.

[jimmyjimmy]

.

 

[Strong in Him]

These are things that we've heard so many times that we've assumed them true, but are they?

Drop a cliché on us (One per customer please. Don't list 50), and explain why it's wrong.

Here's the first:

"God looks at the heart"

This is true, but not in how it's often used.

What God meant: You can't fool me. I know all, and I see all.

No he didn't. Only half of this verse has been quoted; the full verse is "man looks on the outward appearance but the Lord looks at the heart". The Lord said this to Samuel who had been sent to anoint one of Jesse's sons as king. Samuel saw the first one, who was rugged and handsome, and said "surely the Lord has chosen him". But the Lord said to pay no attention to his looks; he was not the chosen one.

It could indeed be good news that the Lord looks at the heart; it means he doesn't judge us by our outward appearance, outward deeds or rituals of worship. If people can't express themselves properly, sing in tune or "look like" they are Christians; it doesn't matter.

 

[brinny]

God helps those who help themselves.

This is the complete antithesis to what God has said in His Word, from beginning to end.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

.

 

[brinny]

Thanks, Brinny.

Nice to see that you're back to yourself again.

LOL!

Thanks.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Phrase: "Money is the root of all evil"



For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. (1 Timothy 6:10)NIV

Many people are blessed with wealth. But wealth is a tool that is not inherently good or bad. However it is the love of money (aka...greed) is what the scripture is talking about.

 

[98cwitr]

"Ask the Lord into your heart and if you really mean it you are saved."

Matthew 7:21

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

John 3:5-7

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[a] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 15:10-20

10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

There are so many others, but these really strike to the point.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

These are things that we've heard so many times that we've assumed them true, but are they?

Drop a cliché on us (One per customer please. Don't list 50), and explain why it's wrong.

Here's the first:

"God looks at the heart"

This is true, but not in how it's often used.

What God meant: You can't fool me. I know all, and I see all.

How people use it: I know that my son Jack beats his wife, drinks like a fish, and never darkens the doorway of a church, but. . . "God looks at the heart"

What they mean: Jack is a good person - deep down. He's a Christian too.

Why they are wrong: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" ( Jer. 17:9)

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. (Matt 15:9)

It's not good news that "God looks on the heart". It's bad news! There is nothing but sin in a sinners heart.

But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the Lord hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the Lord hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that which the Lord commanded thee. (1 Samuel 13:14)
.
But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart. (1 Samuel 16:7)
.
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (Matthew 21:43)
.
That's what it means ... and it's why there isn't one group everyone belongs to in christianity.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Phrase: "Money is the root of all evil"



For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. (1 Timothy 6:10)NIV

Many people are blessed with wealth. But wealth is a tool that is not inherently good or bad. However it is the love of money (aka...greed) is what the scripture is talking about.

You are correct in your observation about wealth being a tool that is not inherently good or bad. However, the scripture instructs many things ... and the Pharisees who loved being wealthy didn't appreciate Jesus' speech placing sharp division between the activity of devoting yourself to becoming wealthy and devoting yourself to a life of worship towards God. There are a number of warnings about trusting in uncertain wealth and even being in a position of being wealthy where others suffer and that you do nothing. Wealth is actually presented as a spiritual handicap in the scriptures.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

“Hedge of Protection”

Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. (Job 1:10) seems to be the most relevant passage. Other passages talk about God taking a "hedge" away.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

"Ask the Lord into your heart and if you really mean it you are saved."

Matthew 7:21

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

John 3:5-7

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[a] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 15:10-20

10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

There are so many others, but these really strike to the point.

I don't really believe in paying God back for his gift, because it cannot be done, but I agree the cliche you mentioned is flimsy in theology. Only God can really tell who has been born again and who has not been born again, God knows who are his.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The cliche I dislike the most is the one that says you can withdraw from the heavenly bank account. totally misses the point.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=with...&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=BVh2V_TQH6KsjwSWrZnYDQ

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. (Job 1:10) seems to be the most relevant passage. Other passages talk about God taking a "hedge" away.

You do realize that you're quoting Satan, right?

