911 Towers Were Exploded Outwards, Not Collapsed

[stelow]

Yes I would like to know what the giant fireball consisted of, that all the world witnessed on impact, if it was jet fuel then considering how fast jet fuel ignites and burns up, it could only be the fires on the floors that burned after the initial explosion that caused the structural failure as one paid pedestrian put it. The jet fuel exploded on impact, most of which can be witnessed outside the building in huge rolling billows of flame and fuel

Yes that's true about the jet fuel burning up, but no way office fires could have caused the structual failure, that was to follow.

 

[Btodd]

Yes that's true about the jet fuel burning up, but no way office fires could have caused the structual failure, that was to follow.

First, it's not true as far as all the jet fuel burning up on impact, and I would like to hear your scientific rebuttal to the NIST report and the subsequent independent peer-reviewed studies on the matter. YouTube does not count, by the way.

Remember, doubt is not an argument.


Btodd

 

[stelow]

First, it's not true as far as all the jet fuel burning up on impact, and I would like to hear your scientific rebuttal to the NIST report and the subsequent independent peer-reviewed studies on the matter. YouTube does not count, by the way.

Remember, doubt is not an argument.


Btodd

No, but the lies you believe are; NIST an insider government agency was hired and payed for with big dollars, to produce the desired report.

 

[ManFromUncle]

//

 

[Btodd]

No, but the lies you believe are; NIST an insider government agency was hired and payed for with big dollars, to produce the desired report.

That's why I mentioned independent studies of the Twin Towers, and if you simply hand-wave away any explanation that you deem as being from the government, then you're just a reactionary, and not someone who actually values evidence. It's not automatically wrong just because of who it comes from; the arguments are what matter. Try not to forget that.


Btodd

 

[ManFromUncle]

Yes I would like to know what the giant fireball consisted of, that all the world witnessed on impact, if it was jet fuel then considering how fast jet fuel ignites and burns up, it could only be the fires on the floors that burned after the initial explosion that caused the structural failure as one paid pedestrian put it. The jet fuel exploded on impact, most of which can be witnessed outside the building in huge rolling billows of flame and fuel

The fireballs were most of the jet fuel, which burns off quickly in open air fires (within 5 - 10 minutes tops) and dispersed very quickly in the fireballs. "Jet A", which is standard jet fuel, is only kerosene. The 767s had a max capacity of 24,000 gallons, but were only about half-full because they were only going to CA, and the 767 is a long-range plane that can go halfway around the world.

So yes, what was burning in the towers was mostly office synthetics, all regulation fire retardant meaning meant to burn cooly and slowly (carpet, chairs, computer plastics.) Any kerosene spilled into the building would have cooked off in five minutes much the same as lighter fluid on your charcoal grill. Witnesses reported seeing fires that were quite tame, one seeing part of a wing through a door but flames just licking at blinds. If the witness was close enough to see that, it was no raging inferno, which we can know visually since we know what raging inferno looks like, and since the smoke was black, evidence of cool, oxygen-starved fires. Hot fires burn white or red/white and give off little smoke or white smoke, since an efficient hydrocarbon burn gives off mostly carbon dioxide and water.

Relative to the mass of the steel frames in the towers, even if every drop of kerosene got dumped into the towers, it would be the equivalent of a ounce of kerosene next to 100 pounds of steel (scaling down to a scale of 1/2 millionth)

The fires were nothing, and the planes hits were nothing to the 95,000 tons of steel in the cores and perimeter beams, which shredded the planes on impact like a steel cheese grater shredding an empty aluminum can (planes are basically hollow aluminum tubes with wings. The heaviest parts are landing gear and engines, made of titanium alloy. ) Steel is three times denser than aluminum which is why a steel knife cuts through a soda can.

example of a white-hot "raging inferno", Mandarin Hotel 2009. Didn't collapse.



short article: [SIZE=-1]Simple Calculations Showing the Official 911 Story is Impossible[/SIZE]

 

[stelow]

That's why I mentioned independent studies of the Twin Towers, and if you simply hand-wave away any explanation that you deem as being from the government, then you're just a reactionary, and not someone who actually values evidence. It's not automatically wrong just because of who it comes from; the arguments are what matter. Try not to forget that.


Btodd

Yea right, that's like shut my brain off and just believe what your told, ain't goin to happen.

 

[Btodd]

Yea right, that's like shut my brain off and just believe what your told, ain't goin to happen.

Oh, so you're not 'told' from conspiracy sites? This isn't skepticism, it's just automatically disbelieving anything connected with the government. Don't pretend to be really insightful here.


Btodd

 

[Btodd]

The fireballs were most of the jet fuel, which burns off quickly in open air fires (within 5 - 10 minutes tops) and dispersed very quickly in the fireballs. "Jet A", which is standard jet fuel, is only kerosene. The 767s had a max capacity of 24,000 gallons, but were only about half-full because they were only going to CA, and the 767 is a long-range plane that can go halfway around the world.

We're mostly in agreement, but 'dispersed very quickly in the fireballs' means that it is distributed around very quickly; not used up. That's what 'dispersed' means.

