80%

[Ark Guy]

I read this statement on another thread..

A survey in the UK of clergy (anglican, catholic, etc) found that over 80% are in agreement that Adam and Eve were not actual people

These 80% should explain the following:

1) In Luke 3:23-38 a genealogy of Jesus is recorded.
This genealogy ends with God, and just prior to God is the name of Adam.
Now.
If Adam didn't exist, then why is he listed in this genealogy?

2) In the book of Romans, Romans 5:14 to be exact, Adam is mentioned with Moses in a factual statement.
If Adam didn't exist, then why is he mentioned with Moses? Did Moses also not exist?

3) 1CO 15:22 says the following For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Why mention a mythological person with a living Christ?

1CO 15:45 can also have the same question asked about it.

4) The author of Timothy seem to think Adam was real...and created as per Genesis.
1TI 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
Why not the 80%?

5) In the book of Jude we read that Enoch was the seventh from Adam.
like Moses, was Enoch also a myth? If not, why include Adam, a supposed myth with Enoch?

The only reason why the 80% believe that Adam was a mythical being is because they worship evolutionISM and have filtered their bible through its theory. It becomes quite apparent they have absolutly no regard for the Word of God and what it has to say concerning Adam, the real man. The first man. The guy with out a belly button.

 

[Josh1]

Good post arkguy. God Bless.

 

[Chi_Cygni]

[noflame]

jay
cf moderator

 

[Ark Guy]

Oh, so now Chi Cygni is accusing me of being in a cult?

Perhaps YOU Chi, would like to answer the questions.
...or will you run away? hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Chi_Cygni]

Well since I have asked you many questions on your silly science posts, you seldom reply to those.

And yes, I guess I am saying you are probably in a cult.

After all, you are basically criticising 85% or more of the world's Christians. You don't like it when the boot is on the other foot, do you?

Am I wrong?

 

[Ark Guy]

Great response Chi troll.

Will you continue to dodge the question?

Run away?

 

[Katmando]

Great response Chi troll.

Will you continue to dodge the question?

Run away?

Ark guy,

Please do not concern your self with Chi, his actions speak for himself.

I think your heart is in the right place and that is what is important.

Later <><

 

[Ark Guy]

Chi is of no concern.
Chi is on the ignore list.

 

[Reillz]

Hows he gonna answer you now? Personally I believe in an old earth.. but man is only 6000 years old.. that works don't it ? lol

 

[Ark Guy]

Jsut like you Reillz...he wasn't/isn't going to answer.

 

[Ark Guy]

Hmmmm, a strange silence from the theo-evo sect.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

A three hour silence hardly compares with the months of silence on human chromosome 2 and retro-viral insertions from the creation side, but, hey, when did creationists ever stop the pot calling the kettle black?

I read this statement on another thread..

A survey in the UK of clergy (anglican, catholic, etc) found that over 80% are in agreement that Adam and Eve were not actual people

These 80% should explain the following:

1) In Luke 3:23-38 a genealogy of Jesus is recorded.
This genealogy ends with God, and just prior to God is the name of Adam.
Now.
If Adam didn't exist, then why is he listed in this genealogy?

Same reason that Eremhon and Ollamh Folla are mentioned in the genealogies of historical Irish Kings. Same reason that Alfred the Great could trace his ancestry back to Woden. Not hard, is it?

2) In the book of Romans, Romans 5:14 to be exact, Adam is mentioned with Moses in a factual statement.
If Adam didn't exist, then why is he mentioned with Moses? Did Moses also not exist?

Adam fulfills a theological role in Genesis 3. It is within that paradigm that Paul is working. If the paradigm is non-literal (which it is), then Paul can speak of Adam as a person and he still be non-literal.

3) 1CO 15:22 says the following For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Why mention a mythological person with a living Christ?

1CO 15:45 can also have the same question asked about it.

Same reason. If I talk about Heracles and Mike Tyson in the same sentence (hardly likely) does that mean Heracles must be a real person?

4) The author of Timothy seem to think Adam was real...and created as per Genesis.
1TI 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

Same reason. Theological point. You realise non-literalists like me will speak in the same way. It does not mean that we think these were literal people.

5) In the book of Jude we read that Enoch was the seventh from Adam.
like Moses, was Enoch also a myth?

Probably Enoch was mythological. His story seems part of the same corpus of origin myth from which Genesis 1-3 was drawn.

If not, why include Adam, a supposed myth with Enoch?

See above.

The only reason why the 80% believe that Adam was a mythical being is because they worship evolutionISM and have filtered their bible through its theory.