Secondly, they way that people us the term is where the error lies. They say/pray it like it's a magic protection from all harm, which is nowhere promised.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You do realize that you're quoting Satan, right?

Secondly, they way that people us the term is where the error lies. They say/pray it like it's a magic protection from all harm, which is nowhere promised.

Yeah, using the bible like a spell book is kind of blasphemous. God doesn't have to do what you say because it is written.

 

[W2L]

Phrase: "Money is the root of all evil"



For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. (1 Timothy 6:10)NIV

Many people are blessed with wealth. But wealth is a tool that is not inherently good or bad. However it is the love of money (aka...greed) is what the scripture is talking about.

THe idea that a person can be rich, and not love money at the same time, seems wrong. If they didnt love money then they would not be rich. This is especially true for a Christian because they are taught to help those who are needy. THere is no shortage of poor people who need help. Its actually denial to say that rich people don't necessarily love money. Its like a drug addict saying they are not addicted, and can quit any time they want to.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Was not Job blessed with wealth because of his righteousness? When Solomon asked for wisdom, was it not God who blessed him with not only wisdom, but wealth and power also? Was not Abraham blessed with enormous wealth? Wealth is not evil and when given by God it is a blessing and a tool that should be used to bring God glory and fulfill His purpose. When someone loves money more than God, that person will use that wealth to "eat, drink, and be merry". But if that person loves God and recognizes that their wealth is a blessing from God, that person would seek to uses that gift for the purpose that God intended. The key difference is contentment.

Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.” Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?” Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.” And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’ “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” ’ “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’ “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”
Luke 12:13‭-‬21 NIV

Here is an article that I believe will be useful:

The apostle Paul, in his first letter to his young disciple, Timothy, had this to say: “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs” (1 Timothy 6:10). Now this verse is often misquoted as saying, “Money is the root of all evil.” Notice how “money” is substituted for “love of money” and “the root of all evil” is substituted for “a root of all kinds of evil.” These changes, while subtle, have an enormous impact on the meaning of the verse.

The misquoted version (“money is the root of all evil”) makes money and wealth the source (or root) of all evil in the world. This is clearly false. The Bible makes it quite clear that sin is the root of all evil in the world (Matthew 15:19; Romans 5:12; James 1:15). However, when we reflect upon the correct citation of this verse, we see that it is the love of money, not money itself, that is a source of all different kinds of trouble and evil. Wealth is morally neutral; there is nothing wrong with money, in and of itself, or the possession of money. However, when money begins to control us, that’s when trouble starts.

With that said, let’s consider the question before us: Why is the love of money a root of all kinds of evil? To help us answer this, we must look at the passage in its greater context. Near the end of the letter (1 Timothy 6:2–10), Paul is exhorting Timothy regarding the need to “teach and urge these things” to his congregation, “these things” referring back to earlier material in the epistle. Paul then warns Timothy about false teachers who will seek to warp and pervert the content of sound doctrine for their own greedy gain (verses 3–5). Now notice what the apostle says at the end of verse 5: “Imagining that godliness is a means of gain.” These false teachers do what they do for the fame and notoriety they achieve, along with the financial rewards it brings.

Paul wants to steer Timothy away from that trap. In doing so, he tells him the real source of “great gain;” namely, godliness with true contentment (verse 6). Contentment, in a biblical sense, is the recognition that we come into the world with nothing and that everything we have is a gift from God’s hands (verses 7–8). Yet those who desire to be rich (i.e., those who have the “love of money”) are the ones who are led into temptation and fall into a snare (verse 9). Paul concludes the passage by telling Timothy that the love of money leads to all sorts of sin and evil.

Simple reflection on this principle will confirm that it is true. Greed causes people to do all sorts of things they wouldn’t normally do. Watch any number of TV courtroom dramas, and the crime under consideration is usually motivated by jealousy or greed, or both. The love of money is what motivates people to lie, steal, cheat, gamble, embezzle, and even murder. People who have a love for money lack the godliness and contentment that is true gain in God’s eyes.

