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[bèlla]

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[Not David]

It's a mutual submission based on respect and love.

 

[bèlla]

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[blackribbon]

I believe that once you are married, we are called to be a team with the husband taking the place of head of the family. However, the head is allowed to delegate decision making power and is not called to micromanage every aspect of the family. The wife may be given a budget to run the home and how she spends it is her individual decision. A child may be given the domain of his/her room as long as activity in that room falls under the household/family rules.

I believe that submission is not something demanded, it something chosen to give. At times both parties will choose to submit to the other. The choice to submit is actually choosing to trust God and letting go of the power and allowing ones mate to make the decision...good or bad. And we don't get to determine whether or not it was good or bad, we just trust God to take care of us.

I also think the choice of submitting is harder for women, which is probably why God put men as the head. It is a lesson for men, in learning how to stand up and put the good of the family over a person desire ... or a fear of confrontation. It is easy for a man to take orders from a woman, his life started by him being submissive to his mother..and he was under her leadership for years. It is a lesson for women, to learn to let go of the power and to learn how to trust God. Women like to be in power. It is hard to let go ... to a man or even God. A Christian marriage calls each party to become a better version of themselves and learning to partner together with each other and God.

I married my husband because I believed in the man he was. However, reality was, it was a long hard lesson to learn how to trust God enough to let him find out how to be the man I knew he was. At work, he had to submit to his leadership. At his home, he was still expect to please his mother, even as a grown man. He married me because he admired how capable I was (not only reason). It was easier to void conflict when we didn't agree...and he either just did what he wanted or gave up and let me win. My job was to learn to step back and learn how to be leader and support him, even when he didn't make the decisions I would of made. As he got more comfortable in making the decisions and know that I'd support him, he become a more confident man...and in turn, I respected him even more. As I learned to let go and trust him and God, my level of internal peace increased and I was happier as a mom and wife.

I was the delegated "head" in many areas that were important to me...either I cared more or he knew I was the one more prepared for these jobs.

As a widow, I am missing his headship in the areas that definitely are not my strong suit and I am having to trust God will carry me through my mistakes and my bad decisions. He knows my weaknesses and my limitations.

 

[bèlla]

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[blackribbon]

There are no feminists in my family. It is an apostasy to us. I was reared in a world that no longer exists.

You do not believe that a woman and man are made equal in the eyes of God? That is the real definition of feminism. Modern feminism ... well, that is another story and appears to want to put women over men.

But where does it fit in your OP of headship and submission? Just that the woman is never the head?...not in any situation...or what?

 

[Sketcher]

I would like to open a discussion on biblical headship and submission. This is not a debate. I am interested in hearing your point of view. There are no right or wrong answers. It's an opportunity for you to share your perspective and hear from other men and women. I will weigh in as well.

The two question I'd like to focus on are:

Q: What does biblical headship and submission mean to you?
Q: What do you struggle with regarding headship or submission?

I look forward to your comments.

Our example of headship is to be found in Christ. Christ, in his Earthly ministry, did everything he told us to do, he led by example. A leadership principle known to the Romans was that a centurion needed to be more ready to do what he was telling his men to do than he was to tell them to do it. I believe that principle is at work in Christ's example. One such example is in taking on the humble task of washing his disciples' feet. He saw humility was lacking among the disciples, and he did something about it (Luke 22:24-27, John 13:2-17). Philippians 2:1-8 gives us the overall ethic from which we operate in either headship or submission:

So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy,
complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.​

This is a core principle from which all Christians, married or single, adult, or child, need to operate from. It is not optional for the Christian. In the male role in marriage, that humility manifests as servant leadership. In the female role in marriage, it manifests as submission.

 

[Niels]

The way I see it, it's about striving for harmony as a couple. About teamwork, rather than trying to boss each other around.

I think it's possible to be egalitarian and for the man as the head of the household in the Christian sense.

Apparently, this is one of those things where you either get it or you don't. People hear those words and understandably jump to all kinds of conclusions.

 

[bèlla]

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[blackribbon]

I have no issue with God's institution. But please don't attempt to educate me on feminism. I am well versed in the subject and do not adhere to its tenets. I am not a feminist and don't befriend them. I prefer the company of women with a gentle and quiet spirit and it has served me well. If others choose differently, that's fine.



Is Jesus the head of the Father? Is the Holy Spirit at the helm?

I have little need to take the reins. I engage with gentlemen who are well prepared for that position. I do not consider a man I cannot follow. Ever.

Years ago, my mentor told me something I never forgot. I will share it here.

A woman meets a man
He tells her who he is
She believes what he said
And thus he becomes

I don't elevate a falsity. I will never have someone who lacks the capacity to lead. I won't laud him or put him in a position he's incapable of assuming. I don't adhere to a guise of leadership. I choose men with vision. And because I am adept at leadership and vision. I know what that looks like.

I was not trying to "educate" you on feminism. I was trying to get your definition of it. Like "racism", I believe the definition of it has become distorted and it means different things to different people. It has lost its real meaning. I suspect that we have similar view on what a Godly woman but I consider the Prov 31 woman to be the ultimate model of a feminist. She is smart and capable and that equality is what brings her husband and children honor. The sweetest gentlest servant Christian women I know I believe to be true feminists. I don't agree with the "Christians" who place the woman below the man in value. I have been told by many "Christian" men that I should submit to men in general. However, since my husband left me in God's timing with small children, I believe that God put me as head of my little family. I was put with a stranger to serve my family communion at a "family church" where only men of the households served communion to their own families. I have been left out of activities where the father parent was to attend suggesting that my son be represented by a grandfather or uncle (none of which who were Christians at the time nor had authority over me or my children). The command to submit was to my husband...and I believe that in his absence that I should not submit to someone else that has no commitment to me. I am guided by prayer and the vision we both had for our kids. But I believe that God equipped me with the personality and the strength to be the head long before I knew I would be thrust into that role...including knowing when to be meek and when to be bold.

The praise that I get from my children is that they say something about my presence alone calms down a room full of chaos...for everyone I meet. I'd give everything I have to get my husband back and to not be the leader of my family...but I do not believe that his death left my family without a head...or that I should abdicate my role as parent to my children and let someone else have that power.

God, all three persons, is the ultimate Head. But no man is head over me anymore. And I do not believe that it is unChristian nor unwomanly in any way. And I do believe that God created women to be equals as men or else they would not make good helpmeets at all. We just have our separate roles in this world and unfortunately, some of us have to expand our role beyond the traditional one.

My mission before my husband died was to be a Godly wife and a Godly mother. My husband wanted basically the same thing. A happy marriage and children to love. We had that. The rest didn't really matter. You may not believe that is a good mission, but it was and still is my primary mission in life. I don't have the husband anymore but he died in my arms loving me. I am still a mother and that will continue to be my primary mission.

My husband was a strong quiet boy/man when I met him. He only needed to be loved and believed in to become a man and leader. He also needed a strong wife...to stand beside him. A weak woman could never have done what I did for our marriage.

 

[bèlla]

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[FreeinChrist]

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