A Christian Cinematic Universe?

[Harry Larry]

I was at a dinner with a friend and his family a few days back, and had a very interesting encounter. In fact, it is what motivated me to break out of my little introvert exile and find this place online, something that is, well, not really like me (countryside isolation becomes a very comfy blanket after a few years).

The young person had mentioned that a "trend" on online video and image sites that has become pretty big is more biblically correct portrayals of angels, and was showing another young person images of the wheels-in-wheels and six winged depictions, all of them very well made. I guess they noticed me looking at the images, too, because they started asking me about the images. For some time, we talked about biblical stories (the basics, I am no scholar), and at some point, one of them dropped the big question: "Why don't they make movies and games about this just like they do comic book characters?" And honestly, I had no good answer. Why has nobody picked up the ball on this? Many of my former students (retired teacher) love characters like Castiel, an actual angel, in the TV show Supernatural, even though the show really seems to be a typical monster-of-the-week action series, and there are other characters and stories like that out there, very popular. Kids are craving communities that sound remarkably like what I know from church in my own youth. And it seems like the towering giant that is Disney has finally begun to run out of steam with things like Star Wars and Marvel. Maybe it is time for something rooted in Christian lore?

Of course I know that this is not an easy thing to create, but it seems like every kid under the age of 20 knows how to do at least some level of media stuff, and I see youngsters doing amazing stuff just for fun. I am honestly thinking about researching it a bit to see what it would take to do some quality stuff, even if on the low end, to create a Christian Cinematic / Media Universe (though I do not like that name), perhaps hiring talented youngsters with too little good to do with their time. Something that builds more on deep thought and wholesome stories than just the bang-pow-crash stuff that I feel every movie or show is turning into these days.

What do you all think? Is it time for Christian media to move out of the cookie cutter budget movies and try something new? Something with deeper movies, novels, comics, even computer games? Or is it just the pipe dream of an old nut like me? I will try to add a poll but this is my first day on the board, so forgive me if I do not know what I do

 

[Harry Larry]

@Halbhh

 

[DragonFox91]

There's too much infighting amongst Christians for these to work.

When Movie comes out, half the Christians reject it b/c it doesn't fit their understanding of Christianity to an exact T. So you have the pagans rejecting it & half of Christianity rejecting it. So your audience is maybe 10% of what something like Marvel was.

That being said, I'd love to see it.

I'd love to see a return to historic epics in general. I'm tired of fantasy. Truth is stranger than fiction.

But it seems like your'e referring more to movies w/ strong Christian themes & messaging but are not necessarily historic?

 

[Harry Larry]

But it seems like your'e referring more to movies w/ strong Christian themes & messaging but are not necessarily historic?

I was more thinking of modern movies in the science fiction and fantasy genre, based on biblical stories. "Inspired by" is maybe the best phrase. The movies I know that try actually seem to lean a bit too heavily on forcing through a message. I think a good movie can set the right thoughts in motion without hammering people over the head with it. But as you noted, the market for such things might be a bit tricky?

 

[Halbhh]

Ah, the Ezekiel vision is familiar from Ezekiel chapters 1-3, so dramatic. And also these appear in chapter 10. In Ezekiel 10, the situation is what you learn in chapters 8 and 9....so, to read that you'd read at least Ezekiel chapters 8 through 10. If you do, then you see how very serious this is....

So that would need/deserve screenwriting that would be as serious as the text really....

It's a more difficult subject matter here than in the Flood Story for example, and in the Flood story movie that came out some years ago, which was entertaining and not terribly wrong (it had some invented things, but it didn't make the story into merely a mere tall tale or myth, but treated it seriously in the theme/meaning/spirit/moral side that is so crucial)...well if you saw it, then you know already. Here's the trailer though.