So yes, what was burning in the towers was mostly office synthetics, all regulation fire retardant meaning meant to burn cooly and slowly (carpet, chairs, computer plastics.) Any kerosene spilled into the building would have cooked off in five minutes much the same as lighter fluid on your charcoal grill.

Seriously. You're now comparing the crashing of a 767 loaded with 10,000 gallons of jet fuel to a grill in your backyard. Enough said.

Witnesses reported seeing fires that were quite tame, one seeing part of a wing through a door but flames just licking at blinds. If the witness was close enough to see that, it was no raging inferno, which we can know visually since we know what raging inferno looks like, and since the smoke was black, evidence of cool, oxygen-starved fires. Hot fires burn white or red/white and give off little smoke or white smoke, since an efficient hydrocarbon burn gives off mostly carbon dioxide and water.

I guess you feel justified ignoring not only the pictures of the fires, but the fact that more than 100 people jumped to their deaths that day, instead of facing 'tame fires'. Pathetic.

The fires were nothing, and the planes hits were nothing to the 95,000 tons of steel in the cores and perimeter beams, which shredded the planes on impact like a steel cheese grater shredding an empty aluminum can (planes are basically hollow aluminum tubes with wings. The heaviest parts are landing gear and engines, made of titanium alloy. ) Steel is three times denser than aluminum which is why a steel knife cuts through a soda can.

And those impacts severed critical columns, ignited massive fires that weakened the steel...and caused the upper block to eventually collapse down on the lower block, at the impact points, which is a force you apparently cannot grasp.

example of a white-hot "raging inferno", Mandarin Hotel 2009. Didn't collapse.



short article: [SIZE=-1]Simple Calculations Showing the Official 911 Story is Impossible[/SIZE]

Which was not built like the Twin Towers AT ALL. If your argument rests on the premise that all buildings are built the same, and therefore all have the same structural integrity in relation to all events, including smashing fuel-laden 767's into them at 400-500 mph, then I feel sorry for you.


Btodd

 

[stelow]

Oh, so you're not 'told' from conspiracy sites? This isn't skepticism, it's just automatically disbelieving anything connected with the government. Don't pretend to be really insightful here.


Btodd

No I only believe want you tell us, I don't want to pretend, that I could possibly be insightful.

The events of 9/11 didn't have anything to do with anyone's interests in, wars for Oil, Israel, or Logistics, oh wait does spell out OIL; because if any of that was true, then we would have a conspiracy, and we know, from what you tell us, that ain't possible.

 

[Btodd]

No I only believe want you tell us, I don't want to pretend, that I could possibly be insightful.

The events of 9/11 didn't have anything to do with anyone's interests in, wars for Oil, Israel, or Logistics, oh wait does spell out OIL; because if any of that was true, then we would have a conspiracy, and we know, from what you tell us, that ain't possible.

In short; if you establish motive, then whatever conspiracy you say happened, happened. And don't ask you to elaborate on any details. I wonder why you guys can't produce a peer-reviewed science paper on this magic trick? Hmmm. Still, send money to AE911Truth...it's contrary to the official version, so it's automatically true. But the official story people just believe what they're told.

Possible is not automatically probable. Hence my references to science; which this reality rests upon.


Btodd

 

[Skaloop]

No I only believe want you tell us, I don't want to pretend, that I could possibly be insightful.

The events of 9/11 didn't have anything to do with anyone's interests in, wars for Oil, Israel, or Logistics, oh wait does spell out OIL; because if any of that was true, then we would have a conspiracy, and we know, from what you tell us, that ain't possible.

You were doing an OK job until this, where you appeal to an arbitrary anagram to support your argument. That's beyond weak.

 

[mzungu]

The fires were nothing, and the planes hits were nothing to the 95,000 tons of steel in the cores and perimeter beams, which shredded the planes on impact like a steel cheese grater shredding an empty aluminum can (planes are basically hollow aluminum tubes with wings. The heaviest parts are landing gear and engines, made of titanium alloy. ) Steel is three times denser than aluminum which is why a steel knife cuts through a soda can.

So according to your theory; lead bullets cannot penetrate steel. Wooden arrows cannot penetrate anything harder than wood? I guarantee you that an aluminium pellet is capable of penetrating steel.

Here, read this before you pass judgement: Momentum, Work and Energy

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

The fires were nothing, and the planes hits were nothing to the 95,000 tons of steel in the cores and perimeter beams, which shredded the planes on impact like a steel cheese grater shredding an empty aluminum can (planes are basically hollow aluminum tubes with wings.

Because, you know, all 95,000 tons of steel was exactly where the planes hit.

example of a white-hot "raging inferno", Mandarin Hotel 2009. Didn't collapse.

Example of using a different scenario to try and push a conspiracy. Unless a plane flew into the Mandarin and I missed it.

 

[frankleespeaking]

I'm thinking that whole other story about Murdock news empire hacking into 911 phones was to sensitive to the official cover story, and murdock is now paying the price, look at some news rags publishing complete lies, and getting caught, not much publicity just pay their fines and go on to the next fictional story they concoct, but when they start digging where they find truth, and honest to goodness phone conversations.....look out your now in the spotlight of the world, and all sorts of government officials are resigning in the wake of this event, I wonder what really was going on, I mean journalist have been invading peoples privacy in all sorts of manor, peeking through windows, going through their trash, following them in cars, even bugging their houses I'm sure, whats such a big hooplaa about this story?

