if one is a Christian then one is in Christ and hence there is as much unity as that allows.And, again, you missed the MOST important which is unity in Christ.
Yet being a Christian doesn't mean we agree on doctrine, sacraments, and governance does it?He happens to be the reason for anything we do and the existential reason for ALL of our churches.
Why do you think that church unity has anything whatever to do with Protestants going to heaven?Do you think that your definition of unity is going to get you to Heaven any different than us poor Protestants?
And how much unity does that allow? The question is important because your post (that several of us here quoted and spoke to) was based on unity of doctrine and governance and other manmade principles. So is it you who doesn't allow unity because you place doctrine, etc., above all else? The church you attend?You mentioned that before - but if one is a Christian then one is in Christ and hence there is as much unity as that allows.
Yet being a Christian doesn't mean we agree on doctrine, sacraments, and governance does it?
Why do you think that church unity has anything whatever to do with Protestants going to heaven?
As long as you're sure.I know when Jesus is teaching me things, and this is not one of those times.
So, when Christ commands us to do so because He has not put limits on Grace and Forgiveness, who are we to say we don't need it or it is valueless, to the point of rejecting and despising the Eucharist?Paul says that we - believers - have EVERY spiritual blessing in Christ, Ephesians 1:3.
The condition for those blessings is being in Christ, not receiving the Eucharist.
I imagine not, and I hope you never see it. He became very ill; growled like an wild animal, and fled from the Altar. I was serving Mass with Pastor that Sunday, assisting with the distribution; very disturbing for all present.I don't understand.
“This do in remembrance of Me” is exactly what we are doing. Christ didn’t suggest there was anything magical or supernatural in the partaking.So, when Christ commands us to do so because He has not put limits on Grace and Forgiveness, who are we to say we don't need it or it is valueless, to the point of rejecting and despising the Eucharist?
God, not the celebrant, but Christ, Himself.Does God make the bread His body and the wine His blood, or does man do it?
Ageed.
The other synod, this is heretical, heterodox and invalid. LCMS, LCC and all the members of the ILC condemn this practice.When church was shut down because of covid and I had to take communion at home, I decided to go with Lutheran instruction on how to do that. This is the short video I went by:
I doubt that anyone has said they reject and despise the Eucharist.So, when Christ commands us to do so because He has not put limits on Grace and Forgiveness, who are we to say we don't need it or it is valueless, to the point of rejecting and despising the Eucharist?
I believe Paul is saying the same thing here:And, again, you missed the MOST important which is unity in Christ. He happens to be the reason for anything we do and the existential reason for ALL of our churches.
For starters, the Primacy of the Pope; he is the Bishop of Rome, primate of their communion, but no more than that. Another big one is their emphasis on works and earning merit for ones self, a loved one or a departed loved one. They still grant indulgences. Requesting the intercession of saints.What about it would they find unacceptable? Is it far removed from the rest of Protestant theology?
What do you mean as that allows?You mentioned that before - but if one is a Christian then one is in Christ and hence there is as much unity as that allows.
Nope but that should not preclude unity. Saying that your church’s teachings are the only one is elitist and promotes disunity. I don’t care for your church’s teachings, although both of us are orthodox Christians. I don’t see your church’s governance in the Holy Scriptures and some of your church’s doctrines are questionable at best.Yet being a Christian doesn't mean we agree on doctrine, sacraments, and governance does it?
Did you not read the question? Here it is again.Why do you think that church unity has anything whatever to do with Protestants going to heaven?
Wow.For starters, the Primacy of the Pope; he is the Bishop of Rome, primate of their communion, but no more than that. Another big one is their emphasis on works and earning merit for ones self, a loved one or a departed loved one. They still grant indulgences. Requesting the intercession of saints.
The Eucharist, Baptism, Confession and Holy Absolution, and even the value of the divine office are, for the most part, aligned with Scripture.
From what I'm hearing man has to perform a certain ritual for the bread and wine to become the body and the blood.God, not the celebrant, but Christ, Himself.
What I mean is why is it accessible to someone possessed by a demon, but barred to a Christian indwelt by the Holy Spirit?I imagine not, and I hope you never see it. He became very ill; growled like an wild animal, and fled from the Altar. I was serving Mass with Pastor that Sunday, assisting with the distribution; very disturbing for all present.
Experience will tell you. How much unity do you have with Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, Baptists, Presbyterians and so forth? Not enough to be in the same church?And how much unity does that allow?
Those things are divine gifts, not, as you are soon to say "man made".The question is important because your post (that several of us here quoted and spoke to) was based on unity of doctrine and governance
The sacraments are gifts from God; it would be at best discourteous to denigrate them.and other manmade principles. So is it you who doesn't allow unity because you place doctrine, etc., above all else? The church you attend?
Because you believe the sacraments to be salvific, don’t you?
According to what I looked up there are at least dozens of synods just in North America. And obviously various Lutheran synods reject other Lutheran synods. Looks to be a bit of a mess.The other synod, this is heretical, heterodox and invalid. LCMS, LCC and all the members of the ILC condemn this practice.
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