I think this 2 minute trailer might give some sense of that:

(you can click the full screen button on the lower right in the video)

I'm pointing this out to illustrate -- if someone did Ezekiel chapters, it would only be really good if they have at least that much effort at the very minimum to treat the subject matter seriously.... They'd need to read the full text through and really try to get things to fit the real meanings, such as about idolatry and how harmful it is and so on... That's my thought on making a movie from Ezekiel. It's...more involved than simpler stories, but...some people make movies that are more involved and nuanced, so that is possible to do I'd think.

In my view (having seen a wide variety of movies, and also having read through the bible fully), it's only good to do such a movie if someone profoundly respects the text. It should not be treated as if just mythical tall tales, but is very much about how sin brings death, yet God wants to save us from the natural end of our sins...

I was at a dinner with a friend and his family a few days back, and had a very interesting encounter. In fact, it is what motivated me to break out of my little introvert exile and find this place online, something that is, well, not really like me (countryside isolation becomes a very comfy blanket after a few years).

The young person had mentioned that a "trend" on online video and image sites that has become pretty big is more biblically correct portrayals of angels, and was showing another young person images of the wheels-in-wheels and six winged depictions, all of them very well made. I guess they noticed me looking at the images, too, because they started asking me about the images. For some time, we talked about biblical stories (the basics, I am no scholar), and at some point, one of them dropped the big question: "Why don't they make movies and games about this just like they do comic book characters?" And honestly, I had no good answer. Why has nobody picked up the ball on this? Many of my former students (retired teacher) love characters like Castiel, an actual angel, in the TV show Supernatural, even though the show really seems to be a typical monster-of-the-week action series, and there are other characters and stories like that out there, very popular. Kids are craving communities that sound remarkably like what I know from church in my own youth. And it seems like the towering giant that is Disney has finally begun to run out of steam with things like Star Wars and Marvel. Maybe it is time for something rooted in Christian lore?

Of course I know that this is not an easy thing to create, but it seems like every kid under the age of 20 knows how to do at least some level of media stuff, and I see youngsters doing amazing stuff just for fun. I am honestly thinking about researching it a bit to see what it would take to do some quality stuff, even if on the low end, to create a Christian Cinematic / Media Universe (though I do not like that name), perhaps hiring talented youngsters with too little good to do with their time. Something that builds more on deep thought and wholesome stories than just the bang-pow-crash stuff that I feel every movie or show is turning into these days.

What do you all think? Is it time for Christian media to move out of the cookie cutter budget movies and try something new? Something with deeper movies, novels, comics, even computer games? Or is it just the pipe dream of an old nut like me? I will try to add a poll but this is my first day on the board, so forgive me if I do not know what I do

 

[Halbhh]

Here's a movie I recommended here at CF once, but back then it was only on Amazon.

But now you can see it right on Youtube for free it looks like:

Polycarp, a disciple of John (John the beloved disciple of Christ our Lord).

 

[Halbhh]

There's too much infighting amongst Christians for these to work.

When Movie comes out, half the Christians reject it b/c it doesn't fit their understanding of Christianity to an exact T. So you have the pagans rejecting it & half of Christianity rejecting it. So your audience is maybe 10% of what something like Marvel was.

That being said, I'd love to see it.

I'd love to see a return to historic epics in general. I'm tired of fantasy. Truth is stranger than fiction.

But it seems like your'e referring more to movies w/ strong Christian themes & messaging but are not necessarily historic?

Do you mean like Ben Hur?

Or a mostly realism style but a mostly text based story:

 

[Harry Larry]

I looove the Noah movie, some of Crowe's best work, even if, or maybe because, it has a lot of reintepretation and artistic license. And I think those are important keystones to seeing Christianity as a source for stories. Most Christian stories in their more or less true form have been told and retold endlessly, but letting those stories inspire new stories, even if that means the new ones are pure fiction, seems like it could be the source of something interesting. I had some good talks with open-minded nerdy friends who helped some ideas take root, but that is just me. The bigger question is if it could promote more storytelling among Christians or those drawn by Christian-adjacent shows like Supernatural or the Constantine movie(s) with Keanu Reeves.

