A Catholic apologist for evolution and science

[Kurama]

“Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.'” -Genesis 1:6

"And the LORD God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, '" Genesis 3:22

(Mistakes in the Bible, Christians are monotheists: they will only believe in one God)


The Bible: Infallible...but not impeccably literal.

Catholics (Roman, Orthodox and Anglican) have always been motivated by truth. The Church has endorsed, funded and supported scientific progress, they've historically been at the forefront of science. As soon as Darwin found the evolutionary theory in his ''Origin of Species, and backed it up with evidence, Pope Pius XII stated that it correlates with Christian theology. An Austrian monk, Gregor Mendel, is known as the ''father of modern genetics'' (he is seen as a heretic among fundamentalist Christians).

Priests and monks have dedicated their lives to questioning the world and the universe. We believe that God obviously didn't reveal everything in the Bible (what about black holes, galaxies, natural selection, genes, chromosomes, super nova, asteroids, extraterrestrials, the big bang, atoms, neutrons, protons, electrons, dark matter, the Higgs boson...), that there is more to everything than just a book! God has hidden away things for us to find, for us to discover and make do with.

It would be blasphemous to reject hard scientific evidence, for we are denying God's creation in this way! Enough about conspiracy theories and alternate beliefs, let's just accept the truth! Whenever I hear about a scientific discovery, my heart jumps for joy since I believe we are getting closer to God by finding more about His universe, thus respecting Him even more.

Indeed, Catholics maintain a belief in Transubstantiation; the bread in the Eucharist is changed into flesh when consumed. This cannot be proven in chemistry, there is no way to prove that its chemical properties change since the atomic numbers of the elements in the bread remain the same. However we do not go door-to-door urging you all to believe this, the Eucharist is a very private matter which is only practiced behind the doors of the church.

Flame me if you will, God gave me the gift of freethought for a reason...

 

[AV1611VET]

“Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.'” -Genesis 1:6

"And the LORD God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, '" Genesis 3:22

(Mistakes in the Bible, Christians are monotheists: they will only believe in one God)

What do you mean by this? are you saying "us" is a mistake; or are you saying monotheism is a mistake?

If you're saying "us" is a mistake, you're making a mistake, as "us" refers to the Godhead.

In other words, God the Father is talking to God the Son is talking to God the Holy Spirit.

The Bible: Infallible...but not impeccably literal.

I'll agree with this statement, since the Bible contains figures of speech, allegory, parables and poetry.

It would be blasphemous to reject hard scientific evidence, for we are denying God's creation in this way!

What do you mean by 'hard scientific evidence'?

Was Alchemy backed by 'hard scientific evidence'? Phlogiston? Thalidomide? Pluto? air having no mass? safe to go back in your homes in L'Aquila? the Deepwater Horizon? a static state universe?

Enough about conspiracy theories and alternate beliefs, let's just accept the truth! Whenever I hear about a scientific discovery, my heart jumps for joy since I believe we are getting closer to God by finding more about His universe, thus respecting Him even more.

Did God create the universe to be winding down? did God create our sun to burn out? did God embed Murphy's Law into His creation?

Indeed, Catholics maintain a belief in Transubstantiation; the bread in the Eucharist is changed into flesh when consumed. This cannot be proven in chemistry, there is no way to prove that its chemical properties change since the atomic numbers of the elements in the bread remain the same.

I'm not sure what you're saying here?

Are you saying the molecular weight of the bread stays the same? thus implying its respective elements change, but the weight stays the same?

However we do not go door-to-door urging you all to believe this, the Eucharist is a very private matter which is only practiced behind the doors of the church.

Then why does my mother-in-law have the Eucharist administered to her in her home? even while visitors are present?

Flame me if you will, God gave me the gift of freethought for a reason...

I won't flame you, I promise. Not on purpose, anyway.

Let me give you some advice though: God may have given you the gift of freethought, but if you don't use it here to support these ... um ... scientists here, you can expect your freethought to be flamed.

These guys will beg you to freethink, just so they can hear something they can ridicule; or they'll beg you to quote the Bible to them, so they can trample It.

If they wanted to discuss pure science, they would go elsewhere.

 

[crimsonleaf]

I admire the sentiment, in that much of science reveals more of God, but some of what you've written borders on heresy for you as a Catholic. You might want to re-think.

 

[AV1611VET]

I admire the sentiment, in that much of science reveals more of God,

If you wanted to learn more about Thomas Edison, would you read his diary, or would you study a light bulb?

I'm always amazed at people who claim they look to nature to find "more of God," when the Bible reveals ten times more about Him than the entire universe put together.

 

[crimsonleaf]

If you wanted to learn more about Thomas Edison, would you read his diary, or would you study a light bulb?

I'm always amazed at people who claim they look to nature to find "more of God," when the Bible reveals ten times more about Him than the entire universe put together.