 

[mzungu]

Because, you know, all 95,000 tons of steel was exactly where the planes hit.

He forgot to mention that a hypersonic uranium tipped south Asian pigeon hit the Mandarin Hotel!

 

[frankleespeaking]

So according to your theory; lead bullets cannot penetrate steel. Wooden arrows cannot penetrate anything harder than wood? I guarantee you that an aluminium pellet is capable of penetrating steel.

Here, read this before you pass judgement: Momentum, Work and Energy

yeah! I'm sure I could roll up a paper magazine and stick it into somones eye socket killing them instantly, showing how paper can become a deadly weapon, the planes hitting the towers, did not cut through every support beam on the entire floor, at the same time, or every floor below the crash for that matter, any knucklehead who believes steel buildings fall into their basement, even if someone were to drop the weight of the moon on them, they would not have fallen the way they did, if the impact of weight is what people believe caused each floor to fail, you would of witnessed stress bending and buckling on lower floors after each mindblowing impact of additional weight on the next falling floor, Its not like crushing a soda can that is perfectly consistant in its structure, each floor had a whole host of variables, making some sections more resistant than others. and even much lower floors could of failed before it hit the bottom, if it was the enertia of weight above that is believed to have caused the collapse. But that is not what happened! each floor failed perfectly in sequence as to the floor above came crashing down, this idea should make anyone who pounds a nail, to come to the absolute conclusion that a nail will only bend at the point of impact, it will never bend half way down or at any weak point in the structure of the nail. going back to the soda can if you think you can take a huge weight and smash a soda can in the same way the towers fell, make sure you use a can that would mimic the size of the towers, for example why not start out small and stack 4 cans on top of each other, and hit them as hard as you can with a sledge hammer, tell me how many times you were able to crush them all into one can at the bottom, your going to find that its going to be crucial to have the sledge hammer hit perfectly on the top, the least difference weight on any one side will cause your can tower to give way on a lower level......good luck......See if you can do it three times in a row

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

He forgot to mention that a hypersonic uranium tipped south Asian pigeon hit the Mandarin Hotel!

Kind of like you forgot to link the post where I am insisting on a theory on the towers. Or did you surprise us all and admit you made a false claim?

 

[mzungu]

yeah! I'm sure I could roll up a paper magazine and stick it into somones eye socket killing them instantly, showing how paper can become a deadly weapon, the planes hitting the towers, did not cut through every support beam on the entire floor, at the same time, or every floor below the crash for that matter, any knucklehead who believes steel buildings fall into their basement, even if someone were to drop the weight of the moon on them, they would not have fallen the way they did, if the impact of weight is what people believe caused each floor to fail, you would of witnessed stress bending and buckling on lower floors after each mindblowing impact of additional weight on the next falling floor, Its not like crushing a soda can that is perfectly consistant in its structure, each floor had a whole host of variables, making some sections more resistant than others. and even much lower floors could of failed before it hit the bottom, if it was the enertia of weight above that is believed to have caused the collapse. But that is not what happened! each floor failed perfectly in sequence as to the floor above came crashing down, this idea should make anyone who pounds a nail, to come to the absolute conclusion that a nail will only bend at the point of impact, it will never bend half way down or at any weak point in the structure of the nail. going back to the soda can if you think you can take a huge weight and smash a soda can in the same way the towers fell, make sure you use a can that would mimic the size of the towers, for example why not start out small and stack 4 cans on top of each other, and hit them as hard as you can with a sludge hammer, tell me how many times you were able to crush them all into one can at the bottom, your going to find that its going to be crucial to have the sludge hammer hit perfectly on the top, the least difference weight on any one side will cause your can tower to give way on a lower level......good luck......See if you can do it three times in a row

What's a "sludgehammer"? Perhaps if it was only one floor falling but there were plenty of floors above the impact point and they carried enough momentum and force to cause the building to come down the way it did.

Like I said, If there is a conspiracy it is in the politics and not the building. So according to you the suicide terrorist was told on which floor to aim the plane because that is where the explosives were rigged? Right!!! and Elvis lives on the moon!!!!

 

[frankleespeaking]

What's a "sludgehammer"? Perhaps if it was only one floor falling but there were plenty of floors above the impact point and they carried enough momentum and force to cause the building to come down the way it did.

Like I said, If there is a conspiracy it is in the politics and not the building. So according to you the suicide terrorist was told on which floor to aim the plane because that is where the explosives were rigged? Right!!! and Elvis lives on the moon!!!!

sorry for my spelling error SLEDGE hammer, yes alot of weight dropped on the floor but its unlogical to think that the weight falling and hitting each floor had no impact or bearing on the lower floors, if I dropped an anvil on your head do you perceive the possibility your knees will buckle, or will the weight have to make its way all the way down to your knees before they buckle and you fall down, incidently what giant weight do you surmise fell on building 7 to push it down into its basement