A Baha'i's view of atonement

[dlamberth]

Is that some kind of special bahai inspiration.How do know that ?.

The native language that Jesus spoke, like most Jews in those days was Aramaic. He also had a working knowledge of Hebrew, which is closely related to Aramaic. I suspect that He also had knowledge of Greek as well since out side of the Jewish community that was the common language in the day. But, as I said, most Jews spoke Aramaic.

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[smaneck]

The native language that Jesus spoke, like most Jews in those days was Aramaic. He also had a working knowledge of Hebrew, which is closely related to Aramaic. I suspect that He also had knowledge of Greek as well since out side of the Jewish community that was the common language in the day. But, as I said, most Jews spoke Aramaic..

Aramaic was the common language for all of greater Syria at the time, not just the Jewish community.

 

[Rationalt]

Jesus was a simple carpenter, not an educated man. Aramaic, not Greek would have been the lingua franca where he lived.

More Nonsense based on conjecture.Very little is known about Jesus's life and here you are confidently declaring his educational qualifications.typical bahai bluster.

Even-though the bible Nt was written in greek gehenna,the armaic word, was used in addition to hades.Gehenna as used by Jesus could be interpreted as pit In hell and not hell itself.

Hades (hell) has gates but not gehenna(The Pit).

Congratulations you found a couple of references to hades as opposed to the numerous ones I found for Gehenna which you had denied.

No, i was merely calling up on your bluster.I didn't ignore gehenna.

When Matthew's gospel refers to hades it is alluding to Old Testament verses regarding sheol.

My rage is over and Just for the sake of explaining the subject sheol is Pit.Hades is not used to mean pit/grave by Jesus since he says Gates of hades(hell) will be open.

Sheol got translated as hades in the Septuagint. It is a reference to the grave, not a place of burning torment. Jesus is saying death will not prevail against the church.

In the bible Nt Jesus used gehenna as to mean mostly as pit of fire.

 

[Rationalt]

The native language that Jesus spoke, like most Jews in those days was Aramaic. He also had a working knowledge of Hebrew, which is closely related to Aramaic. I suspect that He also had knowledge of Greek as well since out side of the Jewish community that was the common language in the day. But, as I said, most Jews spoke Aramaic.

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Since some excplicit greek words are used in Bible Nt along with hebrew words it is reasonable to assume Jesus was well aware of greek language.

That Nt was written In greek language is something that cannot be ignored.You wouldn't expect Jesus not be glancing once in a while what his apostles are recording.

 

[dlamberth]

Aramaic was the common language for all of greater Syria at the time, not just the Jewish community.

Off subject, sort of, below is a link to a group of Lovers of God dancing to the Aramaic version of the Lords Prayer. I experience it more as a Zikr than a dance, but when it comes from the Heart it is a dance to God.

Aramaic_Lords_Prayer_of_Jesus

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[bling]

I think God's love is such that He will try again and again. That's why, while I can accept the notion of the crucifixion as atonement, I can't see it as a once-and-never-again event.

God would know when a person reached the point that they will never accept his Love (this is not something I can know).

The “atonement” takes place for each individual when they complete their personal responsibility in the atonement process (humble acceptance through faith of what Christ/God has done for them and thus feel the disciplining).

 

[bling]

This seems to be based upon the idea that everybody who isn't a Christian is at war with G-d. I'm not. I'm open to whatever He wants for me. But that openness has always brought me back to Judaism and not to Jesus.

Have you considered the possibility that God has brought you to a Christian website to help you to accept Christ?

Are you fighting the idea that Christ is the Messiah?

 

[LoAmmi]

Have you considered the possibility that God has brought you to a Christian website to help you to accept Christ?

I'll consider it if you consider maybe He brought me here to open some eyes to the truth and remove their idolatry. I don't believe either to be true.

Are you fighting the idea that Christ is the Messiah?

Both those words you used mean the same thing. If you mean if I fight the idea that Jesus is the Messiah, to be honest Jesus puts up not much of a fight. I look at scriptures, it doesn't add up, and I move on.

 

[light upon light]

Have you considered the possibility that God has brought you to a Christian website to help you to accept Christ?

Are you fighting the idea that Christ is the Messiah?

Maybe God brought LoAmmi here so that Christians and others can broaden their understanding of who is in the fold and who is cast into the outer darkness?

 

[bling]

It doesn't say God's love isn't there first, it says that love can't reach us, i.e. it doesn't effect us unless we love God.



Anyone who accepts God's love already loves Him.

Man’s objective while here on earth is to obtain and grow Godly type Love so man can Love God and secondly others with all his heart, soul, mind and energy.

