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It always intrigues me how the human mind can do the psychological gymnastics to make an elaborate conspiracy like this work in one's mind.
Magnify certain evidence that fits the conspiracy and ignore everything that doesn't. Good ole confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance, always fun to watch in action.
Ok cool.... he's a liar.
So.... can we talk about what I'm actualy trying to findout?
Here's another thing I need clarification on. If every floor did way 6,818 tons, the 18 floors in tower one that came down would weigh 122,724 tons, or 245,448,000 Lbs. (way over exaggerated) if it fell straight down onto the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor, that would be a load of 49.34 psi, and it would be dispersed over 32, 36,000 psi floor trusses, a 52,000 psi inner core, and a 23,000 psi outer skin.
How much resistance in psi would the falling 18 floors encounter if you were to add up all the yield strength of the steels entire surface area affected?
Meaning, how much force would it take to smash 32, 18'L 12"H X32"W X.25 I beams rated for 36,00o psi? Or the 52 x 22 inch thick center column rated at 52,000 psi? Also the 236 columns rated at 23,000 psi each, that made up the walls on each and ever floor?
In my example, the 245,448,000 Lbs. of the 18 falling floors would equal would equal 111,333,340 kg. Ill take the overall height of 415 meter / 110 floors to get a ball park story of 3.77 meters, or about 12.4 Ft. per story. Energy at impact: 4101 joules, or 21 psi. after an 12.4 foot drop. Add the impact to the weight of the structure falling 49.34 + 12.40= 61.74 Psi. spread out over the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor. So..... no collapse.
Bolding mine.
What a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] poor conspiracy, they let him live for years and then killed him.
At least we know 2 things, neither James Bond or Mossad were involved.
There is already a long string of highly unlikely witness and key expert deaths, like demolitions expert Danny Jowenko who said building 7 was definitely a demolition.
A few years later, Jowenko is killed in a single car accident at 10a.m. on a Sunday morning, driving back from church.
Barry Jennings said:Then there is Barry Jennings, the NYC Emergency Response director who was the last man out of WTC 7, who said he heard explosions going off in the building which blew the lobby to Kingdom Come.
After he gave that interview, and 3 days before the final report on WTC 7 to be released, Jennings, a very vigorous 53, dies of unknown causes.
Why do you automatically believe Underwriter's Laboratories? Van Jones was fired for being a truther too, and he was a Communist friend of Obama's. Everyone who admits to being a truther gets fired. That is the government's way of keeping the facts away from the people: make truthers look unpatriotic and enemies of the victims. It works. They are not just made fun of, they're hated. People don't dare talk about it in public. It is really sad that political pressure led to social pressure to keep it hidden. And intelligent people are falling for it.
That is not true. JFK's assassination was not possible the way the media told the story. It's taken until 2013 for 80% of the public to realize that. But that was 1963 so I can cut them some slack. 9/11 took place in 2001, people should have stood up and demanded explanations and answers to their questions, but they didn't. It was too painful, too upsetting, and people might think they were unpatriotic if they didn't believe the explanations, so they just ignored and accepted the story they were told.
I guess the witness who may have been killed and his silent family, well, they probably wouldn't be intrigued. If they could and apparently they can't, because they can't, not even a "no comment" from them, they would applaud the "conspiracy theorists".
It was certainly possible in the way it was portrayed. You will probably reference the 'magic bullet' theory without even knowing what the seating positions of Kennedy and Connelly were...which is the error most people make, because they watched Oliver Stone's movie and never checked the facts.
Btodd
Earlier, you chastised Keith99 for 'leaving out information' that would not support his position regarding Robert Bowman. He honorably admitted that he did not read further and missed the information you pointed him to.
But you've introduced this idea that Jowenko was 'murdered' before, because he thought WTC7 was a demolition, based on the video he saw. When you brought that up, I informed you that Jowenko watched video of the Twin Towers collapsing, and he immediately said that they collapsed as a result of the upper mass exerting too much force on the damaged area that was plagued by fires. So, he didn't think the Twin Towers were a controlled demolition at all.
Yet, you just left that out. Why? Because it doesn't help your case, so you pretend it doesn't exist. Do I need to post the video of him saying this again?
Also, you failed to mention that the 'single car crash' that he died in had an important detail that could very well explain how it happened, instead of appealing to some super-secret murder...his large dog was in the car with him. I wonder if that might have been the reason his car swerved.