I'll be sure to watch Polycarp, and look out for Ben-Hur, too!

 

[DragonFox91]

I looove the Noah movie, some of Crowe's best work, even if, or maybe because, it has a lot of reintepretation and artistic license. And I think those are important keystones to seeing Christianity as a source for stories. Most Christian stories in their more or less true form have been told and retold endlessly, but letting those stories inspire new stories, even if that means the new ones are pure fiction, seems like it could be the source of something interesting. I had some good talks with open-minded nerdy friends who helped some ideas take root, but that is just me. The bigger question is if it could promote more storytelling among Christians or those drawn by Christian-adjacent shows like Supernatural or the Constantine movie(s) with Keanu Reeves.

I'll be sure to watch Polycarp, and look out for Ben-Hur, too!

There's a LOT in the OT I haven't seen movies of. They stick to Genesis & Exodus & leave out everything till Jesus w/ a couple exceptions.

I'm curious about the Polycarp movie too!

I've heard a lot of bad stuff about the Noah movie but really s/ watch it for myself - I think there's a few on here CF who like it.

 

[Larniavc]

I was at a dinner with a friend and his family a few days back, and had a very interesting encounter. In fact, it is what motivated me to break out of my little introvert exile and find this place online, something that is, well, not really like me (countryside isolation becomes a very comfy blanket after a few years).

The young person had mentioned that a "trend" on online video and image sites that has become pretty big is more biblically correct portrayals of angels, and was showing another young person images of the wheels-in-wheels and six winged depictions, all of them very well made. I guess they noticed me looking at the images, too, because they started asking me about the images. For some time, we talked about biblical stories (the basics, I am no scholar), and at some point, one of them dropped the big question: "Why don't they make movies and games about this just like they do comic book characters?" And honestly, I had no good answer. Why has nobody picked up the ball on this? Many of my former students (retired teacher) love characters like Castiel, an actual angel, in the TV show Supernatural, even though the show really seems to be a typical monster-of-the-week action series, and there are other characters and stories like that out there, very popular. Kids are craving communities that sound remarkably like what I know from church in my own youth. And it seems like the towering giant that is Disney has finally begun to run out of steam with things like Star Wars and Marvel. Maybe it is time for something rooted in Christian lore?

Of course I know that this is not an easy thing to create, but it seems like every kid under the age of 20 knows how to do at least some level of media stuff, and I see youngsters doing amazing stuff just for fun. I am honestly thinking about researching it a bit to see what it would take to do some quality stuff, even if on the low end, to create a Christian Cinematic / Media Universe (though I do not like that name), perhaps hiring talented youngsters with too little good to do with their time. Something that builds more on deep thought and wholesome stories than just the bang-pow-crash stuff that I feel every movie or show is turning into these days.

What do you all think? Is it time for Christian media to move out of the cookie cutter budget movies and try something new? Something with deeper movies, novels, comics, even computer games? Or is it just the pipe dream of an old nut like me? I will try to add a poll but this is my first day on the board, so forgive me if I do not know what I do

There is a thriving Christian movie scene that is uniformly awful to the majority of cinema goers.

The recent Russell Crowe Noah movie was supposed to be the launch of a Christian Prophet focussed group of films. It flopped and the plan was shelved.

Also for a movie to earn sequels it needs to have traction in China and a religious film won’t do that.

 

[Halbhh]

The recent Russell Crowe Noah movie was supposed to be the launch of a Christian Prophet focussed group of films. It flopped

Hmmm, interesting take, but I couldn't help but be curious about that side of it -- the revenues side, and here's what I see:

Box-Office Milestone: Biblical Epic ‘Noah’ Crosses $300 Million Globally​

Darren Aronofsky's film, opening in late March, is the No. 4 top-grossing film of the year.

Is that 'flopped'? (or, what does it take to be not a flop then in your view?)