But the Bible makes an even stronger statement about the love of money. What we have discussed thus far simply describes the horizontal level of the love of money. In other words, we have only mentioned how the love of money can lead one to commit greater sins against his fellow man. But the Bible makes quite clear that all sin is ultimately against God’s holy character (Psalm 51:5). We need to consider the vertical dimension to the love of money.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said, “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money” (Matthew 6:24). This verse comes at the end of a passage in which Jesus tells us to “lay up treasures in heaven” (v. 19). Here, Jesus likens a “love of money” to idolatry. He refers to money as a “master” we serve at the expense of serving God. We are commanded by God to have “no other gods” before the only true and living God (Exodus 20:3; the first commandment). Anything that takes first place in our lives other than our Creator God is an idol and makes us guilty of breaking the first commandment.

Jesus had much to say about wealth. His most memorable conversation about money is His encounter with the rich young ruler (Matthew 19:16–30). The young man asks Jesus what he must do to obtain eternal life, and Jesus tells him to follow the commandments. When the man tells Jesus that he has done all that, Jesus tests his ability to obey the first commandment and tells him to sell all his possessions and give it to the poor and to follow Him. The young man couldn’t do this; his wealth had become an idol—it was his master!

After this encounter, Jesus turns to His disciples and says, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:23–24). This is a hard saying, especially for 21st-century people living in North America. Jesus is saying that wealth is one of the biggest obstacles to coming to faith in Christ. The reason is obvious: wealth becomes a slave master in our lives and drives us to do all sorts of things that drive us further and further away from God. The good news is that what is impossible for man, entering into the Kingdom of God, is possible with God (Matthew 19:26).

http://www.gotquestions.org/love-money-root-evil.html

 

[BrianJK]

Let's see if I can get both sides of the fence to disagree with me at the same time...

There are two cliches regarding speaking in tongues. One says that it's a necessary sign for all believers who are baptized in the Holy Spirit, and the other says it doesn't happen at all and all modern reports of it are either acting or demonic.

But...

1 Cor 12:8-10 shows us that while some were given the gift of tongues, others were given other gifts instead.

"To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the discernment of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues."

And 1 Cor 14:39 is a direct instruction to the church not to forbid speaking in tongues.

I'd guess that the vast majority of American churches either teach that everyone must speak in tongues to be a full Christian or they forbid the practice altogether. Those would be the clichés, yet both seem to defy Scripture.

 

[W2L]

Was not Job blessed with wealth because of his righteousness? When Solomon asked for wisdom, was it not God who blessed him with not only wisdom, but wealth and power also? Was not Abraham blessed with enormous wealth? Wealth is not evil and when given by God it is a blessing and a tool that should be used to bring God glory and fulfill His purpose. When someone loves money more than God, that person will use that wealth to "eat, drink, and be merry". But if that person loves God and recognizes that their wealth is a blessing from God, that person would seek to uses that gift for the purpose that God intended. The key difference is contentment.

Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.” Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?” Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.” And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’ “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” ’ “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’ “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”
Luke 12:13‭-‬21 NIV

Here is an article that I believe will be useful:

The apostle Paul, in his first letter to his young disciple, Timothy, had this to say: “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs” (1 Timothy 6:10). Now this verse is often misquoted as saying, “Money is the root of all evil.” Notice how “money” is substituted for “love of money” and “the root of all evil” is substituted for “a root of all kinds of evil.” These changes, while subtle, have an enormous impact on the meaning of the verse.

The misquoted version (“money is the root of all evil”) makes money and wealth the source (or root) of all evil in the world. This is clearly false. The Bible makes it quite clear that sin is the root of all evil in the world (Matthew 15:19; Romans 5:12; James 1:15). However, when we reflect upon the correct citation of this verse, we see that it is the love of money, not money itself, that is a source of all different kinds of trouble and evil. Wealth is morally neutral; there is nothing wrong with money, in and of itself, or the possession of money. However, when money begins to control us, that’s when trouble starts.