Barry Jennings actually distanced himself from Dylan Avery's attempt to co-opt his story for promoting conspiracy beliefs about 9/11, and said they had tried to use him in a way that he did not intend.
After distancing himself from the Truth Movement, it's not hard to understand why his family did not release any details about his death (it's the family's decision, which is why it's 'unknown'), because they were tired of being part of the propaganda that you constantly copy 'n paste, and just wanted to be left alone by the Truth Movement.
Here's a tip: People die. Both of these guys had already said what they were gonna say, so there wasn't any reason to 'have them killed' WAY after the fact. But don't let that stop you from making wild speculations about them, without any evidence of wrongdoing whatsoever.
Now, hurry up and claim that the official explanation says that the steel melted again.
Btodd.
Why is it, that no one has come forward that was involved in the conspiracy you are discussing and given specific knowledge of how the conspiracy was carried out?
October 1996: Security Firm with Connections to Bush Family Acquires Security Contract for World Trade Center
Marvin Bush. [Source: Eric Draper / White House]A security company called Stratesec acquires an $8.3 million contract to help provide security at the World Trade Center. It is one of numerous contractors hired in the upgrade of security at the WTC following the 1993 bombing. Stratesec, which was formerly called Securacom, is responsible for installing the “security-description plan”—the layout of the electronic security system—at the World Trade Center. It has a “completion contract” to provide some of the center’s security “up to the day the buildings fell down,” according to Barry McDaniel, its CEO.
Involved with Airport Security...
Directors Include Bush Family Member - Marvin P. Bush, the youngest brother of future President George W. Bush, is a director at Stratesec from 1993 to June 2000, when most of its work on these big projects is done. Wirt D. Walker III, a distant relative of George W. Bush, is chairman of the board at Stratesec from 1992, and its CEO from 1999 until January 2002.
Ok cool..... let me read this over. Thanks for the response.Im not sure how you got 49.34 psi from those figures, but in any case trying to divide the mass of the upper floors evenly over the surface area of the building is wrong. The building floor surface and its supports are not a homogeneous object. Were not talking about Jenga blocks.
It doesnt really matter, since youre asking the wrong question. The yield strength test for steel structural beams (and indeed almost all steel) is done via an increasing static force until the steel yields. The stresses applied to those same beams during a structure collapse (building, bridge, whatever) are dynamic forces. Its akin to saying you can balance several bricks on your hand, versus dropping one brick on your hand from 30 cm up.
When you understand the nature of a collapse, you will understand that not only are the nature of the dynamic forces much higher, but the structure is far from homogeneous (hence my Jenga comment). The building collapse would hit some beams before others, some beams hit at the same time would be able to distribute the force acting on them better than others, some beams reach their yield strength and transfer the load acting on them to other beams etc. In other words, the nature of the forces are uneven, and only a fraction of the columns that you speak of will be resisting the force on the building at any once instant of the collapse.
Again wrong, since the force does not in any way spread out evenly over the entire floor below it. Now of course the upper floors would also be experiencing this phenomenon, however the entire dynamic mass ultimately has only one way to go down.
Barry Jennings called Avery, scared out of his wits, and asked him to remove the part of the interview about "stepping over dead bodies.' He said in the interview "you know when it's a body." When he denied saying this at all Avery showed the tape, and he did say it.
ManFromUncle said:As for Jowenko, he said "it would have taken years" to wire the Twin Towers, indicating that he did not know that the Bush brothers had the security contract since the 90's and therefore there was all the time in the world. Knowing that would he have felt compelled to come up with an alternative explanation?
ManFromUncle said:The car crash was three days after former US Army War College Director Dr. Alan Sabrosky gave a television interview in which he cited Jowenko, and claimed Israeli Mossad involvement in 9/11 for the purpose of getting the US to invade Iraq, an arch-enemy. Remember Israel already has a history of using false flags to draw us into war, as in the USS Liberty.
Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former Director of Studies at US Army War College, General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research. Concludes that a combination of treasonous elements in the US government and Israeli MOSSAD orchestrated 9/11, in order to enable invasion of Iraq.
[youtube]EPLU4N7gmY4[/youtube]
Was Jowenko about to change his mind about WTC 1 & 2? That would certainly get him killed. As for a big dog in the car, every big dog I've known knows how to ride more well-behaved than most children or even grown-ups. If the dog didn't ride well, Jowenko wouldn't be driving with him, because that would be stupid. And he was not a stupid man.