Also, you said the movie was "supposed to be the launch of a Christian Prophet focussed group of films." and I was left wondering where you'd got that since it's unlike the origination as told in the wiki: Noah (2014 film) - Wikipedia

 

[Larniavc]

Biblical Epic ‘Noah’ Crosses $300 Million Globally

I stand corrected.

 

[Harry Larry]

So I watched both Polycarp and Ben-Hur last night, and while they are perfectly fine movies (budgets varying wildly, of course), they still do what I feel something like Noah did not, and it made it more interesting to watch: They (and I apologize the unintended pun) preach to the choir. They, especially Polycarp, are Christian comfort food, something that we know how is going to unfold and do not worry will challenge either our faith or our minds. Noah, for all its obvious flaws, drew uncomfortable parallels between a well known Biblical disaster and something that in many ways looked like the remains of our own world. And its twists and inaccuracies were not just some poor research, but pushed us to think about a story we thought we knew. I think this is what draws me more to an "inspired by" than a "based on" kind of storytelling. Stories that take essential foundations of Christian thinking and put them in a new perspective. I actually ended up also watching Constantine again, a guilty pleasure of mine, and while the ties to actual Christian lore are timid at the best of times, and while the neutral depiction of what I would call pseudo-Christian witchcraft is worrying, it pushes me to rethink things, even if it never changes my view on them. And I forget the verse, but there is one about how Christians must challenge their beliefs to the brink to know that (if??) they are true beliefs, or just lip service to the Book. I think this is what I would look for in a modern fictional universe based on Christianity. Something that shows a side that would be unexpected, but respects the faith and its roots. Something that pushes us, perhaps to the point that we question ourselves. A key part of faith is to be lost and find your way back. Again, in my humble opinion.

Also, Peter Stormare as Lou is just amazing. If his feet ever touched mortal soil, I would expect nothing different...

 

[Halbhh]

I hadn't seen the newer Ben Hur yet, but the old one was a great movie for just pure entertainment I recall, and with a few moments too, like this one:

That water....

“If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

 

[angelsaroundme]

The safest route might be a story inspired by Biblical characters but not actually based on them. So instead of it being Samson it's loosely inspired by him. A guy whose ridiculous strength comes from God. But maybe you don't have a Delilah type relationship. Maybe you do and she gets redeemed. You can be creative because, again, it's not the exact characters. It's not a Biblical retelling.

My idea for how it would work is something like the TV show Once Upon A Time. All these special people are drawn to a town. There is a lot of mysteries and challenges for them to overcome. Maybe you have a Solomon type whose wisdom they need but he has challenges with temptations. Part of the fun could be keeping people guessing at who certain characters are based on or what are nods to those characters. Some characters could be combinations of multiple Biblical characters to make things more fun.

 

[Harry Larry]

The safest route might be a story inspired by Biblical characters but not actually based on them. So instead of it being Samson it's loosely inspired by him. A guy whose ridiculous strength comes from God. But maybe you don't have a Delilah type relationship. Maybe you do and she gets redeemed. You can be creative because, again, it's not the exact characters. It's not a Biblical retelling.

My idea for how it would work is something like the TV show Once Upon A Time. All these special people are drawn to a town. There is a lot of mysteries and challenges for them to overcome. Maybe you have a Solomon type whose wisdom they need but he has challenges with temptations. Part of the fun could be keeping people guessing at who certain characters are based on or what are nods to those characters. Some characters could be combinations of multiple Biblical characters to make things more fun.

This sounds like a really good approach. I am talking to a friend about trying to write something, anything, that could trigger people's ideas, something free online. I know there are writing projects out there that have created amazing worlds by simply sowing the seed in a few smaller stories and then letting people imagine from there. I am not entirely sure this anatchic method is the right hting, but I always liked leaving things open for people to play with an idea....

Now I just need to find and watch all of Once Upon A Time. Sigh, work, work, work, work...