With that said, let’s consider the question before us: Why is the love of money a root of all kinds of evil? To help us answer this, we must look at the passage in its greater context. Near the end of the letter (1 Timothy 6:2–10), Paul is exhorting Timothy regarding the need to “teach and urge these things” to his congregation, “these things” referring back to earlier material in the epistle. Paul then warns Timothy about false teachers who will seek to warp and pervert the content of sound doctrine for their own greedy gain (verses 3–5). Now notice what the apostle says at the end of verse 5: “Imagining that godliness is a means of gain.” These false teachers do what they do for the fame and notoriety they achieve, along with the financial rewards it brings.

Paul wants to steer Timothy away from that trap. In doing so, he tells him the real source of “great gain;” namely, godliness with true contentment (verse 6). Contentment, in a biblical sense, is the recognition that we come into the world with nothing and that everything we have is a gift from God’s hands (verses 7–8). Yet those who desire to be rich (i.e., those who have the “love of money”) are the ones who are led into temptation and fall into a snare (verse 9). Paul concludes the passage by telling Timothy that the love of money leads to all sorts of sin and evil.

Simple reflection on this principle will confirm that it is true. Greed causes people to do all sorts of things they wouldn’t normally do. Watch any number of TV courtroom dramas, and the crime under consideration is usually motivated by jealousy or greed, or both. The love of money is what motivates people to lie, steal, cheat, gamble, embezzle, and even murder. People who have a love for money lack the godliness and contentment that is true gain in God’s eyes.

But the Bible makes an even stronger statement about the love of money. What we have discussed thus far simply describes the horizontal level of the love of money. In other words, we have only mentioned how the love of money can lead one to commit greater sins against his fellow man. But the Bible makes quite clear that all sin is ultimately against God’s holy character (Psalm 51:5). We need to consider the vertical dimension to the love of money.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said, “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money” (Matthew 6:24). This verse comes at the end of a passage in which Jesus tells us to “lay up treasures in heaven” (v. 19). Here, Jesus likens a “love of money” to idolatry. He refers to money as a “master” we serve at the expense of serving God. We are commanded by God to have “no other gods” before the only true and living God (Exodus 20:3; the first commandment). Anything that takes first place in our lives other than our Creator God is an idol and makes us guilty of breaking the first commandment.

Jesus had much to say about wealth. His most memorable conversation about money is His encounter with the rich young ruler (Matthew 19:16–30). The young man asks Jesus what he must do to obtain eternal life, and Jesus tells him to follow the commandments. When the man tells Jesus that he has done all that, Jesus tests his ability to obey the first commandment and tells him to sell all his possessions and give it to the poor and to follow Him. The young man couldn’t do this; his wealth had become an idol—it was his master!

After this encounter, Jesus turns to His disciples and says, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:23–24). This is a hard saying, especially for 21st-century people living in North America. Jesus is saying that wealth is one of the biggest obstacles to coming to faith in Christ. The reason is obvious: wealth becomes a slave master in our lives and drives us to do all sorts of things that drive us further and further away from God. The good news is that what is impossible for man, entering into the Kingdom of God, is possible with God (Matthew 19:26).

http://www.gotquestions.org/love-money-root-evil.html

I believe it was John who said that if a brother has the means to help another brother who is needy, but does not help him, then the love of God is not in that person, or it is not seen in that person perhaps. In this age of internet and other media, we see many people suffering all over the world. The need is so great that it would outweigh the wealth of even the richest man on earth. Im not the judge and i seriously try not to judge, and i dont trust my own judgment anyway. I try to stay neutral on many things for that reason. So im not judging, but i am saying that i don't believe, in my personal opinion, that a rich Christian can justify their wealth. THey can use old testament scriptures to justify wealth, but they cannot escape Johns words found in the new testament. Likewise Christ said that many will say to him that they did many works in his name, but he will say that he never knew them. Maybe its not about how many people a person helps, but instead it could be about the ones they didnt help.

 

[FireDragon76]

What they mean: Jack is a good person - deep down. He's a Christian too.

Why they are wrong: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" ( Jer. 17:9)

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. (Matt 15:9)

It's not good news that "God looks on the heart". It's bad news! There is nothing but sin in a sinners heart.

This sounds rather extreme. The truth is we don't have only bad things in our hearts. Hopefully, God puts good desires there.