Yes, but you're pre-supposing that I don't look to the bible first, which I do for in excess of two hours a day.

Besides, a serious look at the structure of DNA (for example) can do nothing to lead anyone away from God and everything to confirm the truths we know.

Any further thoughts?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, but you're pre-supposing that I don't look to the bible first, which I do for in excess of two hours a day.

Takes time to allegorize It, doesn't it?

 

[Split Rock]

What do you mean by 'hard scientific evidence'?

He probably means theories well supported by the evidence, like deep time and evolution.

Was Alchemy backed by 'hard scientific evidence'?

No. It was never a science from a modern perspective.

Phlogiston?

Phlogiston worked as a model for a time. It was later falsified and replaced. Science self-corrects.

Thalidomide?

Thalidomide worked fine.. it just had unexpected side-effects.

Pluto?

There you go with Pluto again. Tell us how science failed with Pluto. Is it not still there? Is its orbit any different?

air having no mass?

Not sure of the history of that, but I'm sure you will distort it.

safe to go back in your homes in L'Aquila?

There was no hard science that demanded otherwise.

the Deepwater Horizon?

Where did science go wrong with that? Had proper safety procedures been enforced there would never have been any accident.

a static state universe?

I would call that more of an hypothesis than "hard scientific evidence."

Did God create the universe to be winding down? did God create our sun to burn out? did God embed Murphy's Law into His creation?

Apparently yes. Who are you to question Him?

Let me give you some advice though: God may have given you the gift of freethought, but if you don't use it here to support these ... um ... scientists here, you can expect your freethought to be flamed.

Some people post silly ideas here, fully expecting to be ridiculed for them. They do so so they can claim they are being "persecuted," just like Jesus was. I'm not naming names, mind you...

These guys will beg you to freethink, just so they can hear something they can ridicule; or they'll beg you to quote the Bible to them, so they can trample It.

I don't have a problem with bible quotes, although some here do not see any worth to them, true enough. It is interesting to me how often such bible quotes do not offer the support often claimed by them, however.

If they wanted to discuss pure science, they would go elsewhere.

Perhaps.

 

[AV1611VET]

She...

He.

 

[Split Rock]

I admire the sentiment, in that much of science reveals more of God, but some of what you've written borders on heresy for you as a Catholic. You might want to re-think.

Just out of curiosity, which parts of the O.P. would you consider to be heretical (from a Catholic perspective)?

 

[crimsonleaf]

Takes time to allegorize It, doesn't it?

I'm not sure quite what your problem is, but I'm a Biblical Literalist.

Having a bad day?

 

[AV1611VET]

Just out of curiosity, which parts of the O.P. would you consider to be heretical (from a Catholic perspective)?

He seems to be implying that monotheism is an error.

I have a feeling he will grow up to be a respected scientist.

 

[crimsonleaf]

Just out of curiosity, which parts of the O.P. would you consider to be heretical (from a Catholic perspective)?

The term "mistakes in the bible" and the phrasing of the brief discourse on transubstantiation, which even my friend above was uncertain about.

It's about clarity of presentation.

 

[Split Rock]

He.

Daggoneit! Caught by my own snare.... a guy posting with a female avatar!

Thanks, buddy....

 

[AV1611VET]

Daggoneit! Caught by my own snare.... a guy posting with a female avatar!

Thanks, buddy....

I do that all the time, when I look at the avatar, instead of the gender icon!

Someone doing that to me might mistake me for a comic magazine character!

 

[crimsonleaf]

I do that all the time, when I look at the avatar, instead of the gender icon!

Someone doing that to me might mistake me for a comic magazine character!

What? You worry?

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Flame me if you will, God gave me the gift of freethought for a reason...

As if flaming was the worst thing that could have happened to your thread.

 

[AV1611VET]

What? You worry?

Never!

 

[sfs]

The term "mistakes in the bible" and the phrasing of the brief discourse on transubstantiation, which even my friend above was uncertain about.

It's about clarity of presentation.

I don't see the risk of heresy here. Perhaps "mistakes" isn't the best word from a Roman Catholic point of view, but Catholic Bible scholars have been free to assert the presence of numerous factual inaccuracies in the Bible without any problem.

What's the concern about transubstantiation?

 

[crimsonleaf]

I don't see the risk of heresy here. Perhaps "mistakes" isn't the best word from a Roman Catholic point of view, but Catholic Bible scholars have been free to assert the presence of numerous factual inaccuracies in the Bible without any problem.

What's the concern about transubstantiation?

At first reading it looks like a denial, which I'm sure it isn't.

As I said, it's about clarity of presentation and being clear not to post ambiguously.

 

[sfs]

At first reading it looks like a denial, which I'm sure it isn't.

I didn't see any hint of denial there.