 

[angelsaroundme]

This sounds like a really good approach. I am talking to a friend about trying to write something, anything, that could trigger people's ideas, something free online. I know there are writing projects out there that have created amazing worlds by simply sowing the seed in a few smaller stories and then letting people imagine from there. I am not entirely sure this anatchic method is the right hting, but I always liked leaving things open for people to play with an idea....

Now I just need to find and watch all of Once Upon A Time. Sigh, work, work, work, work...

If you ever watched Lost, Once Upon A Time is kind of a spiritual sequel. Except where Lost is more focused on mystery, OUAT is more centered around family and redemption. That's not to say OUAT is a Christian show. It's values are often pretty close though so it's not hard to imagine a Christian version of it. OUAT features flashbacks with the Disney characters in their familiar pasts.

It'd be simpler to just have the Biblical characters be themselves but also more controversial. I guess you could just say it's a fantasy, kind of an alternate timeline. For instance, you could have David and Goliath about to fight like in the Bible. However, they get summoned to the modern day town in this story. So there is tension between them, but also the possibility Goliath won't have to get killed if he changes his ways. Now let's say Goliath somehow realizes David will win in a one on one fight. Maybe he figures it out from the Bible. So Goliath thinks if he teams up with other villains he has a chance. Then a lot of Biblical heroes like Samson, Deborah, etc. join David and have a full on epic battle with Goliath and other villains he teamed up with.

But maybe in this version, Goliath doesn't get killed, and ultimately gets redeemed, becoming David's friend, and learns true strength is from God. That's just an idea of how it could work.

 

[Harry Larry]

If you ever watched Lost, Once Upon A Time is kind of a spiritual sequel. Except where Lost is more focused on mystery, OUAT is more centered around family and redemption. That's not to say OUAT is a Christian show. It's values are often pretty close though so it's not hard to imagine a Christian version of it. OUAT features flashbacks with the Disney characters in their familiar pasts.

Well, I'm certainly sold on it! Where can I watch it, Disney+?

On the transported Biblical characters, I have been dabbling with a less direct approach, more of transporting their essence and the trials they face, into a modern world (futuristic, technically). Just something I am playing around with, but it seems close to what you describe. It might not be the actual David and Goliath, for example, but the parallels are perfectly obvious, to the point that they, the characters, can be inspired by the Bible, a bit like you mentioned. If anyone has ideas on how to make this more elegant or impactful, I am very open to read them! This is very new land for me, so all inspiration is good inspiration

 

[angelsaroundme]

Yep it's on Disney+. The seventh season of OUAT is basically a sequel with some returning characters. It's not as well liked. So you can consider OUAT a six season show.

A sci-fi/futuristic Biblically inspired show could be really awesome. I think there is a lot of potential there. Goliath could be some kind of terrifying science experiment warrior. You could have technology competing with God's miracles. I can picture the Exodus done that way, with Pharaoh's sorcerers being "tech wizards". Like you said though, the characters need not be the actual Biblical characters, just similar.

 

[Harry Larry]

Yep it's on Disney+. The seventh season of OUAT is basically a sequel with some returning characters. It's not as well liked. So you can consider OUAT a six season show.

A sci-fi/futuristic Biblically inspired show could be really awesome. I think there is a lot of potential there. Goliath could be some kind of terrifying science experiment warrior. You could have technology competing with God's miracles. I can picture the Exodus done that way, with Pharaoh's sorcerers being "tech wizards". Like you said though, the characters need not be the actual Biblical characters, just similar.

I have been stealing hours here and there in my busy life to try my hand at writing, with great help from some far more creative friends, and it does sound a bit like what you desacribe, so maybe I am on the right track! In the end, I do not expect what I make to be anything significant, but maybe it can get people thinking and talking about the general idea of an "inspired by scripture" fictional universe, if that makes any sense?

I think I found the series, I will be looking into it when time is aplenty for such things!