At the very best you've got Jowenko making a contradiction between what he thought of WTC 7 and WTC 1& 2. But he's just as dead, along with dozens of other witnesses.
He wasn't articulating a problem with mere 'access', but instead, a problem of logistics. People like you who pretend that wiring every single part of every column to collapse in perfectly-timed succession, ignore just how complicated that is.
Btodd
LOL you just made my argument. Yes it is complicated to make a skyscraper disappear in 14 seconds. Yet people like you expect us to believe that 19 Arabs with box cutters and one hammer of an airplane could do it. Twice in a row. And then a third for good measure. Good luck with that one too.
He wasn't articulating a problem with mere 'access', but instead, a problem of logistics. People like you who pretend that wiring every single part of every column to collapse in perfectly-timed succession, ignore just how complicated that is. And that's if it were normal demolitions charges; you contend that they were thermite, which needs to 'melt' the beam horizontally. Good luck with that hypothesis.
Btodd
For one, because he worked in water testing.
Why would you believe one man instead of the rest of the people that work at Underwriter's Laboratories, when he was speaking about a project he wasn't even involved in?
Why don't I trust the Underwriter's Laboratories? Because I don't trust anyone anymore, not the government, not the "experts", not anyone involved in anything this big anymore. Why would I? They killed Andrew Breitbart and Michael Hastings. They spy on us every chance they get, through our emails, our phone lines, cameras and satellites. They bribed congressmen to vote for an UNAFFORDABLE CARE ACT which they didn't even read. They are spending us into bankruptcy and selling us to China. They have gotten involved in war after war since the '60's with no plan at all to win, only to kill a lot of people including our own. And now they may have killed 3,000 Americans just to satisfy a bunch of evil old bankers. Why on earth would I trust my government? Why would I trust the "experts" who've either been bought or who side with them to always be on the "right" side politically?
I trust regular people with eyes to see and who ask questions.
The yield strength assigned to any grade of steel is the point at which it will bend and not regain its original shape. So A36 steel -- a mix of carbon and iron, like all steels -- can handle 36,000 pounds per square inch (36 kilopounds) of pressure before it begins to deform, and 52,000 psi of compression before deformation.
In the construction of the floors themselves, a mix of A36 and ASTM A 242 steel was used. it's load strength is 46,000 psi.
Each tower had 3,800,000 square feet of office space. That would be 34,545 Sq ft pr floor.
1 square foot = 144 square inches, so that equals 4,974,480 Sq inches pr floor. That would come to a wopping 2.74 Psi load pr floor being carried by 36,000 to 52,000 psi rated beams. At ground level with all the floors pressing upon them, the beams at the base would be carrying around 301.40 psi. That's allot of weight.
Here's another thing I need clarification on. If every floor did way 6,818 tons, the 18 floors in tower one that came down would weigh 122,724 tons, or 245,448,000 Lbs. (way over exaggerated) if it fell straight down onto the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor, that would be a load of 49.34 psi, and it would be dispersed over 32, 36,000 psi floor trusses, a 52,000 psi inner core, and a 23,000 psi outer skin.
How much resistance in psi would the falling 18 floors encounter if you were to add up all the yield strength of the steels entire surface area affected?
Meaning, how much force would it take to smash 32, 18'L 12"H X32"W X.25 I beams rated for 36,00o psi? Or the 52 x 22 inch thick center column rated at 52,000 psi? Also the 236 columns rated at 23,000 psi each, that made up the walls on each and ever floor?
In my example, the 245,448,000 Lbs. of the 18 falling floors would equal would equal 111,333,340 kg. Ill take the overall height of 415 meter / 110 floors to get a ball park story of 3.77 meters, or about 12.4 Ft. per story. Energy at impact: 4101 joules, or 21 psi. after an 12.4 foot drop. Add the impact to the weight of the structure falling 49.34 + 12.40= 61.74 Psi. spread out over the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor. So..... no collapse.
Get me pointed in the right direction and then I go from their from yall's help. Thank you.
Energy at impact: 4101 joules, or 21 psi. after an 12.4 foot drop. Add the impact to the weight of the structure falling 49.34 + 12.40= 61.74 Psi.
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