Wrong. They can see reality. They know what scientific endeavour has shown beyond any shadow of doubt. And they know what is actually important and what is not, unlike the creationists who tie faith in God with faith in the literal interpretation of a written text.

It becomes quite apparent they have absolutly no regard for the Word of God and what it has to say concerning Adam, the real man. The first man. The guy with out a belly button.

You have absolutely no regard for the faith of others. You instead prefer to attack their faith directly. What does this say about you?

 

[notto]

The only reason why the 80% believe that Adam was a mythical being is because they worship evolutionISM and have filtered their bible through its theory. It becomes quite apparent they have absolutly no regard for the Word of God and what it has to say concerning Adam, the real man. The first man. The guy with out a belly button.

This is a bold statement and one that I would be interested in you providing evidence for. Can you point to any evidence that these theologians were using evolution as their guide instead of other historical or biblical research on the origins of the Genesis texts?

 

[alehm]

Ark Guy you also forgot to add that the Bible gives how many years Adam lived, along with a couple of his children and their childrens children which throughout the entire bible leads to the birth of Christ and stops.

No where else in the bible is there given actual years lived and a geneology record for a person who never lived.

And then the bible trying to tie Jesus Christ as a descendant of a whole line of people who never existed... well. Bible stories start to look more and more like Greek Mythology around here.
People here have more faith than I do. Heh.

 

[Ark Guy]

So karl Liberal backslider (KLBS) is claiming that Adam was a mythical figure. Hmmmm. Interesting considering that Adam is presented as literal in the bible.(as I have demonstrated) So where is his proof that, and where is it demonstrated in the bible that Adam is a mythical figure?

Of course using his logic....Jesus easily becomes a myth.

According to these evolutionist...Christianity is based upon a myth.
A mythical individual who disobeyed God and fell in a mythical garden....The original sin of Adam and Eve becomes a myth...Jesus died for a myth.

The bible warns us of doing what KLBS claims the historian Luke did when he presented his genealogy. In other words, KLBS claims Luke was guilty when he wrote it.

1TI 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer

1TI 1:4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

KLBS is claiming that the genealogy is a mere myth. He has shown us where Luke has done what the bible tells us not to do. The bottom line, KLBS is teaching false doctrine.

It should be obvious that the bible presents the truth. That is why Luke presented the geneaology as literal and factual.

Of course if you filter your bible through religious evolutionism...you need to TWIST scripture. I just hope that these guys haven't twisted their salvation.

 

[Ark Guy]

Even Noah according the the mythical geneaology sect will claim didn't really exist.

In Hebrews 11 we see Noah listed and held in very high regard with quite a few other mythical people.
People such as Able and Cain, the sons of a myth. Also mentioned are Enoch, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac and Jacob.
Why would the author of Hebrews mix mythical people with historical people? Why did the author of Hebrews present them as literal? Why did the author not tell us they were mythical?

But then again, by faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible....those that follow evolutionISM deny that God formed the universe out of the invisible...they claim evolution and forms of evolution replaced Gods command.
They claim God didn't form man from the dust then Eve from Adams side...despite the bible saying just that.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

So karl Liberal backslider (KLBS) is claiming that Adam was a mythical figure. Hmmmm. Interesting considering that Adam is presented as literal in the bible.(as I have demonstrated)

You have demonstrated no such thing. I on the other hand have demonstrated that it is possible to use mythical figures to teach truth, and often myth and history are intertwined in traditions.

So where is his proof that, and where is it demonstrated in the bible that Adam is a mythical figure?

Can't prove he is. Can't prove he isn't. Let's not claim it's so important shall we?

Of course using his logic....Jesus easily becomes a myth.

No, not really. There are probably mythological elements to the gospels - certainly mythological gospels arose later. But the gospels do not primarily read as myths. Genesis 1-11 does. Moreover, the gospels were written soon after the events they refer to. Genesis 1-11, in the way myths do, refers to a time "long, long ago..."

According to these evolutionist...Christianity is based upon a myth.
A mythical individual who disobeyed God and fell in a mythical garden....The original sin of Adam and Eve becomes a myth...Jesus died for a myth.

Are you really equating "myth" with "falsehood"? Adam is man. Man sins. This is no falsehood. A myth is a story of questionable historicity that is nevertheless a vehicle of profound truth. The truth it communicates is that I'm a sinner - I have made the "choice of Adam", and I need Christ. Christ did not die for a myth, He died for me.