This Godly type Love is not something man can even be born with, develop or payback for having. It is not instinctive to man (making it a robotic type love) nor can God force man to have this Love since that would make it like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun.

God is always Loving man with this unique huge Love, but since it comes to man as pure charity, man will not humble himself to accept pure Charity.

The only way for selfish man to initially obtain Godly type Love is through what Jesus has taught us (Luke 7: 36-50) “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”, so when we accept an unbelievable huge forgiveness from God we automatically receive an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love), but that is not the result of our Loving God.

That sounds more like Islam.

Not to my understanding.

 

[bling]

Like burning in literal hellfire for all eternity?

We are talking about God allowing humans to sin. This is tragic in one respect, but also extremely easy to resolve with God's forgiveness, so God will allow us to sin to help us fulfill our earthly objective.


Man’s objective while here on earth is to obtain and grow Godly type Love so man can Love God and secondly others with all his heart, soul, mind and energy.

This Godly type Love is not something man can even be born with, develop or payback for having. It is not instinctive to man (making it a robotic type love) nor can God force man to have this Love since that would make it like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun.

God is always Loving man with this unique huge Love, but since it comes to man as pure charity, man will not humble himself to accept pure Charity.

The only way for selfish man to initially obtain Godly type Love is through what Jesus has taught us (Luke 7: 36-50) “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”, so when we accept an unbelievable huge forgiveness from God we automatically receive an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love), but that is not the result of our Loving God.

 

[light upon light]

God would know when a person reached the point that they will never accept his Love (this is not something I can know).

I'm pretty sure this is never the case.

 

[bling]

Everything that God does for anyone is motivated by His love.

Those that have refused God’s Love to the point that they will never accept God’s Love, will be used by God, not out of “love” for them, to help others that are willing to accept to accept out of Love for those still willing.

 

[light upon light]

Bling,

I'm not sure whether that was a "yes" or "no" to burning forever in literal hellfire...

 

[bling]

That's way, WAY too exclusive. God is not exclusive!!

Everything God does, regardless of what He does, is done by Love. All of humanity is covered by God's Love, with out exception.

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Those that have refused God’s Love to the point that they will never accept God’s Love, will be used by God, not out of “love” for them, to help others that are willing to accept to accept out of Love for those still willing.

 

[light upon light]

Those that have refused God’s Love to the point that they will never accept God’s Love, will be used by God, not out of “love” for them, to help others that are willing to accept to accept out of Love for those still willing.

Used as human logs burning in the fires of hell forever?

 

[bling]

Children do better when they know what to expect, but they do not need to be treated equally. When I was a child my parents took in two foster kids, older than I. If they got C's on their report cards my parents praised them. Do you think the praised me when I got a "C"? Not hardly! They also got bigger allowances than I did because that is what my parents believed was appropriate to their age. My concept of justice and fairness was based on my parent's action not some predetermined ideal of equality. We were not equal and they didn't treat us that way.

You and they got praised for doing the best you could “equally”. You “equally” got an appropriate allowance for your age so as you got older you would get the same.

When someone has truly repented it means they *already* acknowledge the significance of what they have done. We punish a child when we perceive that they probably can't, and our artificial consequences are far preferable to them experiencing the real and natural consequences.

Again something are done to visually confirm consistency and consistency is extremely important in parenting. The child that is “never” discipline by his/her parent and sees a lot of time, communication and effort being given siblings can assume the parents have more concern for the siblings then the parents have for them.

I do think you are confusing “loving discipline” with “physical punishment”. Parental discipline involves the interaction (time, energy, communication, thought and emotions) between the child and parent that should result in an improvement in the closeness of the relationship, which just parental forgiveness would not provide.

 

[bling]

Apparently you think people not accepting biblical love are rejecting God's love in total .

People accept the needed rain, but do not humbly accept it as undeserved, unconditional, sacrificial Love from God. They can accept it as a loving child might accept a gift from a parent.

 

[LoAmmi]

People accept the needed rain, but do not humbly accept it as undeserved, unconditional, sacrificial Love from God. They can accept it as a loving child might accept a gift from a parent.

Alrighty. I accept His love. I'm all cool now, right?

 

[bling]

I'll consider it if you consider maybe He brought me here to open some eyes to the truth and remove their idolatry. I don't believe either to be true.


Both those words you used mean the same thing. If you mean if I fight the idea that Jesus is the Messiah, to be honest Jesus puts up not much of a fight. I look at scriptures, it doesn't add up, and I move on.

If we both have the time, it might tell us in the future.