The bible warns us of doing what KLBS claims the historian Luke did when he presented his genealogy. In other words, KLBS claims Luke was guilty when he wrote it.

1TI 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer

1TI 1:4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

KLBS is claiming that the genealogy is a mere myth.

Where does "mere" come into it? Your word, not mine.

He has shown us where Luke has done what the bible tells us not to do. The bottom line, KLBS is teaching false doctrine.

Thank you. Insult me this offensively once more and your post will go straight to the moderators. Have you any idea how insulting and arrogant you seem to be, Ark Guy?

It should be obvious that the bible presents the truth.

And you lie when you suggest I say it isn't true. You seem to have a problem with any truth other than literal and, devoid of any meangingful theological or scientific backing for your extremist fundamentalist position, you resort to personal attacks on other posters' faith.

That is why Luke presented the geneaology as literal and factual.

Of course if you filter your bible through religious evolutionism...you need to TWIST scripture. I just hope that these guys haven't twisted their salvation.

You're now reduced to spiritual blackmail. It's pathetic, absolutely pathetic. You are so arrogant that your way is the only way that those who disagree risk their salvation. Only one man can give or take away salvation, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and my trust is in Him, not your intellectually challenged literal-or-bust interpretations.

 

[TheBear]

*** ADMIN HAT ON ***


Can we please discuss these topics with a modicum of dignity and respect? Hurling insults at each other is not only against our rules, it is very unChristlike. We are not here to bash each other over the heads with our own views and beliefs. Nor are we here to belittle those who don't agree with our views. We are all here as equals, sitting at the round table of discussion. Here, each views and beliefs are just as valid and equal as the others'. Here, we should be able to learn from each other, as brothers and sisters in Christ, to edify others, and be edified by others. If anyone here wants to belittle others, hurl insults, or use this fora as a bully-pulpit or lectern, you are on the wrong website.

So please, let's discuss our differences with an honest attitude to be helpful to others, a willingness to learn from others, and the love of Christ towards each other.


*** ADMIN HAT OFF ***

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

The apostles and Moses, most likely beleived that Adam was a real person. They also likely believed that illness was caused by demons. They also likely believed that the Earth was immobile, flat and rested on pillars - that the sky was solid - that the stars were miniscule and not so far away - and many others things that would come from a litereal interpetation of the bible.

But that does not make them stupid. THey were products of their time. Man has always tried to describe his universe. In the past (like biblical times) man relied on mythology to do this - and it suited man fine. Today, we rely on scientific observation to describe the universe.

Why would the asposltes (or anyone else in those times) have needed to know what a galaxy is, or how far away it is, or how fast light travels? That kind of knowledge would have really been quite frivilous and useless. They were too busy surviving to be bothered with knowing the earth's real age or biochemistry.

Today is different. Today we rely on technology for out survival. Today a mother and expect all of her offspring to reach adulthood - not just one third of them. Today people need to know the universe from a scientific perspective. Today, scientific ingorance will mean less prospects for young people.

 

[seebs]

These 80% should explain the following:

So, the idea is that people who don't believe the Bible is always literal should, by your idea, explain other claims in it, too?

Isn't the answer obvious?

1) In Luke 3:23-38 a genealogy of Jesus is recorded.
This genealogy ends with God, and just prior to God is the name of Adam.
Now.
If Adam didn't exist, then why is he listed in this genealogy?

Because the people of that time traced geneologies back into the mythological portions of the Biible.

2) In the book of Romans, Romans 5:14 to be exact, Adam is mentioned with Moses in a factual statement.
If Adam didn't exist, then why is he mentioned with Moses? Did Moses also not exist?

Because Paul believed in Adam.

3) 1CO 15:22 says the following For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Why mention a mythological person with a living Christ?

Because Adam is an allegory for the sinful nature of humans, and it's very poetic.

4) The author of Timothy seem to think Adam was real...and created as per Genesis.
1TI 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
Why not the 80%?

Because the 80% have information that the author of Timothy didn't.

5) In the book of Jude we read that Enoch was the seventh from Adam.
like Moses, was Enoch also a myth? If not, why include Adam, a supposed myth with Enoch?

I don't know, but I would guess that Enoch was a myth.

The only reason why the 80% believe that Adam was a mythical being is because they worship evolutionISM and have filtered their bible through its theory. It becomes quite apparent they have absolutly no regard for the Word of God and what it has to say concerning Adam, the real man. The first man. The guy with out a belly button.

This is a clear and unambigous violation of the board rule prohibiting calling people non-Christian. Your spiteful, hateful, attitude speaks for itself.